Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
I'm sorry to hear that. It is hard losing people.
What do you think: Christianity as a teaching is about?
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ThazzarBaal
Registered Senior Member
My opinion: Finding truth and repenting from erroneous understandings. The problem is there's so much taught in the Christian religion that doesn't lend itself to what we know and understand about life, so for me it's about learning about my truth as an individual, and particularly about objective truth. Holy spirit (truthful spirit) and it's many applications in life is a perquisite to follow it's precepts per Jesus'' (my christian teacher) advice .
А в чём она, истина, состоит?
ThazzarBaal
Registered Senior Member
I'm not sure, but it's true, factual, and difficult to deny. Like, grass is typically green, and water is wet, and I like peach milkshakes better than chocolate.
ThazzarBaal
Registered Senior Member
The Church I belong to hold this as a starting point and basis for how we approach religion, namely Christianity.
Statement of Faith
Christos Agnate Evolutionist Church
1. We acknowledge the holy spirit as being an honest and truthful spirit, able to lead us as a guiding principle into all truth, which is to say we are obligated to this principal spirit as both a guide and for our ongoing morality (correctness).
2. We acknowledge God as our creator from where all things originate, that we are formed of Gods substance as living
beings, and as such we acknowledge the holy spirit as the elemental principle required to complete the triune nature of Godhead and through us, who adhere to its principle application.
3. We acknowledge the above to represent the nature of Christos, and to be anointed by truth (holy spirit) as Jesus was, enables us to conduct our lives rightly according to present life reality and to do so in truth.
4. We acknowledge righteousness to equate to right or rightness and true, and that wickedness equates to error, false, deceit, and/or to be incorrect, and that sin represents falling short of living truthfully as individuals.
5. We acknowledge morality to be individual and personal, being aware that subjective truth varies from person to person, and that it is required for the development of a truer relationship in how we honor God from our spirit as people.
CHRISTOS AGNATE EVOLUTIONIST CHURCH
Mission and Purpose Statement:
“Navigating life though the power of the Holy Spirit in truth, obligating ourselves to this duty as members of Christos Agnate Evolutionist Church, our mission is in our continual repentance, never leaning on our own (present day) understanding, but to honor God in Spirit and truth as truth reveals itself, manifesting through the many vehicles present in our ever-changing world.”
Christos Agnate Evolutionist Church
For the purpose of establishing a truer principled observance of the logos, for the edification and development of those who obligate themselves to truth, both through reason and applied study, and through the precepts associated with this honorable duty, the Christos Agnate Evolutionist Church shall be governed by the following Constitution:
That, we, the undersigned have voluntarily associated ourselves together for the purpose of forming a more unified body in compliance with the Laws of the State of Kentucky, hereby certify the following bylaws as essential precepts for our ongoing conduct:
ARTICLE I
Christos Agnate Evolutionist Church
To present ourselves as a more unified body, the name of this church shall be “Christos Agnate Evolutionist Church”.
ARTICLE II
Bylaws:
PURPOSES AND POWERS
THE PURPOSES FOR WHICH THIS BODY IS FORMED ARE:
To establish a more sensible method of religious observance in accordance with the Holy spirits guidance (as we understand truth in its many forms) evidenced objectively and through our personal relationships subjectively, to be essential for establishing greater service to our communities and for the purposed intent of continual repentance and change.
To earnestly seek and promote the truer guidance of the holy spirit in respect to ongoing and faithful acknowledgment of manifest truths, and to do so voluntary, particularly to repent of any former understanding, if and when a held precept is overcome by greater illumination and evidenced as an accepted truth objectively, and to do so freely, according to our several ability of discernment as individuals.
To accept accountability for our shortcomings as individuals, and to do so mindfully through the holy spirit, whether they be legal transgressions or personal, and to consider how daily conduct might affect the greater communities to which we belong, utilizing a truthful spirit as the guiding principle for community interaction.
To enter into agreement that we honor a 10% model for tithes, and to do so without obligation to any single entity or standard form of currency and/or increase, and by our own discernment choose for ourselves where these contributions might be best received and invested.
To honor the above with discretion and humility, with the aim of self-discipline for the benefit of the entire church body as acknowledged faithful observances by all who belong to it.
To acknowledge the bible as a textbook good for instruction, to acknowledge Jesus as a teacher and also a shepherd, and to likewise acknowledge the many other households of the earth (households of faith and those of a secular nature) who contribute to this world with true teachings for our edifying.
To acknowledge the Word/Logos as expressions of truth, and to acknowledge the source of expression as unlimited in nature, being unconfined as the all-encompassing divine, in which and through which, all things have their being.
To assemble in worship or recreation, as brothers and sisters born and created for adversity to help one another in difficult times, or in remembrance of those no longer with us; the assembling together should remain a choice and determined by each individual yet ought not to be forsaken.
ARTICLE III
CONCERNING DONATIONS, FINANCIAL INCREASE, AND OPERATIONAL STANDARDS
Operational structure and expectations as an organization should follow these standards and ought to be adhered to now, and likewise in the event of Incorporating from our current LLC registrar listing.
9. Donations may be accepted but should be refused in the event that the security of that which is to be accepted as a donation cannot be adequately accommodated.
10. All funds generated by church effort and from donation should honor current tax codes, even as a qualifying 501(c)(3) nonprofit entity, except in the event that by doing so would jeopardize the integrity of the church and its ability to continue successful operations.
