Good and Evil.

[DaveC426913]

Why doesn't it rise? If you think slower, your chances of survival decrease. It's self-destruction. Besides, you get used to deceiving not only others, but yourself as well.

Because not everything that's not good is evil.

 

[DaveC426913]

Except for plants, everything on Earth kills each other. Living things kill living things. Humans also kill to survive. Even vegans kill plants. And only plants themselves feed on non-living elements.

Exactly. Which puts the lie to this statement:

For a living thing, evil is something that destroys it. Something that prevents it from surviving.

 

[ольга]

Because not everything that's not good is evil.

Если не добро, и не зло - тогда что?

 

[ольга]

Exactly. Which puts the lie to this statement:

Как это опровергает? То, что вас разрушает - для вас зло. А то, что помогает вам выжить - для вас добро. Но это только для вас. Для антилопы, которую вы съели, это зло.

 

[DaveC426913]

If not good and not evil - then what?

In most of things of the world the concept simply doesn't apply. Good and evil are human inventions, applied to human actions and intents.

For the things it does apply to, there's the whole middle of the bell curve. It's not a binary choice. There's plenty of middle ground.

 

[DaveC426913]

How does this refute it? What destroys you is evil for you. And what helps you survive is good for you. But that's only for you.

If we are simply talking about personal ideas of whatever we like and don't like then it's kind of a meaningless discussion.

I assumed were talking about some consensus of a definition.

For the antelope you ate, it's evil.

No. Again: good and evil are human inventions. Antelope do not know about good or evil.

 

[ольга]

The middle of the bell curve. It's not a binary choice. There's plenty of middle ground.

Примеры из реальной жизни есть?

 

[ольга]

If we are simply talking about personal ideas of whatever we like and don't like then it's kind of a meaningless discussion.

I assumed were talking about some consensus of a definition.



No. Again: good and evil are human inventions. Antelope do not know about good or evil.

Вместо антилопы можно взять двух людей из разных племён, воюющих между собой за ресурсы. Или даже два человеческих общества.

 

[DaveC426913]

Are there any real life examples?

I threw my recycling in the trash rather than the blue bin. Bad, not evil.

I didn't invite Ted to the Euchre game. Bad, not evil.

 

[ольга]

I threw my recycling in the trash rather than the blue bin. Bad, not evil.

I didn't invite Ted to the Euchre game. Bad, not evil.

Ну, если поразмыслить, то тут можно найти зло. Ваш мусор кому то придётся отсортировывать. Он потратит на это свою энергию. Это своего рода воровство у него энергии. Небольшое, но всё же зло.
Насчёт игры - я не знаю, что это за игра, у нас таких нет. Но возможно, что Тед обидится на вас за это, и это немного подорвёт его нервную систему. Незначительно, но тоже зло.

 

[DaveC426913]

We have very different ideas of evil.

From my point of view, your idea of evil is indiscriminate: anything bad.

Or, put another way, to you, they are synonymous. Why have two words for the same thing?

And this is not where we started. You started the thread asking where the concepts of good an evil came from. But if they are as simple as 'I took the leg with more meat on it and gave you the leg that had more bone', then they have been around forever.

 

[ольга]

We have very different ideas of evil.

From my point of view, your idea of evil is indiscriminate: anything bad.

Or, put another way, to you, they are synonymous. Why have two words for the same thing?

And this is not where we started. You started the thread asking where the concepts of good an evil came from. But if they are as simple as 'I took the leg with more meat on it and gave you the leg that had more bone', then they have been around forever.

Ну, тут не всё так просто. Вообще то, это не я сказала, что "мир во зле лежит". Это из Библии.

Я вам сейчас расскажу жуткую историю, которую мне рассказала моя бабушка. Когда она была маленькая, большевики устроили в южных регионах страны голодомор(это искусственно созданный голод). Тогда люди массово умирали от голода целыми семьями. У моей бабушки тоже умерли младшие брат и сестра, старшие члены семьи. Она сама едва выжила. На одной улице с ними жила женщина, у которой тоже было несколько детей. И чтобы спасти остальных своих детей от голодной смерти, она скормила им их 8 летнего брата. Засолила в бочке и кормила. Дикость, или трезвый расчёт? Добро, или зло?

 

[Pinball1970]

Откуда вы знаете, что он поёт именно своей подруге?

Just one reason, finding and attracting mates.

 

[ольга]

Just one reason, finding and attracting mates.

Так это не только киты, но и коты тоже таким образом кошек привлекают. А вы на гитаре играете тоже для этого?

 

[Pinball1970]

Так это не только киты, но и коты тоже таким образом кошек привлекают. А вы на гитаре играете тоже для этого?

That was my point to begin with, humans are just a particular type of animal, mammal, ape. Nothing mysterious about evolved behaviours.
Certainly no good or evil

A link on Wale whale song.

Redirect Notice

 

[DaveC426913]

And do you play the guitar for this reason too?

There's only one pic on pinball's photo album:

 

[Pinball1970]

Так это не только киты, но и коты тоже таким образом кошек привлекают. А вы на гитаре играете тоже для этого?

I Iost my singing voice unfortunately. I sang like an angel till I was 11, head of my school choir then my voice broke.
I did not sing again till I was pushed into a choir by my friend so I learned to sing again but technique was not and still is not good.
Now my range is about a fifth! Rubbish. No high register.

Back on Whales, those cetaceans are born singers! The males sing together apparently and the female picks her favourite!

 

[ольга]

I Iost my singing voice unfortunately. I sang like an angel till I was 11, head of my school choir then my voice broke.
I did not sing again till I was pushed into a choir by my friend so I learned to sing again but technique was not and still is not good.
Now my range is about a fifth! Rubbish. No high register.

Back on Whales, those cetaceans are born singers! The males sing together apparently and the female picks her favourite!

Пусть самка заведёт себе гарем. Это избавит её от проблемы выбора.

 

[Pinball1970]

Пусть самка заведёт себе гарем. Это избавит её от проблемы выбора.

So one mate gets all the girls? That's hardly fair. Plus the lady may want variety.

 

[ольга]

So one mate gets all the girls? That's hardly fair. Plus the lady may want variety.

Нет, наоборот - самка(девушка) получает всех парней.