The Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. Kristoffer Giant Hyrax Valued Senior Member

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    Do you ever get tired of spouting nonsense, wellwisher?
     
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    He will be known for failing to 'close the deal', since he not only touted himself as a brilliant negotiator, but also having stated that Obama Care will be repealed and replaced with something better. He will be known for not only having failed to repeal and replace, but also known for having failed to do so with a majority in Congress and the Senate, not to mention having a Republican controlled White House. Even worse, he will be known for openly crowing to people about Obama Care failing, which would lead to suffering of the American public. In short, he will be forever known as being a failure, who failed to negotiate with his own party when said party had full control of the Government, to provide something the Republicans have been demanding and promising for years now and were still not able to do when it was in their power to do so, not to mention he will be forever known as the President who was happy and openly hoping for the suffering of the American populace and those who need the most help. What is even more astounding is that he gave up after 20 days and has now decided to just move on. This makes him a terrible leader and President and it shows he does not have the ability to stick to anything that may be hard or prove to be a challenge.

    This will go south even more, if he and the Republicans then go out of their way to ensure Obama Care's failure just so he can gloat, then he will also be known for that too.

    This is not a win for Trump. There is no way that you or he can spin this to his advantage. He has shown he has no ability to lead, that his promises were mere empty words and that he will fail to deliver or stick to anything that might prove even slightly challenging. The Republicans have shown that they are liars and charlatans who are unable to do as they promised for 7 years, even with a full majority of the branches of Government. They no longer have anyone to blame but themselves. And it shows.

    Trump touted his position as a Washington outsider and claimed it was to his benefit, that it was his business acumen that would allow him to lead the party and 'get things done' because he knows how to negotiate good deals. Obviously, everyone now knows he was completely full of shit. He has shown that he is hopeless. He claimed to surround himself with the "best people", when it is clear they never were and are not.

    It still does not excuse the fact that Trump made a bunch of promises that he is not able to keep. Even the far right media have turned on him because he has shown himself to be a fraud. Fox is partially friendly, but that is only because the likes of Hannity just about pees his pants at the mere mention of Trump. Others on Fox have not been so forgiving. To wit, you can only hope to fool people for a certain number of time before the truth is revealed and what has been made clear over the last few weeks is that Trump lied through his teeth and is still lying and is simply unable to claim responsibility for any of it.

    There is absolutely no evidence that Obama "wiretapped" Trump. If you are going to make that claim, I would suggest you provide proof of "wiretapping".

    Trump is the one who made that claim and has been unable to provide any evidence of any wrongdoing. His lackey on the Intelligence Committee then embarrassed himself and the party by claiming to have proof and then having to walk it back when it was clear that he did not have any proof.

    The Republicans are no longer in opposition and instead of getting things done, they are instead starting fires everywhere, making slanderous and libelous accusations against others to try to distract people from their own failures.

    Blaming the media is just a way to distract from the fact that they are failures and are unable to lead in any way, shape or form.

    When pro Trump intelligence agencies come out and say he is wrong and there was no wire tapping, there is no propaganda. Trump brought this onto himself. And now he and those who voted for it must live with it. He has no one else to blame but himself for his failures and attempting to point his short stumpy fingers at everyone else, just makes him look like a petulant child.
     
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  5. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    And your evidence is where? Oh, that's right, you don't need or want evidence. You live in the world where if Trump said it, its true. Well unfortunately for you and those like you, that's not the real world where most of us live.

    If the majority of Democrats wanted a single payer system, they could have passed it instead of Obamacare. Why did they need a stepping stone? If what you said were true, they could have gone straight to single payer. What value does Obamacare offer in your machination?

    And just what makes you think Trump is a free marketer? Do you not realize Trump is the most protectionist president we have seen in almost a century? Trump supports border taxes. He has advocated trade wars. Those aren't by any stretch "free market" positions. You need to stop mindlessly believing everything a right wing entertainer tells you.

    The failure of Trumpcare is a mixed bag for Trump. It's good in that it lessens the chance Democrats will take over Congress in 2018. It's bad because his inability to get his signature legislation through a Congress, which his party controls, together with his prior failures, makes Trump appear impotent. It damages his already damaged credibility.

    Didn't Trump run on the claim that he was an insider and knew how the system worked? That's why he and he alone was qualified to fix the system? The traditional mainstream media reports the truth. Now just because the truth favors one candidate or the other, that doesn't mean the traditional mainstream media is biased. Unlike Fox News and right wing entertainment, it's not the job of the traditional mainstream media to ensure one candidate or one party always gets a positive spin and the Democratic candidate always get negative spins.

