What is reality ?

[Write4U]

Not sure I can tag on independent of other conditions.....

Well, if time emerges only as a measurable by-product (duration) of change, then that qualifier should be correct, no?

 

[Mark Turner]

In reality time is just a word we made up to measure our own existence . Although geometrical positions change and the state of matter changes , those events don't have any affect on the space itself .
There is no future or past , there is only past and future positions , look ahead or behind you while travelling a journey and this holds true .
While things propagate through space , those things age while the space itself is forever unchanging .
Things can age differently though , this depends on the entropy and the number of ways a volume can change its state .

 

[Write4U]

While things propagate through space , those things age while the space itself is forever unchanging .

IMO, that is incorrect. All things age because space is forever changing.

Things can age differently though , this depends on the entropy and the number of ways a volume can change its state

Yep, and time is the measurement we use to tell the differences in relative temporal duration (aging faster or slower)

 

[Michael 345]

Well, if time emerges only as a measurable by-product (duration) of change, then that qualifier should be correct, no?

Correct for AGE yes

For TIME no

 

[Michael 345]

Things can age differently

Things can age differently, can and do, due to their speed through their environment, (one aspect of environment being gravity) hence the twin paradox and the need to constantly adjust synchronisation of satellites, these two well and truly tried to speed

Much of the difference in ageing is in the region of micro seconds due to the low speeds involved but detectable

TIME? not detectable due to having no properties to detect

 

[Mark Turner]

IMO, that is incorrect. All things age because space is forever changing.

Yep, and time is the measurement we use to tell the differences in relative temporal duration (aging faster or slower)

You are considering space as a whole and not just an empty immovable space that is possibly infinite .
Matter occupying the space , atomic matter and field matter , substance that can age .
We could say that relative time (the aging of matter) occupies a timeless space , considering an expanding visual universe , in being field matter expansion .
Field density increase proportional to the inverse from an observable center .

 

[Mark Turner]

Things can age differently, can and do, due to their speed through their environment, (one aspect of environment being gravity) hence the twin paradox and the need to constantly adjust synchronisation of satellites, these two well and truly tried to speed

Much of the difference in ageing is in the region of micro seconds due to the low speeds involved but detectable

TIME? not detectable due to having no properties to detect

Correct , the timeless property of space .

 

[Write4U]

We could say that relative time (the aging of matter) occupies a timeless space

Hence without spatial change time does not exist independently but becomes measurable only as a result of duration of change from the mega-quantum event of the BB to the age of 14.5 billion arbitrary time units (years) since the BB.

p.s. the "timeless space " you visualize, I see as a "timeless permittive condition" without any spatial dimensions at all and thus no associated temporal dimension, i.e. complete absence of space and total timelessness.

 

[Mark Turner]

Hence without change time does not exist independently but is a result of duration of change.

p.s. the "timeless space " you visualize I see as a "timeless permittive condition" without any spatial dimensions at all and thus no associated temporal dimension, i.e. timelessness.

An infinite space wouldn't have dimensions but a finite observation of infinite space , would give the impression of dimensions that have visual boundaries .

 

[Michael 345]

Correct , the timeless property of space .

Hence without spatial change time does not exist independently but becomes measurable only as a result of duration of change from the mega-quantum event of the BB to the age of 14.5 billion arbitrary time units (years) since the BB.

p.s. the "timeless space " you visualize, I see as a "timeless permittive condition" without any spatial dimensions at all and thus no associated temporal dimension, i.e. complete absence of space and total timelessness.

To both

Timelessness etc etc does not equate or is equal to TIME not existing

Think about it

 

[Mark Turner]

To both

Timelessness etc etc does not equate or is equal to TIME not existing

Think about it

Zero doesn't change equates to time not existing

 

[Write4U]

To both

Timelessness etc etc does not equate or is equal to TIME not existing

Think about it

I agree, that's why time (duration of change) only becomes manifest during dynamic change, but does not exist without it.

 

[Michael 345]

Zero doesn't change equates to time not existing

No idea what that means

I agree, that's why time (duration of change) only becomes manifest during dynamic change, but does not exist without it.

duration of change = AGE not time

To both

Timelessness etc etc does not equate or is equal to TIME not existing

Think about it

As per above, giving Timelessness as a aspect of something ie space, has the effect of saying
"Well time does not exist in space, but other places it does"

Care to join me on Schrodinger Cat Island?

The only place you might find solace, as TIME does not exist there,except in the bubble you walk around in

 

[Write4U]

duration of change = AGE not time

I see this differently. Age is a defined moment after a certain period of time.
OTOH, time is an abstract "permissive temporal" tool, required for the quantum function and continuation of extant patterns.

age (āj) n.
1.
a. The length of time that a person or thing has existed: a man 23 years of age; wanted to know the age ofthe house.
b. The time of life when a person becomes qualified to assume certain civil and personal rights andresponsibilities, usually at 18 or 21 years; legal age: under age; of age.
c. One of the stages of life: the age of adolescence; at an awkward age.
d. The state of being old; old age: hair white with age.

2. often Age
a. A period of time marked by a distinctive characteristic, achievement, or figure: the Stone Age; the computerage; the Elizabethan Age.
b. A period in the history of the earth, usually shorter than an epoch: the Ice Age.

3.
a. The period of history during which a person lives: a product of his age.
b. A generation: ages yet unborn.

