8 Million Americans have Near Death Experiences according to Gallup Poll

[Mazulu]

False conclusion that you made up yourself.

It's a commonly accepted and perfectly logical conclusion.

Not only that, there is no evidence people float above their own bodies. You can stop lying anytime.

You do when you die.

 

[Mazulu]

I'm borrowing from semiconductor physics here. When an electron is removed from the semiconductor, it leaves behind a hole. The hole is positively charged and the electron is negatively charged. There is an electrical attraction between them. I suspect that something similar happens to create consciousness. When we die, we feel the attraction to God as love. And then we merge back into God. That seems to be what all these NDE's are describing.

 

[dumbest man on earth]

If you can clean up your posts of unnecessary insults/personal attacks and engage in sincere dialogue, I will read your posts.

Mazulu, of course you are nothing but correct...because you say so.

Mazulu, of course I have no idea how to "engage in sincere dialogue"...again...because you say so.

Mazulu. of course you should, and I, dmoe, HONESTLY REQUEST that you do, contact the Moderators/Administrators of SciForums and point out my alleged "posts of unnecessary insults/personal attacks" and failure to "engage in sincere dialogue". I am fairly certain that they would see it your way, in less than a millisecond...and ban me for those infractions of the rules, because you say so.

Mazulu, I would have no qualms what-so-ever about being banned or even permanently banned from Posting on SciForums, iif I were to be conclusively proven guilty of your accusations.

Mazulu, would you please, by my own HONEST REQUEST, do just that? Please, either Prove your allegations...or...actually begin to "engage in sincere dialogue" (as you put it !).

Mazulu, one possible thing that would prevent you from doing just that, might be a self manufactured fear of all things pertaining to reality. But, hey Mazulu, anyone who has read even a few of your Posts, know that that is impossible, again...because you say so.

Mazulu, of course you will do what I have HONESTLY REQUESTED, because real men stand behind their words and have no problem proving their accusations. Especially men who only "engage in sincere dialogue" and would never "bear false witness" or allow themselves to become victims of their own self manufactured delusions and fears.

Mazulu, since you will surely, as any real honorable man would, honor my HONEST REQUEST to contact the Mods/Admins with your complaints as to my suitability to continue Posting on SciForums...I will now say Goodbye and I am sorry that I will no longer to be able to enjoy your Posts that contain absolutely no "unnecessary insults/personal attacks" and are always only chock full of "sincere dialogue".

I only hope that I can somehow learn a valuable lesson from your perfect example of how real honorable men conduct themselves in on-line Forums.

Just think of it Mazulu, very soon you will not have to ignore dmoe's Posts filled with nothing but "insults/personal attacks".

 

[Mazulu]

Mazulu, of course you are nothing but correct...because you say so.

Mazulu, of course I have no idea how to "engage in sincere dialogue"...again...because you say so.

Mazulu. of course you should, and I, dmoe, HONESTLY REQUEST that you do, contact the Moderators/Administrators of SciForums and point out my alleged "posts of unnecessary insults/personal attacks" and failure to "engage in sincere dialogue". I am fairly certain that they would see it your way, in less than a millisecond...and ban me for those infractions of the rules, because you say so.

Mazulu, I would have no qualms what-so-ever about being banned or even permanently banned from Posting on SciForums, iif I were to be conclusively proven guilty of your accusations.

Mazulu, would you please, by my own HONEST REQUEST, do just that? Please, either Prove your allegations...or...actually begin to "engage in sincere dialogue" (as you put it !).

Mazulu, one possible thing that would prevent you from doing just that, might be a self manufactured fear of all things pertaining to reality. But, hey Mazulu, anyone who has read even a few of your Posts, know that that is impossible, again...because you say so.

Mazulu, of course you will do what I have HONESTLY REQUESTED, because real men stand behind their words and have no problem proving their accusations. Especially men who only "engage in sincere dialogue" and would never "bear false witness" or allow themselves to become victims of their own self manufactured delusions and fears.

Mazulu, since you will surely, as any real honorable man would, honor my HONEST REQUEST to contact the Mods/Admins with your complaints as to my suitability to continue Posting on SciForums...I will now say Goodbye and I am sorry that I will no longer to be able to enjoy your Posts that contain absolutely no "unnecessary insults/personal attacks" and are always only chock full of "sincere dialogue".

I only hope that I can somehow learn a valuable lesson from your perfect example of how real honorable men conduct themselves in on-line Forums.

Just think of it Mazulu, very soon you will not have to ignore dmoe's Posts filled with nothing but "insults/personal attacks".

What does any of this have to do with the topic?

 

[Mazulu]

According to near death experience reports, you don't have to be a Christian to go to heaven. But here is a video of three atheists who, when faced with going to hell, turned to Christianity.

[video=youtube;FeuguDgC6tQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeuguDgC6tQ[/video]

 

[dumbest man on earth]

Can science build a machine that can feel emotionally hurt by all of the insults and ad hominem attacks? The answer is no. You cannot get emotional feelings out of a transistor. If you have to use an organic molecule to create "feelings" then the spirit/soul is most likely coming in through the quantum vacuum.

