Tariffs - the most beautiful word in the dictionary

sculptor said:
With stocks: You only gain or lose when you sell. If you buy dividend socks, you continue to gain regardless of the current stock price.
What the day to day--week to week -month to month variations in stock prices becomes meaningless.
Don't worry, be happy.
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I've got to get me some of those dividend socks. Is that what the billionaires wear?
 
exchemist said:
I think we have to stop using that outmoded title “leader of the free world”. Trump’s USA has telegraphed it no longer has any interest in that - and is rapidly abandon those principles at home. The baton passes now to the EU to show leadership on democratic values and the impartial rule of law.
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Baton meaning "well-deserved dildo".

You've all wanted Godzilla, so be it.

Run, hide; at night, stay under your principles to keep warm.

The sleeper has awakened.
 
billvon said:
He sees tariffs as a way to force all manufacturing, mining etc to be in the US. This will, of course, result in a huge recession, since the US cannot cost effectively make a lot of consumer goods. (And tariffs drive up prices of American manufactured goods as well.) So the cycle will go:

-High tariffs drive up cost of consumer goods
--Rich people don't care
--Middle class people lose money; they start depleting their savings to continue to buy what they need
--The poor simply starve/do without.

-Fewer people buying goods = fewer manufacturing jobs
--Unemployment rises
--Overall US economic output goes down

-Higher tariffs are needed as US companies fail and foreign companies become the sole source for some goods
--Consumer goods rise in price again
--Return to top of list



That will be the effect, but not the plan.
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river said:
For me I would just tariff all vehicles that come from US to Canada , 25% .

I get what trump is doing , fine . But he has no idea of the implications . He does now though .

And its going to take 5 to10yrs , to change .
The infrastructure , transportation ( railways ) , pipelines , power grids , buildings will take yrs . Its going to take a good while to change .

And meanwhile Europe , Asia and Canada are changing their thinking towards the US .

In the End the US could find its self a smaller part of the global economy .
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"The infrastructure , transportation ( railways ) , pipelines , power grids , buildings will take yrs . Its going to take a good while to change ."

Musk builds fully functional manufacturing facilities in 18 months, or less; for EV's, rockets, tunneling machines, space-based internet networks, batteries, ... , Etc.

EU is still sitting on in its A6, as if it's stimulating the EU economy in even the smallest sort of way.

"And meanwhile Europe , Asia and Canada are changing their thinking towards the US .

In the End the US could find its self a smaller part of the global economy."

Not global, just all yours.
 
Seattle said:
Why would the billionaires be OK if margins are being squeezed and if there is more inflation (or a recession)? Or are you just saying the obvious that billionaires will be OK because they are billionaires?
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Because they will benefit from the tax cuts that are financed by the tariff revenue paid in by all the little people. At least, that seems to be the Trumpy plan.
 
Mr. G said:
Musk builds fully functional manufacturing facilities in 18 months, or less; for EV's, rockets, tunneling machines, space-based internet networks, batteries, ... , Etc.
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And science? Musk took his chainsaw to all those grants and research projects remember?
Sean Carroll visited here recently and said PhDs and post docs were actively being discouraged from applying to US Universities due to the current situation there.
That is bad for science generally but will not be good for US science and Industry especially. You want the brightest PhDs to come to your city, spend money stimulate the local economy then stick around and stimulate industry and academia. That was way future minds are stimulated when that guy gets a teaching job or gets involved in new technology.
Those PhDs will most likely be staying in Europe. Stimulate stuff here instead.
 
Seattle said:
Why would the billionaires be OK if margins are being squeezed and if there is more inflation (or a recession)? Or are you just saying the obvious that billionaires will be OK because they are billionaires?
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Its the obvious: that billionaires will be okay because even if they lose half their net worth due to a recessionor inflation, they'd still have 500 million as a minimum. 500 million is more than enough to "be OK". If someone has 4 billion then halving it will leave them with a paltry 2 billion, even if they're unemployed.
Now compare that to someone who is working for, say, 50k a year, not very much in the way of savings, and the cost of basic amenities and health insurance takes up all of their post-tax income...losing a job, or even just higher prices, puts them at risk of "not being OK".
So, yeah, billionaires will still be okay.
 
exchemist said:
Because they will benefit from the tax cuts that are financed by the tariff revenue paid in by all the little people. At least, that seems to be the Trumpy plan.
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It's not even whether they benefit it not, but how one suffers through a downturn. Having more wealth than they could spend before and seeing that drop to more wealth than they could spend is not my idea of suffering. If that's what it means to suffer: bring it on! That billionaires come out the other side even better off than before us just insult to injury for the others.
 
