The Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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  3. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, but now the Repubs will do EVERYTHING in their power to ensure that Obamacare (ACA) fails. They are predicting a failure and they will make it happen.

    Do you ever get the feeling that this country is turning to shit? That we're riding that last turd that is swirling around the bowl. Headin' down!!!

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  5. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Republicans have been trying to sink Obamacare for 8 years. There is nothing new in that. But if they screw with it now, they know there will be hell to pay. It will become Trumpcare very quickly, and I don't think that's something they want to do as evidenced by the last few days.

    I think you are too negative if you think the country is turning to shit. Every generation has had its troubles and challenges. While Trump and his Republican rabble are a disgrace, there is still much good about the country. We need to rely upon our institutions. They have always served us well, and we need to be vigilant and tireless in our defense of this country.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
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  7. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    I hope you're right. Yeah, I'm a pessimist at heart and figure that people will fail me -- and our country. The problem is that I'm right too often . . . .

    Anyhow, thanks for the pep talk.

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  8. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    but he was going to organize a special prosecutor to work towards the ultimate arrest and jail of Hillary..
    I am confident that if he had even the slightest chance of getting her jailed he would take it.. but he hasn't. In fact I am surprised Hillary hasn't called him on it. The hatred he generated towards Hillary without any apparent justification was staggering. He should be made/held accountable by having to front up the evidence that he said he had to prosecute her and be proven the liar he is...
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Fomenting Hillaryhate has been a Republican campaign standard for decades - since 1992, at least.

    The only thing Trump was doing - ever - is saying the things that get the votes of the well-primed, propaganda-isolated, tee-set Republican electoral base. Trying to hold him accountable for some kind of meaning or logic or implication in what he said is like trying to sue Coors because their beer isn't made in the wilderness using water from mountain streams.
     
  10. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe we're criticizing the wrong POTUS - we should be discussing FOX...

    The Unfairness Doctrine will be Emperor Trump’s greatest legacy because it’s totes unfair to blame him for anything he repeats from the Fox “News” Channel. As he told TIME Magazine in his most deranged interview yet:

    A: Why do you say that I have to apologize? I’m just quoting the newspaper, just like I quoted the judge the other day, Judge Napolitano, I quoted Judge Napolitano, just like I quoted Bret Baier, I mean Bret Baier mentioned the word wiretap. Now he can now deny it, or whatever he is doing, you know. But I watched Bret Baier, and he used that term. I have a lot of respect for Judge Napolitano, and he said that three sources have told him things that would make me right. I don’t know where he has gone with it since then. But I’m quoting highly respected people from highly respected television networks.

    Q: But traditionally people in your position in the Oval Office have not said things unless they can verify they are true.

    A: Well, I’m not, well, I think, I’m not saying, I’m quoting, Michael, I’m quoting highly respected people and sources from major television networks.​

    Got that? The buck stops elsewhere. At Fox.
    http://www.politicususa.com/2017/03/24/friday-fox-follies-unfairness-doctrine.html
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    well then Trump should at least attribute and reference the allegation properly at the time of making it...
     
  12. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sorry - I'm just totally unable to resist doing a karenmansker here - HAHAHAHA!

    He is constitutionally incapable of being honest - he's a full blown, end stage alcoholic without the alcohol.

    Trump Lies About His Dishonesty And Oh, Boy Does He Get Busted

    In an interview published yesterday in Time magazine, Donald Trump defended his administration by saying, ‘I’m President, and you’re not.’ While true, his being president doesn’t imply what he thinks it implies.

    And it’s a childish defense, the sort of thing you’d hear on a playground. Trump claimed,

    “I’m a very instinctual person, but my instinct turns out to be right. Hey, look, in the meantime, I guess I can’t be doing so badly, because I’m President, and you’re not.”

    Poorer logic is difficult to imagine. Which might explain some of Donald Trump’s many mistakes, and why he thinks he never makes them. In fact, as a Ryan Lizza tweet reveals, a House Freedom Caucus source said of Trump’s understanding of healthcare, “He seems to neither get the politics nor the policy of this.”

    Hard to be right when you don’t know what you’re talking about, and then lie about it.
    http://www.politicususa.com/2017/03/24/trump-lies-about-dishonesty-get-busted.html
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The money quote, imho.

    If Trump aims at further destroying credibility in the major media, that quote takes on a lethality the superficial dismissal as lies or buckpassing or whatever overlooks. Because it perfectly wrongfoots its major media critics - having provided thirty years of platforms for liars and bullshit purveyors, presented as respectable and without differentiation from those with allegiance to facts as well as personal integrity, how can they handle something like that? Trump is correct - he is in fact quoting highly "respected" sources from the "respectable" major media. It's a tar baby - the harder the respectable media hits Trump for granting credibility to the respectable media, the worse they get tarred.

    And in the view of his base, Fox is the last semi-reliable mass market political news source left - when it goes, there's only Trump himself and his minions.
     
  14. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    Doesn't this look like your eight-year old nephew when placed behind the steering wheel of a "really big truck"? Oh my . . . it is an eight-year old!