Prove to me that you can make a machine that has a consciousness that can be made to suffer. If you cannot, then I have to assume that 8 million reports of near death experiences are most likely correct.

The fact that 99% of your comments are insults and 1% are flawed assumptions, the fact that you have to throw out 8 million data points to defend your position probably means your position is wrong. We do have a soul that leaves the body when we die.

The funny thing is, some of you are scared that you are going to suffer in hell for all eternity, long after you are physically dead. Man made machines don't suffer. The ability to experience suffering requires a soul.

How certain can you be there is no soul? The answer is, not very certain at all. Let me explain why. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle applies to all quantum systems. Each molecule of the brain is a quantum system and therefore has a certain amount of uncertainty about it. How ever much uncertainty scientists have about each atom in the brain, there are 457 trillion atoms in the brain. So how much uncertainty is that?

There are 457 trillion places for a soul to exist. How can anyone be sure it's not there?

http://education.jlab.org/qa/mathatom_03.html

Actually, the amount of uncertainty is a trillion times that.

8 million Americans have witnessed their souls leave their body. So who am I gonna believe? You? Or 8 million Americans?

dmoe,
Did you write anything worth reading?

God gives us the ability to love. It is the world that turns love into suffering.

How does love turn to suffering?

By taking it away. By killing it. By denying it.

If you can clean up your posts of unnecessary insults/personal attacks and engage in sincere dialogue, I will read your posts.

A near death experience is witnessing your soul leave the body.

You are out of touch with reality. You are blinded by your anti-religion bigotry.

I can't believe you are accusing me of delusion when I am quoting numbers to you from wikipedia.
But I am not lying. It is an objective fact that Gallup poll counted 8 million Americans who have had near death experiences. It is reasonable to assume there are hundreds of millions, even billions of people who have had near death experiences.

You are denying facts. That is delusional.

I'm watching this one NDE video where this foreigner is describing how he was hovering over his own body. He could see his own cyanosis.

When you're floating above your own body, watching people trying to resuscitate it, that means your soul is leaving your body.

It's a commonly accepted and perfectly logical conclusion.
You do when you die.

I'm borrowing from semiconductor physics here. When an electron is removed from the semiconductor, it leaves behind a hole. The hole is positively charged and the electron is negatively charged. There is an electrical attraction between them. I suspect that something similar happens to create consciousness. When we die, we feel the attraction to God as love. And then we merge back into God. That seems to be what all these NDE's are describing.

According to near death experience reports, you don't have to be a Christian to go to heaven. But here is a video of three atheists who, when faced with going to hell, turned to Christianity.

[video=youtube;FeuguDgC6tQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeuguDgC6tQ[/video]

What does any of this have to do with the topic?

Mazulu, all of the above are just a few of the perfect examples that you, Mazulu, have Posted to PROVE the Topic of this Thread : "Discussing religion is literally a waste of time and energy"

Mazulu, I am fairly sure that you will Post even more Proof.

P.S. Have you contacted any Mods/Admins yet in reference to getting me Banned - as an honorable man Mazulu, you have a duty to back up your allegations.

 

[Mazulu]

Mazulu, all of the above are just a few of the perfect examples that you, Mazulu, have Posted to PROVE the Topic of this Thread : "Discussing religion is literally a waste of time and energy"

Fine, I'll move to a more appropriate topic thread.

 

[Mazulu]

Popular interest in near-death experiences was initially sparked by Weiss's 1972 The Vestibule,[citation needed] followed by Raymond Moody's 1975 book Life After Life[10][11] and the founding of the International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS) in 1981.[12] According to a Gallup poll, approximately eight million Americans claim to have had a near-death experience.[13] Some commentators, such as Simpson,[14] claim that the number of near-death experiencers may be underestimated. People who have had a near-death experience may not be comfortable discussing the experience with others, potentially due in part to some seeing an NDE as a paranormal experience.[12] NDEs are among the phenomena studied in the fields of psychology,[15] psychiatry,[16] and hospital medicine.[17][18]

I really liked this video because the woman whose soul detached from her body, she rose up to the top of a hospital building where she saw a sneaker. When she came back to her body and told the nurses, they went up to the roof and found the sneaker.

[video=youtube;FeSx7k3tlYY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeSx7k3tlYY[/video]

Message of near death experiences: "We will die as we lived", 7:00 min

 

[Monimonika]

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html

The above link goes to a debunking site of various sensational NDE claims.

Click on the link "Maria's Shoe" for the one Mazulu is referring to.

Here's an excerpt:

But what of the most persuasive aspect of her report—her description of the celebrated shoe? How difficult would it have been for her to learn these details without having left her body? Ebbern and Mulligan set out to determine exactly that:

As part of our investigation, Ebbern and Mulligan visited Harborview Medical Center to determine for themselves just how difficult it would be to see, from outside the hospital, a shoe on one of its third-floor window ledges. They placed a running shoe of their own at the place Clark described and then went outside to observe what was visible from ground level. They were astonished at the ease with which they could see and identify the shoe.

