Good and Evil.

I'm not really interested in a pissing contest between believers and atheists as a decider who is right in this discussion. Spirituality is a deeply personal thing and - unless you plan on using it as an argument in your case - has no business coming into it.

Olga would like to convince us that God is there and all we have to do is want to believe in him and he will appear. (I don't entirely disagree with this. I am sure God will appear before those who want to see him - I'm just not convinced that he exists outside the minds of those people.)

Q would have us believe this is all "childish". Well, not really. A large majority of adults are believers, therefore belief is certainly an adult behaviour. But I would say it is irrational. Olga shows us this when she says God will appear if we want him to (this is a wishful thinking fallacy), and Olga doesn't offer any reasons why anyone should be convinced by what she believes to be true i.e. so far it is an entirely subjective experience.

I don't care of Flew kissed the ring of the Pope; this is not a popularity contest - argument by authority is a fallacy. If Olga would like to present Flew's argument, we can see if it holds any water.
Дэйв, а почему Вы отделяете себя от Бога? Бог во всём, и в Вас тоже. Даже в Псалтире есть слова: "Вы - Боги, и сыновья Вышняго вси есть". Вера даёт вам право считать себя кем то большим, чем просто "навозом для будущих поколений". Так зачем же себя самоуничижать?
 
Dave, why do you separate yourself from God?
I do not.

Why do you separate yourself from leprechauns?

God is in everything, including you.
Remember above, where Q said
You offer only childish arguments and yet believe yourself to be an intellectual. Typical believer.
Well, you're doing the same thing every believer does: it is called begging the question, more specifically known as assuming the conclusion in the premise.

Your statement assumes god is true. Yet you offer no objective evidence of this.

Leprechauns are in everything, including you. Why do you not accept them into your heart?

Pixie dust is in everything, including you. It will reveal it self to you if you wish hard enough.


Faith gives you the right to consider yourself more than just "dung for future generations."
I already have the right to consider myself whatever I want. I don't need permission. Ask yourself why you belittle yourself by needing permission.



I am disappointed in you. Not surprised, just disappointed. I knew it was coming; you telegraphed your ultimate agenda plenty enough that I knew you would get around to it.

It is as if every believer has a switch in their head that's connected to their priest or whoever. They talk rationally and intelligently for a while and then their priest says "That's enough of that!" and flips the switch.

And the believer stops thinking, and starts spouting their programming. "God is in everything. He will reveal himself if you just let him." without the slightest shame in its gaslighting condescension. All that schooling you took to learn how to think rationally, with evidence-based argument, and you just threw it away.

You are exactly the same as any other believer, you just pretended for longer than most.

Good-bye, Thinking-Olga; hello Robot-Olga.

On Ignore - :click:
 
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I do not.

Why do you separate yourself from leprechauns?


Remember above, where Q said

Well, you're doing the same thing every believer does: it is called begging the question, more specifically known as assuming the conclusion in the premise.

Your statement assumes god is true. Yet you offer no objective evidence of this.

Leprechauns are in everything, including you. Why do you not accept them into your heart?

Pixie dust is in everything, including you. It will reveal it self to you if you wish hard enough.



I already have the right to consider myself whatever I want. I don't need permission. Ask yourself why you belittle yourself by needing permission.



I am disappointed in you. Not surprised, just disappointed. I knew it was coming; you telegraphed your ultimate agenda plenty enough that I knew you would get around to it.

It is as if every believer has a switch in their head that's connected to their priest or whoever. They talk rationally and intelligently for a while and then their priest says "That's enough of that!" and flips the switch.

And the believer stops thinking, and starts spouting their programming. "God is in everything. He will reveal himself if you just let him." without the slightest shame in its gaslighting condescension. All that schooling you took to learn how to think rationally, with evidence-based argument, and you just threw it away.

You are exactly the same as any other believer, you just pretended for longer than most.

Good-bye, Thinking-Olga; hello Robot-Olga.

On Ignore - :click:
Повеселил. Я не оправдала Ваших ожиданий? А должна была?
Вы не верите, что Бог существует? Откройте Библию, или прочитайте молитву Отче Наш. Что вы увидели? "Бог есть сущий", т.е. существующий. Вы сомневаетесь в существовании Вселенной? Или в вашем собственном существовании? Ну, это Ваше право.
 
My parents grew up in the atheistic USSR.
Christianity thrived in the soviet union, but it had to go behind closed doors and not out in public. With that part, I can agree it's a good idea.
I wasn't even baptized as a child, I was baptized when I was already quite conscious.
You appear completely indoctrinated and most likely are. One does not need to be baptized in order to be indoctrinated.
So, I didn't have any religious upbringing.
Yeah, I don't but that.
Regarding scientists "of that time": open at least Wikipedia and look at the list of famous scientists of our time who are believers. You will probably be surprised. Among them are biologists, physicists, chemists, paleontologists, and representatives of all other sciences. Faith does not depend on education or upbringing.
Education and upbringing do indeed have a very strong influence on ones faith. When a person educates themselves on the world around them, they come to the realization that gods are not required for anything, that nature itself provides answers. Gods are irrelevant, hence they are a personal thingy, like leprechauns, ghosts and things that go bump in the night.
Pinball and Dave are an example of this - both grew up in religious families, but did not become believers.
They educated themselves, something you should do.
 
You made me laugh. Did I not live up to your expectations? Should I have?
You don't believe that God exists? Open the Bible, or read the Lord's Prayer. What do you see? "God is the being", i.e. existing. Do you doubt the existence of the Universe? Or your own existence? Well, that's your right.
Open Lord of the Rings, What do you see? Orcs, wizards, elves and hobbits existing. Do you doubt the existence of Middle Earth?
 
