Omicron- A friend or a foe??

Because the spike proteins are significantly different on Omicron.
But Ace2 and TMPRSS 2 is sane in both Covid19/Delta and Omicron. Either these two types should infect similarily or shoud neither infect lower nor upper respiratory tract
All immunity (non-vaccine immunity at least) is a crap shoot. You don't know what your immune system initially recognized.
Means, nothing about immune response or immune protection on Omicron infection is yet clear? I.e. if soecific IgM and IgG antibodies are generated or not, if immunological memory after infection is achieved or not?
If so how it can happen? Does our defence mechanisn do not consider that omicron is a harmful virus esp for long term?
 
But Ace2 and TMPRSS 2 is sane in both Covid19/Delta and Omicron. Either these two types should infect similarily or shoud neither infect lower nor upper respiratory tract
ACE2 is a HUMAN protein that is susceptible to SARS-CoV-2. Not a viral protein. A human protein. So of course it won't infect anything.

TMPRSS 2 is similar.
Means, nothing about immune response or immune protection on Omicron infection is yet clear?
Then I suggest a little more study of the topic.
 
ACE2 is a HUMAN protein that is susceptible to SARS-CoV-2. Not a viral protein. A human protein. So of course it won't infect anything.

TMPRSS 2 is similar.
Sorry a bounce. I meant these proteins in himan are expressed both in upper and lower respiratory tract. Than how it become possible Omicron virus to agressively infect just in upper tract but not in lower tract? Covid Delta infect both agressively.

Then I suggest a little more study of the topic.

This charecteristic of Omicron virus creat doubt, how our body take Omicrron virus..a friend or foe:

"
Omicron can produce immunity able to neutralise Delta as well, making re-infection with Delta less likely, whereas immunity from Delta provides only limited protection against Omicron, meaning Omicron may re-infect individuals with a prior Delta infection
https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/how-omicron-make-other-variants-less-dangerous "


Virus coopies are made by using virus and our genetic material. Why it can not be oossible few virus variant is pursued by our body for its survival benefit against ehich body does not generate immune response?
 
… though dogs are also dangerous to us but still they are considered friendly to human beings due to their lesser severity than lions. Ssne with covid 19/Delta vs Omicron.

I think what stands out is the desperation. The desperate need to find a friend in Covid 19 Omicron is unsettling.

People can bring you whatever science, but you're determined to simply make believe in order to invent a context by which Covid 19 Omicron is somehow friendly: Why?

Why are you doing this?

Why are you trying to hurt people?

Why would you promote this kind of wishful, dangerous fancy?

Here we are, these days laer, and you're still at it:

This charecteristic of Omicron virus creat doubt, how our body take Omicrron virus..a friend or foe:

The only increased immunity you seem to be developing is to science. It's not a healthy circumstance.
 
Because the spike proteins are significantly different on Omicron.
Doés it mean spike orotein on virus recognize Ace2 and TMPRSS2 in upper respiratory tract but bot these in lower resoiratory tract? Will it mean that these two are different types in these two tracts?

All immunity (non-vaccine immunity at least) is a crap shoot. You don't know what your immune system initially recognized.
Then, can it also be possible that Immunity either do not shooot or shoit by considering Omicron virus as friendly or non enemy?
 
I think what stands out is the desperation. The desperate need to find a friend in Covid 19 Omicron is unsettling.

People can bring you whatever science, but you're determined to simply make believe in order to invent a context by which Covid 19 Omicron is somehow friendly: Why?

Why are you doing this?

Why are you trying to hurt people?

Why would you promote this kind of wishful, dangerous fancy?

Here we are, these days laer, and you're still at it:



The only increased immunity you seem to be developing is to science. It's not a healthy circumstance.
It's because he's an antivaxxer and a dabbler in bogus medicine, including but possibly not restricted to homeopathy. Previous posts in other threads have shown this.

For example: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/static-energy-electricity.159824/page-6
 
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Doés it mean spike orotein on virus recognize Ace2 and TMPRSS2 in upper respiratory tract but bot these in lower resoiratory tract? Will it mean that these two are different types in these two tracts?
No and no.
Then, can it also be possible that Immunity either do not shooot or shoit by considering Omicron virus as friendly or non enemy?
Immunity is a complex topic, so deciding that the entire issue is whether immunity "shoots" or "does not shoot" by recognizing a single thing on a virus is a vast oversimplification.
 
No and no.
Sorry then this issue is still unclear to me. Say how a glass of water drank by two people, in one it reach to stomach via mouth in other not.

Immunity is a complex topic, so deciding that the entire issue is whether immunity "shoots" or "does not shoot" by recognizing a single thing on a virus is a vast oversimplification.
Then nothing really valid in absolute can be decided. One is if it us friend or a foe. We could able to judge immune response against Covid 19 and Delta quite early but just confused sbout Omicron. Probably it us opposite type.
 