    By the way, Fox News was always in Trump's corner. Trump and the management of Fox News have long shared the same bed. Trump has been and remains on very good terms with the management at Fox News. Fox News's former CEO served on Trump's campaign team. He helped Trump prepare for the debates and has long been and remains Trump's friend. The truth matters comrade.

    Well, here is the thing Wellwisher, the directors of the NSA and the FBI have both debunked your, i.e. Trump's allegation of Democratic wiretapping while testifying under oath before Congress. And both you and Trump have zero evidence to support Trump's assertion that Obama bugged his phones. And all of your baseless conspiracies will not change the fact that your allegations are lies. They don't even make sense; yet you mindlessly believe them because Trump, who is a pathological liar, told you so.

    What is more likely is Trump gets impeached by a Republican congress. Trump is under investigation by the FBI for collusion with the Russians in their effort to subvert our electoral process. And then their is the prospect Trump will be eventually charged with violating the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and the Emoluments Clause of the US Constitution. Trump has and continues to do business with many seedy characters around the globe. Trump's conflicts of interests are legion. Unlike your wiretapping allegations, those aren't unfounded issues. Those are real issues and under real investigations with real evidence.

    Yes, this is bigger than Watergate. And like Watergate, a Republican president is the center of the investigations and corruption. No other POTUS has colluded with a hostile foreign power to subvert our electoral processes. Facts matter comrade Wellwisher.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  7. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    douwd20 likes this.
  8. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    Oh, you mean when the pig-breath health insurance companies start to bail out of the exchanges because they just might not make the profits that they want? They aren't satisfied with half a fortune -- they want the whole enchilada. Nothing less.

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  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    CNN has reported Flynn's lawyer has sent a letter to Congress seeking immunity from prosecution for his testimony. Flynn’s looking for a plea deal. Well, isn't that interesting. The rats are jumping ship; 60 days in and the rats are jumping ship. The first rat usually gets the better deal.

    It's a bit funny in a sad sort of way, it wasn't that long ago that Flynn was leading chants of "lock her up" at Trump rallies. It’s a bit ironic that he could well be the one who gets locked up.

    I'm of 2 minds here. On the one had, I would love to see him take the 5th before Congress, on the other, I'd like to hear what he has to say.
     
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  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    It appears Trump has managed to stop the House investigation. Now he only has two more to go, the FBI investigation and the Senate investigation. The House is probably the easiest investigation for Trump to stop. The other 2 investigations will be a bit more difficult as he has less control over the Senate and FBI.

    The Senate has declined Flynn's offer to testify under a grant of immunity. That doesn't bode well for either Flynn or Trump. That could mean they may have enough evidence without Flynn's testimony.

    As time goes on we keep learning the money Flynn received from Russia keeps growing. A few days ago it was 67,000 dollars; now it's well over a 100,000 dollars. And he failed to disclose the money as required by law. Who knows how much money he actually received from Russia and what he did to earn it.

    Flynn is probably a little nervous right about now and for good reasons. Putin's men who participated in the effort to get Trump elected are turning up dead all over the place. Flynn may be on Putin's list, and then he has to worry about prosecution in the US. Flynn could lose his very generous military pension if convicted of treason, not to mention his freedom. I suppose he cold flee to Russia. I'm sure his buddy Putin would love to have him, but Flynn could lose his life there as Putin's other conspirators have. Now that Flynn has been exposed, he is of little value to Putin. Flynn has become more of a liability than an asset to Putin. I think Flynn's smart enough to figure that out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Tend to think that because Flynn's testimony has little credibility due to his history of mental health issues that his request for immunity is more likely irrelevant than anything else. Paranoid conspiracy theorists don't look good when testifying...
     
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not aware of any mental health issues with respect to Flynn. He is certainly, at a minimum, guilty of acts of moral turpitude probably much more. But he is a flag officer in the US Army. So he ain't that crazy.
     
  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I am not so confident...
     
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Keep in mind he was forced to retire after a huge career, one year earlier than scheduled. A general with no doubt huge privileged access to intelligence info. A person doesn't retire after 30 odd years early with out some major reasons generating the need. My guess he was demonstrating an inability to be trusted as he needed to be, to be effective, and had to go. Like Trump, impulsivity being the main concern.