Seattle said:
You can do that too but if they stock market is going down, all their wealth in the market is going down too. So why does this just apply to billionaires?
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Because billionaires can afford to invest in financial instruments that make them money no matter what the market does.
 
exchemist said:
Because they will benefit from the tax cuts that are financed by the tariff revenue paid in by all the little people. At least, that seems to be the Trumpy plan.
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The tax "cuts" are just the rates that they have been paying for the last 4 years or more.
 
Sarkus said:
Its the obvious: that billionaires will be okay because even if they lose half their net worth due to a recessionor inflation, they'd still have 500 million as a minimum. 500 million is more than enough to "be OK". If someone has 4 billion then halving it will leave them with a paltry 2 billion, even if they're unemployed.
Now compare that to someone who is working for, say, 50k a year, not very much in the way of savings, and the cost of basic amenities and health insurance takes up all of their post-tax income...losing a job, or even just higher prices, puts them at risk of "not being OK".
So, yeah, billionaires will still be okay.
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Yes, OK but so what. I will be "OK' if I lost half of my money but I'm still not going to be in favor of a policy that will cut my assets in half. No one would be in favor of that. All you are saying is that poor people has less than richer people. OK, of course but so what. You have more than someone who has less than you.
 
billvon said:
Because billionaires can afford to invest in financial instruments that make them money no matter what the market does.
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So can millionaires and thousandaires and everyone in the country except the poorest of the poor.
 
Seattle said:
Yes, OK but so what. I will be "OK' if I lost half of my money but I'm still not going to be in favor of a policy that will cut my assets in half. No one would be in favor of that. All you are saying is that poor people has less than richer people. OK, of course but so what. You have more than someone who has less than you.
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It's about who will bear the brunt of these tariffs, not in terms of % of wealth but in terms of actual physical hardships, reduction in lifestyle, whether they'll keep lose their job as a result, whether they can afford things that others might take for granted. Hint: it's really not going to the billionaires.
 
Companies can weather storm for while, protecting jobs but from experience this can only last so long. Profitability declines, raw materials go up there is only one place a company can save money, people.

They consolidate = people lose jobs
Down size = people lose jobs
Remove the less profitable pars of the business = People lose jobs
Mergers = people lose jobs.

People lose jobs they foreclose on mortgage, unable to pay back loans. Those same people certainly will not be out spending money, buying cars going on holiday and stimulating the economy.

Perhaps Trump meant MABA- Making America Broke again?
 
Pinball1970 said:
Companies can weather storm for while, protecting jobs but from experience this can only last so long. Profitability declines, raw materials go up there is only one place a company can save money, people.

They consolidate = people lose jobs
Down size = people lose jobs
Remove the less profitable pars of the business = People lose jobs
Mergers = people lose jobs.

People lose jobs they foreclose on mortgage, unable to pay back loans. Those same people certainly will not be out spending money, buying cars going on holiday and stimulating the economy.

Perhaps Trump meant MABA- Making America Broke again?
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Нет, Трамп хочет забрать работу у китайцев, и отдать её своим. Вы не задумывались - почему для нескольких миллиардов китайцев работа есть, а для амприканцев или европейцев, которых в разы меньше, работы нет?
 
ольга said:
Нет, Трамп хочет забрать работу у китайцев, и отдать её своим. Вы не задумывались - почему для нескольких миллиардов китайцев работа есть, а для амприканцев или европейцев, которых в разы меньше, работы нет?
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You know the score Olga.
Everyone is kind, patient and translates for you except this grumpy horrible old Englishman.
 
ольга said:
No, Trump wants to take jobs from the Chinese and give them to his own. Have you ever wondered why there is work for several billion Chinese, but there is no work for Americans or Europeans, who are much fewer?
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The US has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world at c.4.1%. UK isn't far behind at 4.4%, and China is lagging slightly at 5.4%. So where is this "no work for Americans or Europeans" compared to China?

Unemployment Rate - Countries - List

This page displays a table with actual values, consensus figures, forecasts, statistics and historical data charts for - Unemployment Rate. This page provides values for Unemployment Rate reported in several countries. The table has current values for Unemployment Rate, previous releases...
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Trump may want to give jobs to his own countrymen, but the cost of that is higher price of goods. That's okay, if the US want to buy US-made toasters at $100 a time, while the rest of the world pay just $20 for Chinese-made.
 
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Headlines - They use the words "plunge, dived and Tumbled

Dow Jones Futures Today

Dow Jones futures fell 2.8% vs. fair value. S&P 500 futures plunged 3.3%. Nasdaq 100 futures dived 3.7%.

Crude oil futures skidded 6%. OPEC+ agreed to a larger-than-expected May production increase, adding to crude's slide.

The 10-year Treasury yield tumbled to 4.07%.

The U.S. dollar plunged.

The Challenger job-cut report reported 275,240 planned layoffs were announced in March, up 60% from 172,017 in February and the highest since May 2020. Federal job cuts related to Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency dominated
 
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