Trump 2.0

Common sense…

Tired of the crime ( car jacking, murders, illegal immigrants…)
20-30 million illegal aliens crossing the borders completely unvetted
Statistics show that since 1993 - 2022, crime rates decreased 71%. That said, murder rates increased during Trumps administration and decreased under Biden. You can see all those statistics here:


What about your claim of illegal immigration? Not even close:

The unauthorized immigrant population in the United States grew to 11.0 million in 2022, according to new Pew Research Center estimates based on the 2022 American Community Survey, the most recent year available. The increase from 10.5 million in 2021 reversed a long-term downward trend from 2007 to 2019. This is the first sustained increase in the unauthorized immigrant population since the period from 2005 to 2007.

However, the number of unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. in 2022 was still below the peak of 12.2 million in 2007.


As you can plainly see, anyone with "common sense" will do the fact checking to flush out the lies, which is exactly what you offered... lies.
 
To be clear, I'm 97 percent certain that I am addressing another person here and not a bot
If you're asking if Trek is a bot, we're confident he's a sock puppet of Jan Ardena, a God Botherer who has been around for at least ten years, left in a huff and has returned recently banging the same old drum.
 
I heard that before but wasn't sure, can't seem to link Jan with Trek, seems different, but maybe you're right. I just never suspected Jan would fall for the whole Maga movement and all that went with it. Jan was more laid back while Trek is more aggressive. Maybe Jan has me fooled. Well done.
 
But insofar as "image" and perceptions go, the underlying point is that the GOP has clearly embraced a strategy antithetical to the Southern Strategy. Where previously they employed coded dog-whistles and the like, now they just say exactly what they think and believe. Anyone confused--and especially those pretending to be confused--by this--
d465985d8608e5c370862791d83e77aebb8028fd.jpg


ought to just eat the bullet and spare us all.
But, there are voters on either side who don’t go that deep over the issues they’re voting on. I’m wondering if most voters just look at one or two major concerns, and they don’t think about what the rest of it might mean. Musk shouldn’t be in the role he’s in as a non-government employee, for example and I know Trump supporters who are against that. My point is, they couldn’t possibly know all the ins and outs of what Trump was going to do. Biden wasn’t a good president, either. I feel like we are in precedented times (people keep saying unprecedented, but I think there’s precedence for what’s unfolding right now) and I’m not sure where we go from here.

I don’t think anyone is coming to save us, though.
 
But, there are voters on either side who don’t go that deep over the issues they’re voting on. I’m wondering if most voters just look at one or two major concerns, and they don’t think about what the rest of it might mean. Musk shouldn’t be in the role he’s in as a non-government employee, for example and I know Trump supporters who are against that. My point is, they couldn’t possibly know all the ins and outs of what Trump was going to do. Biden wasn’t a good president, either. I feel like we are in precedented times (people keep saying unprecedented, but I think there’s precedence for what’s unfolding right now) and I’m not sure where we go from here.

I don’t think anyone is coming to save us, though.
All the signs were there, for anyone who bothered to read a bit. One might have thought, seeing as the guy actually tried to overturn the outcome of an election, that a bit of checking of his intentions this time was a good idea.

But a lot of people either did not do this or, more disturbingly, they thought an authoritarian autocracy, led by a 77yr old crook and sex predator without a good word to say about anyone, was just what they wanted. Looks to me as if the USA has given up on democracy and decided it wants arbitrary rule by a monarch for a change.

Trouble is, it tends to be a one-way street. One autocracy is established, you have devil of a job restoring democracy again. If the USA still has free and fair elections 4 years from now I shall be surprised.
 
If you're asking if Trek is a bot, we're confident he's a sock puppet of Jan Ardena, a God Botherer who has been around for at least ten years, left in a huff and has returned recently banging the same old drum.
Nah. Unfortunately, what I am really asking is when did so many people become virtually indistinguishable from bots? Astounding ignorance of history, policy, etc. does not necessarily preclude the capacity for critical thinking. But... when both are conspicuously absent, that doesn't necessarily preclude the ability to, at least, convey something, right? But... with a lot of people anymore, it's 0 for 3. Remember those two word prompt text adventures from back in the day, like Zork and Hitchhiker's Guide...? Seriously, those were vastly better "conversationalists" than a lot of people these days. That depresses the shit out of me.
 
All the signs were there, for anyone who bothered to read a bit. One might have thought, seeing as the guy actually tried to overturn the outcome of an election, that a bit of checking of his intentions this time was a good idea.
Or, as most Americans are functionally illiterate (as compared with citizens of other prosperous nations) anymore, anyone who bothered to listen to what the guy said on tv. Possessing some sense of "what the guy said" at one point or another hardly constitutes "go(ing) deep" in any sense. There is simply no excuse.

