Open Debate: Evolution.

[superluminal]

I think the men should resign and hand over power to women.

I agree. I will volunteer to be the first male sex slave, in the tradition of the great empires of the past.

 

[S.A.M.]

If you are naughty I shall hand you over to the Knights who say "Ni"

 

[superluminal]

If you are naughty I shall hand you over to the Knights who say "Ni"

That would be bad. I will behave, mistress.

 

[(Q)]

No the main difference between people is POWER.

That's what everyone wants; to be more powerful; actually its all the testosterone.

Those who are unable to achieve in life clamour for power. You paint a very broad brush of mankind from the greed of a few.

Remember, we are not children of gods, but instead evolving beings. We still have much to learn and achieve.

 

[superluminal]

I would suggest to everyone reading this to go get a copy of a book by Steven Pinker called "The Blank Slate - The Modern Denial of Human Nature". You may not agree with everything he has to say, but it is very enlightening and bears on just about every discussion we're having here.

 

[S.A.M.]

Those who are unable to achieve in life clamour for power. You paint a very broad brush of mankind from the greed of a few.

Remember, we are not children of gods, but instead evolving beings. We still have much to learn and achieve.

You ARE idealistic! I suspected as much! I'm not, I'm afraid, I've seen what greed and corruption people are capable of and to what depths people are willing to sink to maintain a status quo.

But you are right, as well. There are people who gain personal and intellectual fulfillment and you will not find them among those who want to kill or fight; unfortunately, since you'll also rarely find them at the helm of such groups; there is a very low likelihood of such groups even listening to or considering them. They are essentially doomed to be the spectators who know what is going wrong and simultaneously being completely helpless to do anything about it.

 

[superluminal]

They are essentially doomed to be the spectators who know what is going wrong and simultaneously being completely helpless to do anything about it.

Exactly.

 

[(Q)]

You ARE idealistic! I suspected as much! I'm not, I'm afraid, I've seen what greed and corruption people are capable of and to what depths people are willing to sink to maintain a status quo.

From the minds of theists?

But you are right, as well. There are people who gain personal and intellectual fulfillment and you will not find them among those who want to kill or fight; unfortunately, since you'll also rarely find them at the helm of such groups; there is a very low likelihood of such groups even listening to or considering them. They are essentially doomed to be the spectators who know what is going wrong and simultaneously being completely helpless to do anything about it.

Education my dear, education. THAT is what we do about it.

 

[S.A.M.]

From the minds of theists?

Unfortunately (for you), I never judge people based on their deistic inclinations!!

Education my dear, education. THAT is what we do about it.

Guess which (mostly) educated country has killed the most number of people in the last century for reasons that have nothing to do with religion?

 

[(Q)]

Unfortunately (for you), I never judge people based on their deistic inclinations!!

You have already in some of your posts.

Guess which (mostly) educated country has killed the most number of people in the last century for reasons that have nothing to do with religion?

Please enlighten. And of course, you'll be presenting those reasons, right?

 

[S.A.M.]

You have already in some of your posts.

Well if you're talking about yourself it had nothing to do with your inclinations!

If anyone else, it was not deliberate, mostly my mouth taking over my brain

Please enlighten. And of course, you'll be presenting those reasons, right?

Oh its there in the thread somewhere, and its mostly about politics and power, of course combined with a whole lot of misplaced good intentions and lack of foresight.

Here it is:

American Democide

In domestic democide, such as lynchings, the American government was probably indirectly responsible for around 2,000 killed since 1900. But in foreign wars, the American military may have killed hundreds of thousands of foreigners in cold blood, virtually all civilians, and the greater majority of these by bombing.
Putting together all the subtotals (lines 333 to 350), in this century the United States probably murdered about 583,000 people (line 350), conceivable even as many as 1,641,000 all told. Virtually all of these were foreigners killed during foreign wars. Domestically, throughout this century the American Federal or state governments were responsible for the murder of about 1 out of every 1,111,000 Americans per year.

 

[(Q)]

Domestically, throughout this century the American Federal or state governments were responsible for the murder of about 1 out of every 1,111,000 Americans per year.

