UFOs (UAPs): Explanations?

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Oct 10, 2017.

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  1. wegs

    wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    What evidence are some of you seeking? I don't think that the alien theory can be peer reviewed, so MR is sharing evidence, that he believes to be accurate (until further evidence presents itself)
     
    wegs, Jan 16, 2020
    #3361

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  3. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    "The Military has dealt with UFO sightings for quite some time now. One interesting quote about the phenomenon comes from Lionel M. Chassin, General of the French Air Forces:

    “The number of thoughtful, intelligent, educated people in full possession of their faculties who have ‘seen something’ and described it grows every day…We can…say categorically that mysterious objects have indeed appeared and continue to appear in the sky that surrounds us… (they) unmistakably suggest a systematic aerial exploration and cannot be the result of chance. It indicates the purpose and intelligent action.”---- https://curiosmos.com/heres-a-compilation-of-ufo-quotes-proving-how-widespread-the-phenomenon-is/
     
    Magical Realist, Jan 16, 2020
    #3362
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  5. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Why not?

    Something strange in the sky, or wherever, does not default to aliens, laws of physics being broken, extra dimensions or any other explanation other than Unknown

    Point to ANY Law of Physics which is flexible and you might have a case of other laws also being flexible and the chance that the Unknown can become the Known

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    Michael 345, Jan 17, 2020
    #3363

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  7. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Because a structured aerial wingless craft with illuminating lights performing extraordinary and even evasive flight maneuvers suggests highly intelligent intent, not some random fluke of nature.
     
    Magical Realist, Jan 17, 2020
    #3364
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  8. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Because a structured aerial craft with illuminating lights

    Please post the best photo you have of such a craft

    I did find this news item

    https://www-space-com.cdn.ampprojec...errer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s

    Not sure what to make of it

    MY GUESS is a over abundance of caution with a hint of "we can't admit we don't know and look silly"

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    Michael 345, Jan 17, 2020
    #3365
  9. DaveC426913

    DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    None of which is fact, simply description by witnesses.

    A witness cannot truthfully say "There were no wings" - they can only truthfully say "No wings were apparent to my eye."

    A witness cannot truthfully say "It accelerated to speed X to Y seconds." - they can only truthfully say "It appeared to go from here to there, and it appeared to do it very fast, and if I were to assume that wasn't an illusion of distance and/or perspective I'd guess it's about X."

    Witnesses are really bad sources of evidence. This is fact.
     
    DaveC426913, Jan 17, 2020
    #3366
  10. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    After thousands of eyewitness accounts repeating these same details about ufos, I'm pretty sure it's fact by now.
     
    Magical Realist, Jan 17, 2020
    #3367
  11. DaveC426913

    DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    No - you keep making this mistake. Each event must be evaluated on its own merits.

    Otherwise, by your logic, this is true:

    There are lots of accounts of Bigfoot, and there are lots of accounts of Leprechauns, therefore Loch Ness is pretty much fact by now.

    One mystery account does not lend credence to another.
     
    DaveC426913, Jan 17, 2020
    #3368
  12. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    No..multiple sightings of ufos bears no comparison to your example. A Bigfoot looks nothing like a Leprechaun looks nothing like Loch Ness. Flying illuminated discs and ovals performing extraordinary flight maneuvers otoh do look the same. It's completely logical to posit their identity as the same phenomenon.
     
    Magical Realist, Jan 17, 2020
    #3369
  13. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    wegs:

    If you're really interested to find out, try reading through the thread from the start. Admittedly, there's a lot of rubbish to wade through to get to the relevant bits.

    Basically, the "fuss" is about MR's standards of evidence, or rather the lack thereof. MR's mind is so open that his brains are in imminent danger of falling out. He's willing to accept anything that he sees on youtube as gospel truth, with the curious exception of any material that expresses doubt on the subject of his blind faith: that little green men are visiting us on Earth in their little green tic-tac spaceships.

    A few of us here have made various attempts to educate MR on what evidence is and how to evaluate it, but MR looks to be a rare example of somebody who is bright enough to learn but is ultimately uneducatable. He has had all the benefit of personal, targeted teaching for years now, but he is an unwilling learner. My own hypothesis is that there is something deeply needy about his desire for the woo to all be true. That is, I think that believing in all this stuff gives him some kind of feeling of belonging or satisfies some other psychological need he has, to the extent where he will go out of his way to ignore all the problems with the paltry evidences that he offers up.

    The other main element of the "fuss", as you will see if you read through the thread, is that MR tends to go through cycles in which he periodically loses his temper whenever too many doubts are raised about his treasured beliefs. During times of heightened emotion, MR usually takes to personally insulting people. This has historically led to his temporary banning from sciforums. After some time out he usually settles down a little, but always returns with some new rubbish from youtube that he regards as the newest, shiniest bauble in his woo-dominated personal world. After he compulsively cuts and pastes his latest fad, the cycle starts again as sensible people raise questions about how much his latest "evidence" is really worth.

    Basically, any sensible convergence of evidence that suggests that the alien hypothesis that MR is pushing is real. Not the fuzzy photos of dubious provenance or the breathless "recreation" animations based on tall tales spun by self-promoting UFO "witnesses". Not the tales of government coverups and supposed conspiracies of the scientific establishment to hide "the Truth". Not the ambiguous physical evidence that could be the metal skin of a UFO but which could far more easily explained as part of a weather balloon.