Christianity thrived in the soviet union, but it had to go behind closed doors and not out in public. With that part, I can agree it's a good idea.

You appear completely indoctrinated and most likely are. One does not need to be baptized in order to be indoctrinated.

Yeah, I don't but that.

Education and upbringing do indeed have a very strong influence on ones faith. When a person educates themselves on the world around them, they come to the realization that gods are not required for anything, that nature itself provides answers. Gods are irrelevant, hence they are a personal thingy, like leprechauns, ghosts and things that go bump in the night.

They educated themselves, something you should do.
Я могу то же самое сказать про вас - вы кажетесь полностью внушённым.

Я не собираюсь быть "вечным студентом". Мне хватает одного университета.
 
Open Lord of the Rings, What do you see? Orcs, wizards, elves and hobbits existing. Do you doubt the existence of Middle Earth?
Нет, не сомневаюсь. Поскольку Вселенная вечна и бесконечна, в ней с неизбежностью должно возникнуть бесконечное количество вариантов существования. И Средиземье с хоббитами, орками, гномами, и эльфами в том числе.
 
Dave, why do you separate yourself from God? God is in everything, including you.
If God is in everything, then God is in nothing so that everything and nothing can be considered simply for what it is.
Even in the Psalms it says, "Ye are Gods, and sons of the Most High." Faith gives you the right to consider yourself more than just "dung for future generations." So why belittle yourself?
And there it is, the righteous, selfish indignation that the believer is better than everyone else, we are but dung to them, belittling ourselves beneath their jack boots.
 
If God is in everything, then God is in nothing so that everything and nothing can be considered simply for what it is.

And there it is, the righteous, selfish indignation that the believer is better than everyone else, we are but dung to them, belittling ourselves beneath their jack boots.
Так это же не верующие, а вы сами считаете себя "навозом для будущих поколений". Ну а кто вы без души? Просто перегной в недалёком будущем.
 
No, that's what selfish, righteous religious assholes believe me to be.

Souls have never been shown to exist. Where is your evidence for the existence of souls?

Yes, you can dip your souvlaki into me.
Что такое "сувлаки"?
 
You can feel good or feel bad. You can do something towards a healthy outcome or an unhealthy outcome. You can act in accord with your best self or against your best self. You can act in a way which harms others or a way which does not harm others. You can be a little bit bad or a lot good.
 
No, I have no doubt. Since the Universe is eternal and infinite, an infinite number of variants of existence must inevitably arise in it. And Middle-earth with hobbits, orcs, dwarves, and elves, among others.
Of course,, there is no evidence for these things, only that which was conjured from ones imagination. The same goes for your God, no evidence, just a remote possibility of its existence somewhere in the universe. All of it are just words from books, myths and superstitions.
 
Of course,, there is no evidence for these things, only that which was conjured from ones imagination. The same goes for your God, no evidence, just a remote possibility of its existence somewhere in the universe. All of it are just words from books, myths and superstitions.
Если есть любая возможность существования, то как вы можете утверждать об отсутствии? Это нечестно. Ну, дьявол так и переводится - "лжец", "клеветник". Вам нравится быть его последователем?
 
Along with hypocrisy, projection is one of the tools believers use often due to not having any thoughts of their own.
Поведайте миру о ваших собственных мыслях, которых нет у верующих. А вдруг, из-за вашего молчания мир теряет что то выдающееся важное?
 
If there is any possibility of existence, how can you claim non-existence? It's not fair.
Anything conjured from your imagination has the possibility of existence, however miniscule, but also has very low probability, so if there is no evidence whatsoever, then it's not worth considering until some appears. That's why your God is not worth considering.
Well, the devil is translated as "liar", "slanderer". Do you like being his follower?
The mind of a ten year old.
 
@olga You started the thread by asking what good and evil is and now you are telling us. Yes?
On top of that you are referring to us non believers as "future manure."
Is this how believers behave with others?
Jesus said, "treat people they way you want to be treated."

I prefer that Jesus to Devils, hell and manure.

By the way, THE Sat-an also meant accuser or adversary. It was not an evil monster that lived in a lake of fire. Not until Daniel at least.
He was good mates with Yhwh, they played a funny game with Job with hilarious results.
 
@olga You started the thread by asking what good and evil is and now you are telling us. Yes?
On top of that you are referring to us non believers as "future manure."
Is this how believers behave with others?
Jesus said, "treat people they way you want to be treated."

I prefer that Jesus to Devils, hell and manure.

By the way, THE Sat-an also meant accuser or adversary. It was not an evil monster that lived in a lake of fire. Not until Daniel at least.
He was good mates with Yhwh, they played a funny game with Job with hilarious results.
Пин, я просто хочу быть объективной. Почему все атеисты такие обидчивые? Говорить правду, это означает проявлять добро, даже если эта правда вам не сильно нравится. Представьте, что ваш доктор будет вам говорить: "у тебя всё отлично, Пин! Пей, гуляй и веселись." Зная при этом, что вам необходимо лечение и изменение образа жизни. А другой доктор скажет: "ты пропадаешь, парень. Тебе нужно лечение". Какого доктора вы выберете?

Ваш дед, которого вы любили, тоже был атеистом? Кто послужил вам примером?
 
Anything conjured from your imagination has the possibility of existence, however miniscule, but also has very low probability, so if there is no evidence whatsoever, then it's not worth considering until some appears. That's why your God is not worth considering.

The mind of a ten year old.
Как вы проверили эту вероятность? У молекулы ДНК вообще почти не было шанса появиться, но она появилась.

Вы похожи на червяка, который всю свою жизнь прожил в яблоке, и говорит: "какие бабочки?! Какое солнце?! Кому вы тут рассказываете эти сказки?"
 
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