11. In the event of Incorporating from an LLC, a board of directors should be assembled with equal rank among board members and should be operated as a democracy and in accordance with our stated purposes and bylaws.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
First things first. I am atheist, just to give you context.
Second I like your answer, the teachings of Jesus resonated with me as believer AND still today as a non believer.
You can take those positives and apply them to your life.
Treat everyone with respect and in a way you would want to be treated.
Having said that (you knew there had to be a but...) I do not agree with loving enemies. Enemies are enemies for a reason.
Should an enemy do something to indicate things have changed then I may forgive them.
Jesus was not the first to state the golden rule but he did say it.
ThazzarBaal
Registered Senior Member
Yes, he did suggest to love our enemies. I can hate them, too. It's natural. Civil society's would require an element of what some might consider love towards our enemies As people go, I think it's important to understand that we're not much different, others so understanding an opposing position can be helpful. At face value, I think the command or suggestion to love our enemies could be somewhat misleading. I think it's important but not an easy thing for many.
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Two distinct branches of thought, both expressed by Jesus in the Gospel narratives:
On one hand, a humanistic social ethic of love, mercy, equality, and mutual aid.
Honestly, not dissimilar from the teachings of the Cynics (and there was in fact a Cynic school in Galilee at the time, leading to some suggestion that the Historical Jesus was a syncretic Judeo-Cynic sage). And very much in alignment with the communitarian practices of the Dionysian Mysteries and the Orphics, which accepted people regardless of gender, ethnicity, and class. This wasn't unheard of it among ancient mystery cults, is what I'm saying, and there may be some influence going back-and-forth here, given the highly syncretic religious landscape of the Eastern Mediterranean.
On the other hand, an apocalyptic death cult preaching the imminent end of the world-that-is and the arrival of the world-to-come, where all social and political norms would be overturned by the direct rule of the divine on Earth.
This combines a lot of strains of apocalyptic thought that were popular in Late Second Temple Judaism, and very much represents the Judaic heritage of Early Christianity. It's important to note that textual evidence points towards the first generation of Christians believing that this was going to happen in their lifetimes, roughly during the reigns of Caligula and Nero, which was a nadir of Jewish-Roman relations. So all of this apocalypticism comes from a particular social, religious, and historical context of Judeans feeling anxiety over foreign imperialism and loss of identity. A fervent belief in the downfall of the worldly empires and the deliverance of their people from oppression was a big part of several Jewish sects, of which Christianity was the most survivable. And it survived in part because it extended this apocalyptic message beyond their fellow Jews.
Christianity's innovation was to wed this teaching of universal charity and brotherhood with a doctrine of universal salvation in the face of imminent cosmic doom.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
We can do both actually. I do not "know" if a god exists, nobody does, how could they? There could be a god hanging round our galaxy who has decided to just stay hidden. So I "lack" knowledge in this respect. I am agnostic.
However, given what I have learned about gods on this planet I have chosen to reject any arguments for their existence. That is my "belief," I am an atheist.
Агностики - честные люди. Они честно говорят - мы не знаем. Докажите нам, "дайте потрогать". Такие своего рода "Фомы не верующие". Верующие полагаются на свою интуицию чаще всего. Или это воспитание. Атеисты ничего точно не знают, но заранее отвергают. Что это - гордыня, или подростковый максимализм?
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
If that is your experience then great. I myself have had a mixed experience, nice person does not necessarily equate with a particular belief.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Nobody knows anything for sure - including believers.
Atheists don't reject it in advance; they reject it after reviewing the evidence, for which there is none.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
It is particularly annoying when theists tell atheists what they think and how they came to arrive at those conclusions.
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Дэйв, как можно изучить "доказательства, которых нет"? Если вы не нашли доказательств - это означает только то, что вы их не нашли. Наверное, плохо искали. Или искали не там. Или не хотели найти.
А верующие обычно искренни в своей вере. Они же не говорят "мы знаем", они говорят "мы верим".
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Yep. Happens all the time.
"Особенно раздражает"... Юпитер, ты сердишься, значит ты не прав.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
OK.
Leprechauns exist.
If you haven't found evidence for them, it is only because you haven't found it. You probably weren't looking hard enough. Or you weren't looking in the right places. Or you didn't want to find it.
Jackelopes exist.
If you haven't found evidence for them, it is only because you haven't found it. You probably weren't looking hard enough. Or you weren't looking in the right places. Or you didn't want to find it.
Santa Claus exists.
If you haven't found evidence for him, it is only because you haven't found it. You probably weren't looking hard enough. Or you weren't looking in the right places. Or you didn't want to find it.
What astonishes me about "all" believers is just how terrible they "all" are at critical thinking.
That's not true in my experience. You might be the first believer I've ever come across that says "I believe" instead of "I know in my hearty-heart".
Some atheists think they know, just like some believers.
Reread pinball's about pitting words in the mouths of atheists.
If you want to know what an atheist thinks or says, ask them.
Дэйв, а откуда в вашей голове взялось понятие о "леприконах", "джекалопах", и Санта - Клаусах? Ваш мозг способен создавать новых сущностей? Я думала, что он работает только с тем, что в него загрузили.
Я не могу спросить Пинбола, он со мной не разговаривает.