But a lot of people either did not do this or, more disturbingly, they thought an authoritarian autocracy, led by a 77yr old crook and sex predator without a good word to say about anyone, was just what they wanted. Looks to me as if the USA has given up on democracy and decided it wants arbitrary rule by a monarch for a change.

Trouble is, it tends to be a one-way street. One autocracy is established, you have devil of a job restoring democracy again. If the USA still has free and fair elections 4 years from now I shall be surprised.
Yeah. I read a piece recently in which the author argued that the most inane aspect of Hitler and Nazi comparisons here is that one can't really state anything definitively until you're actually there.. Then it's too late.
 
But, there are voters on either side who don’t go that deep over the issues they’re voting on. I’m wondering if most voters just look at one or two major concerns, and they don’t think about what the rest of it might mean. Musk shouldn’t be in the role he’s in as a non-government employee, for example and I know Trump supporters who are against that. My point is, they couldn’t possibly know all the ins and outs of what Trump was going to do.
??? So they were criminally ignorant and irresponsible and didn't bother to think through the consequences of their actions, and yet they voted anyway? Fuck them.
 
Also:
Biden wasn’t a good president, either.
You understand scope and scale, yes? No one particularly liked Biden all that much; in fact, I've never really known any Democrats, period. People (well, the sort of people I know) just tolerate them because they are the only acceptable alternative. Seriously, name this single policy matter that was so compelling as to preclude everything else with respect to Trump and which was neither pure idiocy/insanity/criminality nor simply fallacious and incorrect.
I feel like we are in precedented times (people keep saying unprecedented, but I think there’s precedence for what’s unfolding right now) and I’m not sure where we go from here.
Yes, the clearest precedent--as pretty much any informed and educated observer has already remarked--is post-Weimar Germany. Not Italy, and certainly not Japan--or Spain or any of the other countries to subsequently go that route either, for that matter. The clearest parallels are Germany.
 
Or, as most Americans are functionally illiterate (as compared with citizens of other prosperous nations) anymore, anyone who bothered to listen to what the guy said on tv. Possessing some sense of "what the guy said" at one point or another hardly constitutes "go(ing) deep" in any sense. There is simply no excuse.


Yeah. I read a piece recently in which the author argued that the most inane aspect of Hitler and Nazi comparisons here is that one can't really state anything definitively until you're actually there.. Then it's too late.
That's why I carefully avoid mentioning 1930s Germany. One doesn't want accusations of "hysteria". But not speaking out at the start was the error thinking Germans made, yes, certainly.
 
??? So they were criminally ignorant and irresponsible and didn't bother to think through the consequences of their actions, and yet they voted anyway? Fuck them.
Welcome to America.
 
It's really hard to recognize a lot of these things as people. I know I'm not supposed to say shit like that, but, seriously, "you people"?

I don't know if you would recall a period of internet discussion when people were enthusiastically arguing about each other's fallacies and citing various references, such as Nizkor. One of the questions about how that fell by the wayside is how many of those people ended up needing the fallacies in order to hold onto something dear to them.

Similarly, there is a reason his behavior is judged differently. Seriously, "Demonrats"? To the one, it's about as juvenile as history suggests we might expect from full-grown Trump supporters. To the other, we can only wonder how people would respond if he went off on "asseists" for their anti-christian dumpster fire.

†​

So here's the nasty, stupid truth: There are a couple things happening, here. First, we need to recognize that, in its way, progress is always a buzzkill for someone. People are willing to tolerate and even legitimize behavior like Trek's because despite everything else, they still have some Venn overlap with delusional rightism. Look at the conservative coalition: White masculine Christianism on a steady drip of capitalism. If we go back and consider why "Lorelei" was in any way a significant song, yes our societal attitudes toward unmarried cohabitation have changed and even progressed, but the old conservative attitudes remain in play.

It's one thing if conservatives, themselves, are determined to preserve old sexist values, but there are however many men out there still disgruntled because they don't have a woman. (Note: That would be, enough to get advocacy in the New York Times.)

And this is the part that feels really stupid; I don't know who recalls an old Family Guy bit when Stewie starts to tell someone a joke, then stops and looks around and, confident there are no black people in earshot, resumes telling the racist joke, at which point a black man steps out from behind a potted plant and asks what they're talking about. But, there you have it. What is right and correct really does sometimes kill the joke; plenty who think themselves not racist can sympathize with the fear of opprobium for doing this or that joke.