I think what stands out is the desperation. The desperate need to find a friend in Covid 19 Omicron is unsettling.

People can bring you whatever science, but you're determined to simply make believe in order to invent a context by which Covid 19 Omicron is somehow friendly: Why?

Why are you doing this?

Why are you trying to hurt people?

Why would you promote this kind of wishful, dangerous fancy?

Here we are, these days laer, and you're still at it:



The only increased immunity you seem to be developing is to science. It's not a healthy circumstance.
No. I am not hurting or intend to hurt anyone. I am júst looming both dides of a still unclear thing. I think you have not read it in my previous post:
"Omicron can produce immunity able to neutralise Delta as well, making re-infection with Delta less likely, whereas immunity from Delta provides only limited protection against Omicron, meaning Omicron may re-infect individuals with a prior Delta infection
https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/how-omicron-make-other-variants-less-dangerous"
What it suggest?
 
Sorry then this issue is still unclear to me. Say how a glass of water drank by two people, in one it reach to stomach via mouth in other not.
Let's explain it this way.

You drink a glass of water with pathogens in it. You might get an infection in your esophagus if it's candida (a fungus.) You might get an infection in your GI tract if it's salmonella (a bacteria.) It may pass through your body without causing an infection. It may even enter your body, live in your intestines, and do you some good (e coli in naive GI tracts.)

Do you understand how those are all different? That even though all those things are considered pathogens, they may up in different places and do different things?
Then nothing really valid in absolute can be decided.
In the sense of reducing immunology to a simple Internet meme - that is correct.
One is if it us friend or a foe.
That's easy. Foe. It will kill tens of thousands. That makes it our enemy, even if we're immune to it afterwards.
Omicron can produce immunity able to neutralise Delta as well, making re-infection with Delta less likely
Who cares? Delta is responsible for a rapidly diminishing number of cases.

What you DO care about is how much immunity omicron confers to the rho (i.e. the next) variant. So how much will it confer?
 
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Let's explain it this way.

You drink a glass of water with pathogens in it. ..
Thanks. But we are not talking about different virus but talking about variant of same virus. It should demonstrate some resemblance with its origional one. Ok, can we take Omicron as a weaker variant to its origionals shoeing reducing trend in severity esp in proportion to its previous variants?

?

In the sense of reducing immunology to a simple Internet meme - that is correct.
Many times wild search also contribute esp if it look bit logical. Everything is not yet clear in absolute in science. And apple falling logic contributed so much.

That's easy. Foe. It will kill tens of thousands. That makes it our enemy, even if we're immune to it afterwards.

Who cares? Delta is responsible for a rapidly diminishing number of cases.

What you DO care about is how much immunity omicron confers to the rho (i.e. the next) variant. So how much will it confer?
In proportion to total infected it is quite less, in severity, in symptoms, in its penetration, in its recovery period and last but not least in its overriding its past more severe varisnts, it is less serious if not beneficial. Ss you told above if Delta shown rapidly decreasing numbers we can say probably this virus is showing decreasing trend in harming us. Wish probably next variants may be more safer leading to harmless variant on ultimate edp if its orogresdion is nit natural. Virus also get all three types of mutations...beneficial, neutral or harmful. Moreover they also contain some of our materials and may want to survive and exist for long which is only possible if its host survive and exist for long. Good luck.
 
Thanks. But we are not talking about different virus but talking about variant of same virus.
Correct. And if you understand that different pathogens target different tissue types, then you should have no problem understanding that different virus variants will targets different tissues as well. And in this case, it still targets cells in both locations - it just now replicates more rapidly in the upper respiratory tissues.
It should demonstrate some resemblance with its origional one.
It does. It still targets both types of lung tissue. It's not like it suddenly started infecting peripheral nervous tissue or something.
Many times wild search also contribute esp if it look bit logical.
I disagree. Wild guesses don't have much place in science. INFORMED guesses have a much higher success rate.
Everything is not yet clear in absolute in science. And apple falling logic contributed so much.
I assume you are talking about Newton. The important part of that story was that it happened to Newton, a genius of his time who had already invented calculus. It's not the apple that is key there.
In proportion to total infected it is quite less, in severity, in symptoms, in its penetration, in its recovery period
Agreed. But if it is half as fatal and four times as contagious, it will still kill twice as many people.

And we don't even know that it's half as fatal. It SEEMS that way - but that could also be because we are better at masking and vaccinating.
you told above if Delta shown rapidly decreasing numbers we can say probably this virus is showing decreasing trend in harming us.
That's a better way to say it. And if the death rate goes down, I would agree with you.