    First and foremost, all claims ought to be supported by at least some evidence. For example, here's MR's latest (really, I could pick just about any of MR's posts at random as an example):
    MR has no actual evidence of a "structure", a "craft", "illuminated lights" attached to any UFO "craft", other than anecdotal accounts. The same goes for "extraordinary maneuvers", which he often cites. It usually turns out that nobody actually measured any extraordinary speeds or accelerations or whatever the latest thing is he is alleging; on the contrary, it's usually no better than somebody's guess, based on looking at something they didn't identify, often at an unknown distance from them.

    In passing, also note the false dichotomy MR tries to set up: either it is little green men, or it is a "random fluke of nature". There is no in-between, like a well-documented natural phenomenon or a human-made conventional aircraft. MR is not willing to seriously consider any alternatives to the woo, ever. He's even on the record as denying a number of water-tight disproofs of his various woo hypotheses. That is, even when presented with unequivocal evidence that his supposed woo event was something utterly mundane, he refuses to accept the evidence that disproves what he so desperately wants or needs to believe.

    Sure it can. The problem for UFO nuts is that honest review of the evidence, especially by unbiased experts, has always found UFO claims to be either disproved or unconfirmed.

    Mostly, MR just mindlessly copies his latest youtube obsession. It's like a form of spam to the forum. And don't kid yourself that MR is open to changing his mind.

    Don't believe me? Read through the thread.

    Alternatively, try this thread, which examines one famous UFO case in a lot of detail:

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/portage-county-ravenna-ufo-chase-1966.158484/
     
    James R, Jan 17, 2020
    #3370
  14. Q-reeus

    Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    You have to keep in mind the mental state of most skeptics here. Demonstrably incompetent and even crackpot in their take on various aspects of physical science, they try and compensate by constantly demanding 'scientific proof' of UFO phenomena. A cheap way of labeling themselves as 'scientific' vs the 'woo merchants' who accept non-mundane UFO phenomena as obviously real.

    They conveniently dodge the fact that by it's clearly unpredictable therefore unreproducible nature, non-mundane UFO phenomena automatically falls outside the domain of narrowly defined scientific inquiry. To dismiss or more generally scoff at phenomena merely because it's 'unscientific' by narrow definition, is not smart but stupid and illogical. A key unstated assumption being only the material world subject to reproducible investigation can exist.

    That quote of French airforce general - and there are many similar from highly respected, high responsibility figures - sums it up pretty well. Accept the overwhelming wealth of evidence for intelligently controlled (thus likely whimsical in nature) encounters. Instead of playing at cheap trolling mind-game postings as worthless hobby. It doesn't actually cover for their incompetencies in real science. Chanting endlessly 'show me the scientific proof!' doesn't endow them with 'scientific' credentials in doing so.
     
    Q-reeus, Jan 17, 2020
    #3371
    dumbest man on earth and Magical Realist like this.
  15. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    The post you answered here is NOT comparing each of the three creatures against each other

    EACH creature has enough sightings to be, by your low standards, proven to exist

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    Michael 345, Jan 17, 2020
    #3372
  16. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Yes. That is exactly what I do here..But I also think James' post effectively fails to answer your question with what amounts to nothing more than a whiney and resentful flame of my intelligence, personality, and character capped off by a ridiculous admonition to read this entire 3373 post thread. I would only ask you now who it is that is still making it personal here and putting people down and thriving on all the emotional drama here? Not me. I hate drama. I just present and argue for the evidence of ufos, not "little green men", which going by James' latest unprovoked and belligerent rant must be more convincing than I thought.

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    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
    Magical Realist, Jan 17, 2020
    #3373
    dumbest man on earth likes this.
  17. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Beer w/Straw, Jan 17, 2020
    #3374
  18. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Nope..
     
    Magical Realist, Jan 17, 2020
    #3375
  19. foghorn

    foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    And you present and argue for...
    ''Beings'' ''Conscious pilots'' ''paranormal beings'' ''time travelers'' and ''interdimensionals''.
    Their all there in these quotes from you MR.

    ''Beings''.
    ''conscious pilots''.
    ''time travelers, or paranormal beings.''
     
    foghorn, Jan 17, 2020
    #3376
  20. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Still waiting on

    Guess this is another Green Light Helicopter

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ oh well, back to having fun

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    Michael 345, Jan 17, 2020
    #3377
  21. DaveC426913

    DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Don't be silly. They all have four limbs and a head, are all within an order of magnitude of the same size, all frequent the Northern Hemisphere, and are all very reclusive.

    I could go on and on about the similarities. There is an unlimited list of similarities if I am motivated enough to go looking for them.
    Not a chance.

    Many sightings are not flying.
    Many sightings are not illuminated.
    Many sightings are not discs.
    Many sightings are not ovals.
    Many sightings are not performing extraordinary flight maneuvers.

    Do you see how you embellish and conflate multiple independent accounts to make it look (quite falsely) as if they're all the same thing? That is scientifically dishonest.
     
    DaveC426913, Jan 17, 2020
    #3378
  22. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Many sightings of what?
     
    Magical Realist, Jan 17, 2020
    #3379
  23. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    OMFG I TOTALLY HAVE TO GET A HOLD OF THESE DOCUMENTS!

    IN YOU FACE UFO DENIERS!

     
    Beer w/Straw, Jan 17, 2020
    #3380
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