4. ages Informal An extended period of time: left ages ago.
v. aged, ag·ing, ag·es
v.tr.
1. To cause to become old or to show the signs of becoming old: The stress of the office visibly aged the president.
2. To cause to mature or ripen under controlled conditions: aging wine.
3. To change (the characteristics of a device) through use, especially to stabilize (an electronic device).
v.intr.
1. To become old or show signs of becoming old: Who doesn't want to age gracefully?
2. To develop a certain quality of ripeness; become mature: cheese aging at room temperature.

Phrasal Verb:
age out Informal
To reach an age, 18 or 21 years, for example, at which one is no longer eligible for certain special services, such as education or protection, from the state.

Idiom:
come of age
To reach maturity.

As per above, giving Timelessness as a aspect of something ie space, has the effect of saying
"Well time does not exist in space, but other places it does"

I disagree on that interpretation.
When there is timelessness there is no aging, anywhere, because there is nothing that can be measured.

Care to join me on Schrodinger Cat Island?

Kewl....
We could ask; "does time exist inside the Box?"

The only place you might find solace, as TIME does not exist there, except in the bubble you walk around in

This would suggest "Pocket Universes".

But Hawking has a slightly different interpretation.

I don't like this picture of the BB and initial stage of our universe. Where did all the stars come from? Prior BB's? The background should be completely black to indicate the absence of everything except the BB!

This subatomic ball of everything is known as the singularity (not to be confused with the technological singularity during which artificial intelligence will overtake humans). Inside this extremely small, massively dense speck of heat and energy, the laws of physics and time as we know them cease to function. Put another way, time as we understand it literally did not exist before the universe started to expand. Rather, the arrow of time shrinks infinitely as the universe becomes smaller and smaller, never reaching a clear starting point.

https://www.livescience.com/61914-stephen-hawking-neil-degrasse-tyson-beginning-of-time.html

But that would suggest time has always existed as a by-product of "being".

I visualize a pre-BB (permittive) condition devoid of all properties and therefore not experiencing the passage of time.
A pure stasis where no temporal measurements can be made. Until a mega-quantum event created the BB and cosmic inflation started (in the absence of physical restrictions), and thus establishing a dimensional coordinate "time-line". A chronology, a sequential accounting of units of duration of any change, from which the "age" of something can be extrapolated.

I am doubtful about the notion of a diverse multiverse. Seems to me things would tend to get very crowded with competing universes. I see it more as Darwinian evolution where any form of dynamism would naturally self-form into a universal pattern similar to our universe as we know it in accordance to the physical laws created along with the creation of physical objects (patterns) as we know them to exist.

But you had it correct when suggesting that Time is a temporal measurement of duration whereas Mathematics is the spatial measurement of physics............

 

[Write4U]

Things can age differently, can and do

Right, as associated with the process of growing old. But time does not only measure age, it also measures distance and duration of all associated changes and dynamic processes, from quantum to the "age"(measurement of existence) of the universe.

But no one ever says ; "It's about age that you took care of this" instead of saying "It's about time you took care of this".
IMO, it does not lend itself to an comprehensive equation. Age is a moment in time, time is a measurement of duration, from start to finish of a change?

 

[Michael 345]

Age is a defined moment after a certain period of time

Age is all of the period. Age 10 includes within all the lower ages below 10

OTOH, time is an abstract "permissive temporal" tool, required for the quantum function and continuation of extant patterns

If I knew what this translation into English was I might have a reply

I disagree on that interpretation

OK, park to one side

Kewl....
We could ask; "does time exist inside the Box?"

Just a ageing cat of indeterminate status living / dead

I visualize a pre-BB (permittive) condition devoid of all properties and therefore not experiencing the passage of time.
A pure stasis where no temporal measurements can be made. Until a mega-quantum event created the BB and cosmic inflation started (in the absence of physical restrictions), and thus establishing a dimensional coordinate "time-line". A chronology, a sequential accounting of units of duration of any change, from which the "age" of something can be extrapolated.

I envision pre Big Bang as stuff in existence in a different format than current existence

and also zero time within the different format

Right, as associated with the process of growing old. But time does not only measure age, it also measures distance and duration of all associated changes and dynamic processes, from quantum to the "age"(measurement of existence) of the universe.

TIME does not exist so I fail to see how it also measures distance and duration

Distance measurement comes from arbitrary units just the same as duration is made between arbitrary NOW moments and arbitrary age units

But no one ever says ; "It's about age that you took care of this" instead of saying "It's about time you took care of this".

They do say
"This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius" at the commencement of said age looking into the future

It's about age - correct do not say
It's about time - correct do say but incorrect to do so

Age is a moment in time,

Word looking for - NOW

time is a measurement of duration, from start to finish of a change?

Word looking for AGE

Definitely coffee time

 

[Write4U]

Write4U said:
Age is a moment in time,

Word looking for - NOW

Not necessarily, a moment in time could have been yesterday 24 hrs ago or expected to occur tomorrow, 24 hrs from NOW....

 

[Michael 345]

Not necessarily, a moment in time could have been yesterday 24 hrs ago or expected to occur tomorrow, 24 hrs from NOW....

Even if the moment was yesterday or is on its way and expected tomorrow it still retains the NOW moniker but for clarification you may wish to add qualifiers

I also have noticed every moment you have described TIME you have only given descriptions, never a property

 

[Mark Turner]

Even if the moment was yesterday or is on its way and expected tomorrow it still retains the NOW moniker but for clarification you may wish to add qualifiers

I also have noticed every moment you have described TIME you have only given descriptions, never a property

There is no yesterday or tomorrow , that is day and night subjective and made up .

 

[Michael 345]

There is no yesterday or tomorrow , that is day and night subjective and made up .

Beg pardon

Explain please