It is currently going up.
 
And in this case, it still targets cells in both locations - it just now replicates more rapidly in the upper respiratory tissues.

Does it mean Omicron also infect and replicate in lower respiratory tract similar to Covid 19 or Delta but replicate more rapidly just in upper respiratory tract? Then people should have got severe infections at par or more than its previous variants in number? Is it observed?

It does. It still targets both types of lung tissue. It's not like it suddenly started infecting peripheral nervous tissue or something.

Does it mean Omicron is weaker strain than its previous variants so lag behind in race i.e. penetration in deep tissues?

]quote]I disagree. Wild guesses don't have much place in science. INFORMED guesses have a much higher success rate.
I assume you are talking about Newton. The important part of that story was that it happened to Newton, a genius of his time who had already invented calculus. It's not the apple that is key there.[/quote]
Something is better than nothing. Say foe example, three friends were quite hungry thought to go to a nearby jungle(wild place) to get some fruits. All were not knowing how to climb a tree and pluck the fruits. One went and collected many fallen fruits without much efforts. 2nd one also went shake the trees and plucked fruits by throwing some stone wildly and got still more fruits. 3rd one bit lazy and planned one thought I do not know tree climbing and plucking the fruits. Sp ist I shall learn these and than on;y I will go now why to waste time unnecessarily. So just sit at home and got no fruit so starved. What is rational here?

Agreed. But if it is half as fatal and four times as contagious, it will still kill twice as many people.
And we don't even know that it's half as fatal. It SEEMS that way - but that could also be because we are better at masking and vaccinating.

I think ration is 1:4/5 in contagious and just .5 percent in severity and .2 percent in death. Not so?


That's a better way to say it. And if the death rate goes down, I would agree with you.

It is currently going up.

In proportion to total infected it is going down. Probably proportion is a better estimation.
 
Does it mean Omicron also infect and replicate in lower respiratory tract similar to Covid 19 or Delta but replicate more rapidly just in upper respiratory tract?
Yes. Slower in lower respiratory tract, faster in upper tract during in vitro studies.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-...imes-faster-than-delta-in-bronchi-study-69540
Does it mean Omicron is weaker strain than its previous variants so lag behind in race i.e. penetration in deep tissues?
Nope. That's just an example of how it's different than previous strains.

In proportion to total infected it is going down. Probably proportion is a better estimation.
Right. But because of the higher infection rate it is killing more people.
 
Yes. Slower in lower respiratory tract, faster in upper tract during in vitro studies.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-...imes-faster-than-delta-in-bronchi-study-69540

Nope. That's just an example of how it's different than previous strains.


Right. But because of the higher infection rate it is killing more people.

Thanks for link. It is clear now. However we may need to go into detailed history about Virus behavaiour. Does it go on diminishing its severity in its survival benefit i.e survive by surviving its hosts. Somewhat Live and let live....esp if their survival is not threatened.

Moreover, we may also need to understand that since virus in making its copies use our material, can that material also impact characteristic of new variants in our benefit?

We may need to see the published data on that Omicron is killing more people even in number than its preceding variants.
 
No. I am not hurting or intend to hurt anyone

Coin toss: If heads means I don't believe you, tails means I accept the implications of believing you; it becomes a question of whether your behavior is sinister or stupid.

Consider your insistence↑: "Then nothing really valid in absolute can be decided. One is if it [is] friend or a foe."

This is either low-grade wordplay ("nothing really valid in absolute") or blithering ignorance ("if it is as friend or foe"). Again, there is no context by which Covid 19 is a friend. Simply holding out on an article of faith, insisting on some pretense of uninformed uncertainty, is dangerously stupid:

Moreover, we may also need to understand that since virus in making its copies use our material, can that material also impact characteristic of new variants in our benefit?

We may need to see the published data on that Omicron is killing more people even in number than its preceding variants.

You've been told↑, before↑ about other aspects of Covid infection, but seem inclined to ignore those considerations because they are inconvenient to starry-eyed romanticism.

While the raw death toll projections eye numbers suggesting fifteen percent comparative death rate to Delta, the fact of over tenfold comparative infection rate for Omicron expects a higher number of dead for this variant.

Meanwhile, the United States now faces an even more grim potential:

One researcher is predicting that the U.S. will experience the highest death rate from the omicron variant than many other developed nations, despite the variant being less severe.

Eric Topol, a professor of molecular medicine at Scripps Research Institute, tweeted a series of data points that compared the daily COVID-19 case count and deaths per million people for seven large nations. Topol said the U.S. has a much higher baseline of deaths per capita because there was a relative lack of containment during an earlier surge of the delta variant and a lack of vaccinations.