    "On April 30, 2014, Flynn announced his retirement effective later that year, about a year earlier than he had been scheduled to leave his position. He was reportedly effectively forced out of the DIA after clashing with superiors over his allegedly chaotic management style and vision for the agency.[21][22][23][24] In a private e-mail that was leaked online, Colin Powell said that he had heard in the DIA (apparently from later DIA director Vincent R. Stewart) that Flynn got fired because he was "abusive with staff, didn't listen, worked against policy, bad management, etc."[23] According to The New York Times, Flynn exhibited a loose relationship with facts, leading his subordinates to refer to Flynn's repeated dubious assertions as "Flynn facts".[25]" wiki

    Loose association with reality, Flynn's facts etc.. reeks of serious paranoia thus questionable judgement..IMO
    Meaning that even today his "facts" may still be manufactured realty...thus lacking in credibility...
     
  16. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Another way to look at this is, Flynn he was the victim of an illegal wire tap by the Democrats. America citizens are not supposed to be revealed on international surveillance. Guilty or not guilty, the evidence was obtained illegality, thereby making him innocent in the eyes of the law. Trump was advised to cut Flynn loose, at the time, since Flynn had become a negative propaganda tool for the Democrats via fake news.

    Now Trump is supporting Flynn to testify because both were innocent of the fake news. The Democrats would not have tried to take Flynn out, if he was not a threat. Flynn needs immunity because the Democrats are scammers and will try to trick him into a perjury charge, using convoluted questioning. This perjury scam goes back to Scooter Libby, who was known to be innocent, but who was entrapped by the Democrats, for something unrelated using convoluted questions. Libby ended up in jail, for nothing. With immunity, truth can get out without having to worry about Democrats criminals running another scam.

    Below is from the Washington Post, which is a Democrat party propaganda newspaper. They have taken a second look at the Democrat party injustice to Libby. Flynn and Trump are not biting and don;t to play into that scam. With immunity, Flynn can make this interesting and accuse his accusers of lying.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...oter-libby-conviction/?utm_term=.3b30278d7a86
     
  17. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    It has been quite some time since I read a post with so many Straw Man attacks, congrats. :golf clap:

    "Change the subject - NOW!!!" only works until the majority of viewers recognize the strategy and quit biting. Being able to place video from last year next to video from this year featuring the same cast of characters talking out of the other side of their mouths makes me feel as though I have fallen into the Twilight Zone or something.

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    This mornings ABC news said Flynn's unreported Russian money income was more than $150,000 USD. The point about Putin's associates leaving this continuum is a good reason for him to squeal too.

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  18. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Flynn took himself out by lying to his boss...
    Why is it you always put aide the fact that the person has actually done something to screw up?

    This whole USA BS comes from having an imbecile as POTUS and not a lot to do with the Democrats...If the republicans had put up a decent POTUS then we wouldn't be watching endless crap on daily news.
     
  19. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    From the point of view of the anti-globalist camp, there seems to be another sign of some change in foreign policy in comparison with the Obama administration. It was said that "Assad must go" is no longer the priority of US policy in Syria.

    Of course, it is far from clear if this leads to consequences in reality - last but not least, the war in Syria against Assad was a war of the CIA, the deep state, an unofficial war. And it is far from clear if the deep state cares about what Trump or the official government says. So, the support of terrorists may continue as well without any modification.

    On the other hand, there seem to be some changes on the ground too. The US airforce flies attacks against Al Qaida in Idlib, and has supported the Assad forces against Daesh in Palmyra. This is something new, which has not happened in Obama time. So, there is some hope. But one cannot be sure. What the army has done, and what the CIA has done, have been different things in Syria.
     
  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Except, that isn't true Wellwisher. I know from your past posts that you have no regard for truth, fact, or reason. But unfortunately for you and those of your ilk they matter. Now if you have proof Flynn was the "victim of an illegal wire tap by Democrats", now is the time to show it. Flynn was caught lying to the vice president. Then it was discovered he was acting as a foreign agent and had not disclosed that fact as he was required by law to do. Then it was discovered that he had accepted huge sums of money from Russia which he also failed to disclose as he is required to do.

    Trump's lie to the vice president was discovered by US counter intelligence operations, that up until that time, had nothing to do with Flynn. Now you and your Republican cohorts may not like it, but the US has long conducted counter intelligence operations against foreign agents operating in the US and especially against Russian spies operating in the US. That's how Flynn's lie was discovered. He called the Russian ambassador whose line was tapped. Flynn's phones weren't being tapped. Now Flynn's phones may very well be tapped, because there is probable cause to do so. The unfortunate fact for you is Flynn's phones were not tapped, much less illegally tapped. Facts matte;, the truth matters Comrade Wellwisher.

