Let us be honest. Islam’s ideology is immoral to its core. Should we ask the Haigue and U.N. to rule

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Quantum Quack said:
If I am not mistaken, the Quran in itself is not the main problem, it is more to do with the other religious texts such as the "Haddiths"
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Its both the Koran and the Haddith...see link for examples:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

If these verses were published in a new book today it would legally classify as 'hate speech'...an indictable offense in many nations. Its legal to think it...but not to publish it in print.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech
 
One of the problems facing the world is the tremendous disparity in educational levels. The fact that a significant proportion of the world is living a life style similar to what may have been the case in medieval Europe. This is not a criticism btw. but just an attempt to put it all in a better perspective.

A recent and ongoing tragedy is occurring in Pakistan at the moment regarding the conviction, imprisonment and a death penalty of a woman who dared to compare one Islamic prophet with another causing outrage.
Bibi, a Christian, apparently is guilty of drinking water from a well reserved for Muslims and complained that Jesus would allow a stranger generosity when confronted by an angry and bigoted mob.
see:
"MOTHER-of-five Asia Bibi is likely to be hanged for the “crime” of being Christian in a Muslim country, after she was sentenced to death in a Pakistani court on trumped-up charges of blasphemy. Even if the farm worker were guilty of insulting the prophet Muhammad — and the evidence suggests she was not — it is obscene that she should be facing the death penalty for such a spurious “crime”."
src: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...e/news-story/8e35070af2d6f4d1fc3657b5e61f5a9d
This Bibi problem is not really about religion, but one of spiritual and intellectual immaturity. A mob of fearful and ignorant people grasping at anything to make themselves feel better, using any excuse to vent their frustration at being in such poor circumstances and refusing to accept that perhaps their religious perspectives may be driving their poverty of expression, education and finances.
Blaming the religion instead of placing the blame where it belongs is not very helpful.
as is blaming the availability of guns instead of the men firing them is also not very helpful.
The Quran and the Haddiths, as is the bible, are only Books open to interpretation. It is the responsibility of the individual as to how they effect their circumstance.
So banning a religion is not going to solve the problem...

Whether we as a global community like it or not we are going to have to co-exist for probably many a hundred years as the those less fortunate play catch up with those that are more fortunate.
 
billvon said:
No. It is not inherently immoral, nor should we "declare war" on it.

Absolutely. Honor also demands we stand together against bigots who attack someone else for their race, religion or sex.
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So you do not see anything inherently immoral in child brides, FGM or the throwing of gays off of buildings.

Is that right?

Regards
DL
 
Quantum Quack said:
Evangelizing "freedom" is no better than evangelizing religion.
Forcing ones moral code, even if that involves freedom, upon another is exactly what oppression is. (force = oppression)

War it self is immoral regardless of justification.

Perhaps the Hague and UN can make a ruling about paranoia as well?
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So promoting freedom is no better than promoting slavery to you. Ok.

Regards
DL
 
Carcano said:
No idea is valid simply because its part of a religion...this principle should be taught in school at the earliest age of understanding.

The US bill of rights should thus be amended according to this principle...it states:

'Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

If the free exercise of Islam means defying established standards of ethics then yes, it should be prohibited by State authorities.

For more on the origins of Islamic ideology:
http://www.yoel.info/moonotheismv1andv2.pdf
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Thanks for this.

We already outlaw some of the less savory religious practices, --- yet stupid people do not see that and think that religions rule governments and not the reality that governments rule over religions.

That is governments fault for giving respect to religions that do not deserve it.

Regards
DL
 
Bells said:
Freedom is about allowing people to believe and practice their religion.
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So you have no problem with Muslims having child brides, FGM or throwing gays off of buildings. Right?

You asked which normality we should judge Islam with. Your own if what they promote bothers you.

If it does not then you are not a moral man and I would not agree with you.

Regards
DL
 
Yazata said:
I disagree vehemently with the idea of enforced morality.
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Yet you are likely a law abiding person.

Yazata said:
Who is "we"? Declare war how? And where?
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I was clear that it was the ideology that needed to be fought yet many ignore that fact and want to change what I put to a war against people instead of ideas.

Yazata said:
Even if they don't want to?
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Yes. It is our duty to correct those who are immoral.

Regards
DL
 
Quantum Quack said:
Yes unfortunately, Christians are stuck with the old testament. Christ himself recommended none of those indictments.
Most Christians observe the teaching of Christ as being the NEW testament for a reason.
Name one instance where Christ advocates violence against another and I will stand corrected.
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1. Christ advocated a no divorce policy, which would force women to remain in loveless and often violent relationships.
2. Yahweh/Jesus' policy on sacrifice and substitutionary atonement is violence against the innocent instead of the guilty.

Do you need more examples of Christ's immoral teachings?

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
1. Christ advocated a no divorce policy, which would force women to remain in loveless and often violent relationships.
2. Yahweh/Jesus' policy on sacrifice and substitutionary atonement is violence against the innocent instead of the guilty.

Do you need more examples of Christ's immoral teachings?

Regards
DL
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Can you give any actual examples (passages from the bible, for example)? Preferably new-testament, given the OT is "satisfied" by Christs death?
 
Tiassa said:
I forgot the point has nothing to do with understanding Islam and Muslims.
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Correct.

Moral people understand Islam quite well and that is why they will name it as an immoral creed whenever they can thanks to it's immoral ideology.

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
Correct.

Moral people understand Islam quite well and that is why they will name it as an immoral creed whenever they can thanks to it's immoral ideology.

Regards
DL
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Your statement, then, isn't that "Islam" is immoral... but that ALL religion is immoral...
 
Schmelzer said:
The Hague and the UN should be, by idea, neutral about ideological issues. The Hague should rule about a few very horrible crimes despised by all religions and ideologies, and the UN should find compromises between different states, also ruled by governments with different ideologies.

Unfortunately, the American unipolar world has compromised above. So, above have been heavily distorted toward a support American, Western ideology. The Hague is now known as a prejudiced pro-American court, and the UN is back to Cold War times.

But your proposal would make these things even much worse.
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??

How does educating the public about the levels of morality of the various religions make anything worse?

Are there other areas of thought that you think humanity should deny itself the truth?

Regards
DL
 
Quantum Quack said:
I think the following sums up my position.
If a person of any religious or other persuasion comes to my home front door wishing to enter, and refuses to respect my right to think and believe as I choose to as I do his right like wise then he will not be welcome in my household.
The golden rule:
"respect others as you wish to be respected"
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Will you respect a 50 year old man who introduces his 9 year old bide who has had FGM with her husbands consent?

Regards
DL
 
billvon said:
You have neatly "argued away" the large parts of the Bible the call for violence and killing through various means (i.e. Jesus is mostly talking about peace, it was really a metaphor etc.) I have no problem with that; indeed, most Christians take a very similar approach. A very few do not, and use those parts to defend their heinous actions.

That is very similar to what happens in Islam.
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A very few?

If that were true, then Christianity would not be the homophobic and misogynous that it and Islam are.

Regards
DL
 
billvon said:
You initially said that, under certain conditions, the US should outlaw Christianity and Islam. As you correctly point out, one cannot be locked up simply for having a belief in a religion, nor should the government be involved in religious decisions.
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??

Are you saying the authorities should not have moved against the Branch Dividians and David Koresh?

Regards
DL
 
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