(Ali↱)

Beyond the death tolls, though, it seems absurd to describe future treatment of diabetes and kidney disease as friendly outcomes. And we also come back to what NIH Director Collins reminded, last year, about SARS-CoV-2 and blood clotting, because the news out of South Africa, two weeks ago brings important insight:

"A recent study in my lab revealed that there is significant microclot formation in the blood of both acute COVID-19 and long COVID patients," Resia Pretorius, head of the science department at Stellenbosch University in South Africa, wrote Wednesday in an op-ed.

Pretorius writes that healthy bodies are typically able to efficiently break down blood clots through a process called fibrinolysis. But, when looking at blood from long COVID-19 patients, "persistent microclots are resistant to the body's own fibrinolytic processes."

Pretorius' team in an analysis over the summer found high levels of inflammatory molecules "trapped" in the persistent microclots observed in long COVID-19 patients, which may be preventing the breakdown of clots.

Because of that, cells in the body's tissues may not be getting enough oxygen to sustain regular bodily functions, a condition known as cellular hypoxia.


(Migdon↱)

There is no reasonable definition of friend, friendly, or friendship that applies, here.

And that's the problem: There are myriad questions about Covid 19 variations, and how the disease works, and its implications this side of mortality, but trying to frame this range as a question of friend or foe requires an extraordinary pretense of friendship not otherwise functionally tenable. Again↑: There is no manner of calling Covid 19 Omicron a friend that does not require an extraordinary definition of friendship. The idea that the question would even be structured as such very nearly seems to be its own question. And this persistent↑, even desperate↑ need to find a friend in Omicron really does become a question all its own.

The differences between Covid 19 variations are important to understanding how to respond collectively; as a public health consideration, this is one quickly ascending to the importance of a question for our species. The idea of disease management strategy at a public health scale is actually kind of soul-searing, but nowhere in trying to figure out how to bargain between death and chronic illness can the human species afford to pretend some kind of friendship with this or any variation of SARS-Cov-2.

What can be assessed to be a benefit of disruptive evolution is determined many generations later, and there is nothing about the time and circumstance of disruption that ought to be considered friendly. And while there is no eugenic pretense to adequately justify such danger in our moment, neither is the superstition of seeking friendship in Covid 19 Omicron so comprehensive or even thoughtful.
____________________

Notes:

Ali, Shirin. "Why the US could have a higher death rate from omicron than other countries". The Hill. 11 January 2022. TheHill.com. 17 January 2022. https://bit.ly/3Iu2H6P

Migdon, Brooke. "South African scientist thinks she may have solved the mystery of long COVID-19, which afflicts 100M people". The Hill. 5 January 2022. TheHill.com. 17 January 2022. https://bit.ly/3A4UTFv
 
It's not so much that Twitter is inflicting an unusual amount of bad news; this is kind of how it goes:

Omicron exacerbates chronic illnesses such as CVD, CKD, COPD, cancer etc. In cardiology, we have seen increased heart attacks in those with COVID-19 that can present weeks later. So, let"s stop with incidental COVID-19 narrative already.

(@BAshbyMD↱)

‡​

… Top UK scientist warns that "In the last week—there's now evidence that T-cells…get damaged the same way that HIV and other RNA-virus damage T-cell immunity" …

(@DrEricDing↱)

Those were waiting for me, today, just because. If I actually go looking for the updates, there isn't really a whole lot of good news, just degrees of more or less bad news.

That's two doctors. And this is Omicron.
 
Does it go on diminishing its severity in its survival benefit i.e survive by surviving its hosts. Somewhat Live and let live....esp if their survival is not threatened.
Nope. The virus is more "I will live and you will die." Deaths have increased from an average of 900/day in November to 1800 a day today.
Moreover, we may also need to understand that since virus in making its copies use our material, can that material also impact characteristic of new variants in our benefit?
Again, no. It takes over human cells to reproduce itself; that does not benefit us.
We may need to see the published data on that Omicron is killing more people even in number than its preceding variants.
You can look here:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
 
It's not so much that Twitter is inflicting an unusual amount of bad news; this is kind of how it goes:

Omicron exacerbates chronic illnesses such as CVD, CKD, COPD, cancer etc. In cardiology, we have seen increased heart attacks in those with COVID-19 that can present weeks later. So, let"s stop with incidental COVID-19 narrative already.

(@BAshbyMD↱)

‡​

.​
It made me to think and evaluate some personal experience. These things happen on getting Covid 19. 1. Progression of Infection and its complications. 2. Medication 3. Immunity developed post infection esp antibody related. In addition to these, antibodies/ immunity developed by Vaccination.

Don't we need to check all these factors as real responsible factor to better understand about post-Covid 19 infection complication?
 
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