    Well, here is the deal, this wasn't international surveillance and there is no evidence that any evidence has been illegally obtained. Now if you have any evidence to the contrary, now is the time to show it. But thus far, there is no evidence to suggest any evidence has been illegally obtained. It's those damn facts again which keep bitting you and those of your ilk in the ass.

    You mean like Republicans did with Hillary Clinton and her staff? The fact is both Trump and Flynn said that if you aren't guilty there is no reason to seek an immunity deal. Now, a few months later, Flynn is seeking a immunity deal. So if what both Trump and Flynn said about immunity deals a few months ago is true, Flynn has just admitted guilt. Because he is now seeking an immunity deal. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...bly-committed-a-crime/?utm_term=.46025194cea8

    Facts matter, the truth still matters Comrade Wellwisher.

    So you think the Washington Post is a "Democratic party propaganda news paper" and then you cite an opinion piece written by a rabid right winger? For all the rhetoric in that piece there is ZERO evidence to back up any of her assertions. There is no reason to believe there was any prosecutorial misconduct in Libby's prosecution. If Libby's boss, President Bush II thought there was anything wrong with Libby's conviction, he could have pardoned Libby before he left office, but he didn't. Once again, the facts just do not support your assertions Comrade Wellwisher.

    Furthermore, Libby has nothing to do with either Trump or Russiagate. And the Washington Post isn't a Democratic propaganda newspaper. The Washington Post is owned by Jeff Bezos who is a well known Libertarian. Libertarians aren't Democrats Comrade Wellwisher. There is a big difference. Libertarians generally side with Republicans. Just because the Washington Post isn't a right wing propaganda outlet like Fox News or right wing talk radio, it doesn't mean it's "fake news" or a "Democratic party propaganda newspaper".

    Again, unfortunately for you and your Republican cohorts, the truth still matters.
     
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I think if you do the research you will find that the main reason Putin started overtly supporting Syria was when the USA implied a loosening of it's remove Assad resolve/requirement at the UN well before the Trump's administration (if you can call it that) took office. Aside from the detail the thrust of your post stands though IMO.
    If I recall correctly, the USA UN team were wishing Russia to get involved in it's fight against Daesh in Syria, which Putin said he would do. This wish came with an implied change in USA position towards Assad.

    Putin subsequently launched operations against rebels instead ( having lied or purposefully misled over his commitment towards fighting Daesh) and overtly consolidated his support for the Assad regime. This only happened when the Obama USA UN team gave him an (inadvertently perhaps (*?)) opt in by softening it's "Assad must go" position. This is because Putin has a defense treaty with Assad ( Assad family) only and NOT the nation of Syria persee.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
  22. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Trump's latest job approval rating: 38%. That's pathetic. Typically at this stage in the game presidents are at there job approval apex. If this is Trump's apex, the nation is in deep trouble. How low can Trump's job approval numbers go? He has lost the independents. It appears all he has left are hardcore Republicans, i.e. the Republican base. But he may not have that long if things continue to progress they way they have been. His party is showing deep fractures.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx
     
  23. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    When you have quite different memories about the wishes of the US. The main military point which motivated Putin was that the turkish-backed took Idlib, which made the whole situation dangerous. The US were wishing nothing of this at all. But they were unable to say so openly, given that Putin was invited by Assad to fight islamist terrorists, including Daesh, and to support Daesh in a completely open way was impossible for the US.
    Nonsense. Putin has clearly and openly declared from the start that it will fight all terrorists, and not only Daesh. This was at a time when, even if officially Al Qaida was on a list of terrorists, there was no US fighting against Al Qaida at all, and almost open support of various "moderate rebels", which were, in reality, factions of the same Al Qaida renamed into FSA or so.

    There was an initial big propaganda campaign "Russia is not fighting Daesh, as they have claimed", but the natural answer was that, first, there was no such claim to fight only Daesh, and, second, they were fighting Daesh too. In fact, the first big success of the Syrian army after the Russians came was the breaking of the siege of the Kuweiris airbase, which was against Daesh. Another anti-Daesh action which became quite famous was bombing their oil business. Daesh was not the priority - initially, the priority was Latakia, because of its potential danger for the coastal area, but also because of a large amount of fighters from Caucasus there. After this, Aleppo became priority. Clearing the rural area in East Aleppo from Daesh was part of it, but of course not the main part, which was Aleppo itself. Clearing the environment of Damaskus is high priority, and will remain so for some time until the job is finished. Actually fighting Daesh is sufficiently high on the priority list. But if there are some attacks from Idlib, then to stop and revert them has clearly much higher priority. Roughly, Russia has his own priority list in Syria, and it is based on its own interests, and has never made any different claims. The US position in the UN was irrelevant.
     

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