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  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I don't doubt your belief is correct. One of the reasons Trump hasn't appointed a special prosecutor is because he knows his assertions were bullshit. But in the past, Republicans haven't really cared how bogus their assertions are. Over the course over the last 2 decades Republicans have accused Hillary of everything from simple malfeasance to serial murder with no evidence. They hired 3 special prosecutors to pursue Hillary and her husband in the 90s. When each special prosecutor found nothing, they hired another. Republicans wouldn't take no for an answer, and they haven't been willing to take no for an answer.

    Republicans aren't bothered by lying when it benefits them. They do it all the time.

    I think the real reason is it's a double edged sword now, and it's no longer to his advantage. Hillary is no longer a political threat. And a special prosecutor would draw more attention to his own criminal problems, and Trump doesn't want or need any additional scandal. He's already overwhelmed with scandal. Appointing an special prosecutor to prosecute Hillary with no evidence would further weaken Trump politically. That's why he hasn't done it.

    Trump is so weak politically, he needs all the help he can get. He has screwed up so much, he needs all the help he can get. There was one bright spot yesterday. Trump appeared to offer to work with Democrats.

    Trump isn't in control of his own party. There are 3 factions of the Republican Party: the Trumpers (majority), the Tea Party (hardliners), and the moderates. The reason Trumpcare failed was because he couldn't garner support from the hardliners and he needs them in order to get anything through Congress on a party line vote. The hardliners are so extreme, it makes them essentially useless to Trump if he wants to fulfill his agenda. Trump needs Democrats.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
  16. DrKrettin Registered Senior Member

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    Surely this is the first Dunning-Kruger President, the SCROTUS (so-called ruler of the US).
     
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  17. geordief Registered Senior Member

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    Should Democrats facilitate this President ? Is he not beyond the pale?

    Clearly they have to vote for proposed policies that they judge are good (if they are on offer) and opposition for the sake of opposition is a fool's game.

    Again opposition that appears willful will garner him support in some quarters (although it didn't appear to too much in Obama's case).

    I am sure these issues will be blindingly obvious to the Democrats if DT does attempt to get their support on a case by case basis.
     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Fundamentally different electoral base, media treatment, overall agenda, etc. There's no symmetry. Also, the Dems have no control over the appearance (to the Republican base) of anything they do - they cannot oppose anything without their opposition "appearing" however the Republican media operations wish to have it appear, in the eyes of the Republican base. They have no means of communication with that faction of the electorate.

    And the libertarian left,

    despite its apparent ideological fit with, and intellectual representation of, the majority of the American population,

    lacks channel not only to that faction but to a large proportion of the remaining public. So the collective opposition to the Republican coup is variously and separately isolated itself.

    This isn't two sides - it's a fascist movement, vs everybody else. "Opposition" here is not symmetrical - defending governance and attacking governance are fundamentally different roles.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Could all this "extremism" be because voter turnout is so small as a percentage of USA citizens above the age of 18? ( note: I am not referring to "eligibility" but more about the serious lack of representative government)
    Where-by the electoral system is hijacked by extreme interest groups?
     
  20. geordief Registered Senior Member

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    I would anticipate that "fascist " would need to be defined. It often crops up that people use the term loosely.

    Since it cannot now be used in its historical sense I guess you might be happy with the term "fascistoid"?

    Aside from that , I would perhaps share your view but I don't feel that "fascistoids " have the decisive upper hand even if they are seemingly close to the levers of power .

    What I fear is that a turn of events may allow them to foment civil unrest and also perhaps a de facto coup d'etat.

    Their incompetence leads one to assume this may not happen and that ,if they have broken the law this may now be their high water mark.

    It is too early for me to be confident about that. How many Americans see this as a real threat and how many would welcome " rough justice" ?
     
  21. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    That is VERY good! Your own?

    May I borrow it? Could become a "meme"......
     
  22. DrKrettin Registered Senior Member

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    I'm afraid I pinched the SCROTUS bit from elsewhere - I had to share it. Please help yourself.
     
  23. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    ObamaCare was designed to fail. The original log term goal of the Democrats was single payer or government run health care system. ObamaCare was stepping stone, which Hillary was supposed to rescue and turn not a government program. The problem with this master plan, was Trump was elected and he is free market. Trump will paint the designed failure in the wrong light. The lack of vote for the proposed Republican plan will turn out good for Trump, since he will not own the failure of ObamaCare.

    Trump has the difficult situation of being a Washington outsider. All the main street media is against him and never reports anything good. This same media fawned over Obama to where his boots never needed polishing. Fox is now the only main news outlet that is favorable to Trump. This is mostly due to the lopsided coverage of the main stream media. FOX was not always in Trump's corner but took his side against all the bullies.

    The Democratic wiretapping of president elect Trump is going to be the turning point, since all the gamers behind the media assault are going to be helped to account. The media will not be able to ignore this and keep reporting gamer propaganda. My guess is this will be traced back to Obama, who will then pass it off to the Clintons. This is bigger than Watergate and will take down many insiders and even some of the media moguls. Trump is a nice guy and may make a deal to show mercy to the scoundrels. I am not sure they will take the deal, so he may play rough.
     

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