More than the joke, what if it is part of the argument? I come from a certain time: Damn straight, I'm a Libby! That was into the Eighties. It's one thing to say it, but I made it into the twenty-first century without understanding certain things about what it means. Had I blamed women every time I was wrong, I would probably sound like some of the folks, today, who are totally notamisogynist but continue to blame feminism for misogyny. (Or do I not "blame" feminism, but simply consider the point a legitimate argument because liberals and feminists fail to satisfy?)

Thirty years ago, there were notabigots who said they supported "gay rights", but thought gays were being too demanding. It was a microcosm of other equality struggles: Change was coming too fast, these middle-roaders suggested, so we needed to slow down; their argument was, quite simply, that for the sake of other people's feelings, millions of Americans should continue to suffer deprivation of civil and constitutional rights.

The argument that the only fair thing to do is maintain the unfairness has always been suspect. At least, you know, according its own pretenses. If, however, the principle is perpetually and eternally writ anew on blank slate, then the totally notasexist dude distressed at the cost and effort of finding a proper wife, or the utterly notaracist friend who points to right-wing crime stories—(¿Who remembers the Rockwell-Paul newsletters?)—and complains about having to hire unqualified people, will always find reason to sympathize with these attitudes, beliefs, and characters we are to believe they are not.

Taking them at face value, the problem is not that they support this or that supremacism, but that the argument against somehow fails to satisfy them.

And, somewhere in there, we are supposed to pass over the fact of their apparent default setting that accepts and permits that supremacism in society.

(Note the word "permit"; their posture implicitly grants permission. It's always about empowerment.)

†​

Oh, right, the other thing. This part also feels kind of ridiculous, but still: "Objectification". Yes, like we hear in feminist discourse.

The underlying pretense is that one is addressing a specious argument in order to debunk it. Whether in the world at large, or in small quarters like our community, such debunking is ineffective to the point of futility.

In the past, I've described the idea↗ of a whipping idol. Most days we might expect such behavior seeks empowerment to whip the idol, as such, but the other thing it can do is focus discourse on triviality.

By objectifying someone like Trek, we pretend his argument is important. But nothing about raising his behavior to focus requires that we actually regard it in any serious manner. And this, somehow, is the tricky part.

Because doing so raises a whipping idol; it also highlights and stakes a specious argument, including the appearance of legitimization that the specious argument is worthy of address. While the question of legitimization should be easily addressed, it somehow isn't.

And, sure, can feel ridiculous to say, but: What happens if the point is not to debunk or delegitimize the argument, but whip the idol? It seems too easy. There is, of course, the satisfaction of delivering blows. But there is also a pretense of appearing to do something useful.

Moreover, in the history of whipping idols, it has long seemed a question of easy targets, but another seemingly undeniable effect is that focus on such empty crackpottery forestalls more subtle and even complicated discussion. It's one thing to lash out and throw stones, but the more productive course of redirecting the discussion to better utility and integrity is also more difficult. It's like the question of supportable argument being an unfair expectation that suppresses political views, a means of silencing opposition. And if there seems some vagary in there about who such objections worry is actually being silenced, yeah, it's kind of hard to not notice. In the history of whipping idols, people with better arguments do not need whipping idols.

†​

Coming 'round, then, one reason why "it's really hard to recognize a lot of these things as people" is because some people just don't ever have to do better.

†​

Oh, right: On the point of being a Democrat, it is not impossible that you would vote for a Democrat in order to forestall rape and pillage; beyond that, conservatives like Trek seem generally unable to discern any actual differences. They can't tell the difference between, say, Chuck Schumer and Slavoj Žižek. And, really, how long has it been since they had to? It's one thing if Democrats keep creeping rightward in order to meet a bunch of their voters in more conservative states and districts, but conservatives view Democrats as extreme leftists, even when passing conservative bills like the ACA, FISA renewal, and DACA.

(Historical note for internationals: The "individual mandate" comes from the Heritage Foundation, was brought to law under Gov. Mitt Romney (R-MA), and was sponsored in the Senate by nineteen Republicans, with Bob Dole as its shepherd. The 2008 FISA renewal saw Democrats to the right of 1970s conservatives. DACA—the "Dreamers"—were originally a Bush administration proposal, and those extreme leftist Democrats have been begging for a chance to compromise and pass GOP border bills, now, for over seventeen years.)​

If they start to sound like bots, as such, it's because generative writing has caught up to their simplicity. I once wondered about the idea that someone wasn't a bot—(spoiler alert, already knew he was human)—because it became so hard for him to remember what happened thirty days, or even seventeen hours, before.