Sorry about that, but I wouldn't have imagined you were talking about the US when you said, "educated country."

I now have to clean off the margarita which spewed thru my nose and onto my laptop.

 

[S.A.M.]

Sorry about that, but I wouldn't have imagined you were talking about the US when you said, "educated country."

I now have to clean off the margarita which spewed thru my nose and onto my laptop.

Hey I did qualify it with "mostly", so you cannot say you weren't warned.

Too bad about the margarita, though; and the laptop of course ( you see my priorities are in the right order)

 

[Alejandro]

Here it is: American Democide In domestic democide, such as lynchings, the American government was probably indirectly responsible for around 2,000 killed since 1900. But in foreign wars, the American military may have killed hundreds of thousands of foreigners in cold blood, virtually all civilians, and the greater majority of these by bombing. Putting together all the subtotals (lines 333 to 350), in this century the United States probably murdered about 583,000 people (line 350), conceivable even as many as 1,641,000 all told. Virtually all of these were foreigners killed during foreign wars. Domestically, throughout this century the American Federal or state governments were responsible for the murder of about 1 out of every 1,111,000 Americans per year.

Lets inject a little honesty into this-

Phillipine-American war (the war U.S bought from Spain)
http://www.historyguy.com/PhilipineAmericanwar.html

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP8.HTM Pakistan
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP3.HTM Japan
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP4.HTM Cambodia
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP5.HTM Turkey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/rwanda/

Heres a good one-

 

[GeoffP]

Wft, thats not from the Qu'ran. And Ayatollahs are Shias not Sunni Muslims.

Anyway I told you to bring a verse form the Qu'ran which states Muslims should kill apostates.

And I brought you a hadith which says exactly that. Why the evasion?

Also bring me one verse from the Qu'ran which says kill the non Muslims?

Sura 9 for starters. Kill, convert, or pay the tax.

 

[S.A.M.]

Lets inject a little honesty into this-

Phillipine-American war (the war U.S bought from Spain)
http://www.historyguy.com/PhilipineAmericanwar.html

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP8.HTM Pakistan
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP3.HTM Japan
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP4.HTM Cambodia
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP5.HTM Turkey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/rwanda/

Heres a good one-

I think you missed the point; we're talking about an educated country...unless you claim that these other countries are educated on a scale equal to the US?

 

[Alejandro]

You cannot be so selective, it doesnt take education to know mass murder and genocide is wrong.

But the reality is all those listed are\were led by "educated" people....no excuses. Do you really think Pakistan is uneducated?....Japan???

The point is you are taking pot shots at the U.S, a fair and just nation.

 

[(Q)]

I think you missed the point; we're talking about an educated country...unless you claim that these other countries are educated on a scale equal to the US?

But seriously, your argument here really does not have merit. The US is mired in religious dogma and fanaticism, and rates very low in educational standards when compared to the vaste resources at its disposal, and to other more secular countries.

As silly as it seems, a great number of Americans actually believe the earth was created by a god.

Isn't that ridiculous?

 

[S.A.M.]

You cannot be so selective, it doesnt take education to know mass murder and genocide is wrong.

But the reality is all those listed are\were led by "educated" people....no excuses. Do you really think Pakistan is uneducated?....Japan???

The point is you are taking pot shots at the U.S, a fair and just nation.

This is not an America bashing thread; this is a thread on evolution and we are discussing the reasons for the evolution of religion; since one posting claimed that increased education should replace religion, I selected a multicultural educated country with the BEST education in the world, as an example that, education does not automatically bring world peace.

There is murder all over the world; I do not condone ANYONE who resorts to killing to prove a point; I just selected the best representative I had. Not because it is the US; because it is the best representative of educated country committing a large scale massacre for non-religious reasons.

I'm sorry if I offended you, but it is the best example.

 

[superluminal]

There's one way to pacify the world (in a good way). Education and wealth. It's harder to mobilize people who are satisfied with their lives and have a sense of ownership over their property. Raise the standard of living of the world above a certain threshold and violent conflict will almost disappear. So says I.