†​

Here's how easy and widespread it is: If I'm not at all surprised that Exchemist identified himself as a terf↗; there were signs↗, and part of the question is how we read them↗. When I told him, "whether it's you … or the NYT columnist, there is a simplistic presupposition in effect about what liberal critics are doing wrong", he was reciting and basing his argument on conservative make-believe, and the difference "is found in conservatives who are tired of being told they're wrong about pretty much everything, but have no solid argument to fall back on".

It should be an easy signpost: When the argument in defense is that conservatives are either sinister or stupid, that ought to mean something. It's one thing if, as you put it↗, "we got the word, might as well find a use for it", but the difference between recognizing the fact and accepting its meaning seems to raise fears of suppressing political views. And here, we can run around in circles, and to some degree that's part of the point.

But if the question is will or competency, that one is either unwilling or unable to honestly support their argument, the mere fact of the question, as well as the answer, ought to mean something.
 
Biden wasn’t a good president, either.
Just out of curiosity....
Who did you think was a good President?
Do you think Biden was a bad President?
On what basis/bases are you making these judgements?
What, to you, are the defining characteristics of a good President? Is it character? Is it policies that unite? Policies that speak only/mainly to their base? International respect? Economic prosperity (and if so, how is that determined, in your view)? Not dying on the job?

I'm honestly curious.
Thanks.
 
Just out of curiosity....
Who did you think was a good President?
Do you think Biden was a bad President?
On what basis/bases are you making these judgements?
What, to you, are the defining characteristics of a good President? Is it character? Is it policies that unite? Policies that speak only/mainly to their base? International respect? Economic prosperity (and if so, how is that determined, in your view)? Not dying on the job?

I'm honestly curious.
Thanks.
Hmm, I’d say someone who faces adversity and challenges with grace but determination to overcome them. Abraham Lincoln comes to mind.
I think that the US right now, is so divided on almost every issue, but I’d like to see a President who celebrates or at least, respects the melting pot of cultural differences that exist in the US, but tries to unite us as Americans. Not in a “nationalist” kind of way, but promoting the idea that we all can find common ground. I think our survival depends more on us trying to work together than any other factor.

I have a lot of thoughts on it, but sufficient to say that I don’t expect any administration to be all things to all people. We shouldn’t expect that.
 
The disgusting Nancy Mace went on Fox news and admitted prices will rise with Trumps trade war. I wonder how that registered in the minds of Republicans, if at all?
 
I don’t think Biden was a bad President, but he would have been the Democratic Party’s top choice for this last election cycle, if he was thought of as doing a great job.
 
Just out of curiosity....
Who did you think was a good President?
Do you think Biden was a bad President?
On what basis/bases are you making these judgements?
What, to you, are the defining characteristics of a good President? Is it character? Is it policies that unite? Policies that speak only/mainly to their base? International respect? Economic prosperity (and if so, how is that determined, in your view)? Not dying on the job?

I'm honestly curious.
Thanks.
What characteristics do you think are necessary to be President?
 
Hmm, I’d say someone who faces adversity and challenges with grace but determination to overcome them. Abraham Lincoln comes to mind.
I think that the US right now, is so divided on almost every issue, but I’d like to see a President who celebrates or at least, respects the melting pot of cultural differences that exist in the US, but tries to unite us as Americans. Not in a “nationalist” kind of way, but promoting the idea that we all can find common ground. I think our survival depends more on us trying to work together than any other factor.
And you don't think Biden did that?
Honestly, I'm curious as to why you thought he was not a good President. He faced adversity in that he took over an economy that was ravaged by the pandemic, and the US recovered the quickest in terms of inflation than any other larger economy. So, what was it that made him not good? Or was it just that you feel there was nothing either good or bad? I.e. you don't think he was good, but also not bad?

Given your criteria, I'm surprised you would consider any Democrat to not be a good President, to be honest. Their weakness at the polls, from my outsider perspective, is that they are too accommodating and looking to bridge the divide, that they come across as weak to both sides.
I have a lot of thoughts on it, but sufficient to say that I don’t expect any administration to be all things to all people. We shouldn’t expect that.
Sure, that's almost a truism, if not actually one. But it doesn't help explain why you don't think Biden was a good President? What could he have done to be one, in your view?
I'm an outsider, and my view was that he was a pretty good President, so am genuinely intrigued as to why a non-MAGA might think he wasn't good. (And I'm assuming that you aren't MAGA?) ;)
 
I don’t think Biden was a bad President, but he would have been the Democratic Party’s top choice for this last election cycle, if he was thought of as doing a great job.
That's not true. Time takes it's effect on all of us, and by the end he was clearly not capable of lasting another term. But that is not to diminish what he achieved during his term.

To give you an analogy:
If your best player for one season broke their leg and clearly wouldn't ever be able to play properly again, would you put him in your team the next season?
 
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