Clark's claim that the shoe would have been invisible from ground level outside the hospital is all the more incredible because the investigators' viewpoint was considerably inferior to what Clark's would have been seventeen years earlier. That is because, in 1994, there was new construction under way beneath the window in question and this forced Ebbern and Mulligan to view the shoe from a much greater distance than would have been necessary for Clark (32).

As the authors note, what was a construction area for them in 1994 was a high-traffic parking lot and recreation area back in 1977, providing an even better view of Maria's shoe than the one they saw so easily. Their 1994 'test shoe' was so conspicuous, in fact, that by the time they returned to the hospital one week later, "someone not specifically looking for it" had noticed it and removed it (32). It is quite likely, then, "that anyone who might have noticed the shoe back in 1977 would have commented on it because of the novelty of its location" and Maria could have heard such a conversation and consciously forgotten about it, incorporating it into her out-of-body imagery (32). Moreover, even if no one had seen it from the ground level, Ebbern and Mulligan tested Clark's claim that Maria's shoe was impossible to see from inside the room unless she pressed her face hard against the glass looking for it. This claim was found to be wanting:

They easily placed their running shoe on the ledge from inside one of the rooms and it was clearly visible from various points within the room. There was no need whatsoever for anyone to press his or her face against the glass to see the shoe. In fact, one needed only to take a few steps into the room to be able to see it clearly. To make matters worse for Clark's account, a patient would not even need to strain to see it from his or her bed in the room. So it is apparent that many people inside as well as outside the hospital would have had the opportunity to notice the now-famous shoe, making it even more likely that Maria could have overheard some mention of it (32).

The authors add that anyone who did press his or her face against the glass to get a closer look at the conspicuous shoe from inside the room could easily see the worn-out little toe and tucked shoelace: "we had no difficulty seeing the shoe's allegedly hidden outer side" (32).

Human memory of past events is frequently strange and faulty without an impartial recording of some sort made at the time.

 

[Mazulu]

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html

The above link goes to a debunking site of various sensational NDE claims.

Click on the link "Maria's Shoe" for the one Mazulu is referring to.

Here's an excerpt:



Human memory of past events is frequently strange and faulty without an impartial recording of some sort made at the time.

Look, it's your life. If you want to live a meaningless purposeless life, then do so.

 

[Monimonika]

Look, it's your life. If you want to live a meaningless purposeless life, then do so.

Look, if imagining me to be unhappy with my life is what brightens your day (what a goodhearted person you are! /sarcasm), go right ahead.

 

[Mazulu]

Look, if imagining me to be unhappy with my life is what brightens your day (what a goodhearted person you are! /sarcasm), go right ahead.

You seem like a sweet person, so I'll rephrase. Atheism doesn't work for me. In either case, whether there is not or there is an afterlife, in either case, I want to be happy. If that means that I don't give a crap about a pile of dusty useless skepticism, then I'm OK with that. I think that the Holy Bible and other religious material is far more beautiful then a bunch of atheist dogma. I am pretty sure that atheists eat a bullet when life starts getting hard. I have no use for such a dead end philosophy.

I'll take my perma-ban now from the Atheist Queen Bells.

 

[Monimonika]

You seem like a sweet person, so I'll rephrase. Atheism doesn't work for me. In either case, whether there is not or there is an afterlife, in either case, I want to be happy. If that means that I don't give a crap about a pile of dusty useless skepticism, then I'm OK with that. I think that the Holy Bible and other religious material is far more beautiful then a bunch of atheist dogma. I am pretty sure that atheists eat a bullet when life starts getting hard. I have no use for such a dead end philosophy.

I'll take my perma-ban now from the Atheist Queen Bells.

Okay, I'm fine with your stated reasons. Seriously, I am not being sarcastic about being fine with what you just said above. Your beliefs make you feel happier and life look more beautiful, and that's great.

However, it won't stop me from posting things that conflict with your worldview. If you don't want to read that kind of stuff, feel free to put me on your ignore list and don't reply to me (I'd appreciate it if you'd inform me that you're ignoring me so I can understand any of your subsequent posts in this thread better). If this thread continues, you might still see me quoted by others, but just skim over my words and don't address them if you want. This way you can enjoy being more positive in your interaction with others instead of feeling negatively obligated to berate me in your replies.

 

[Buddha12]

i really liked this video because the woman whose soul detached from her body, she rose up to the top of a hospital building where she saw a sneaker. When she came back to her body and told the nurses, they went up to the roof and found the sneaker.

the woo is strong with this one!

 

[Mazulu]

Okay, I'm fine with your stated reasons. Seriously, I am not being sarcastic about being fine with what you just said above. Your beliefs make you feel happier and life look more beautiful, and that's great.

However, it won't stop me from posting things that conflict with your worldview. If you don't want to read that kind of stuff, feel free to put me on your ignore list and don't reply to me (I'd appreciate it if you'd inform me that you're ignoring me so I can understand any of your subsequent posts in this thread better). If this thread continues, you might still see me quoted by others, but just skim over my words and don't address them if you want. This way you can enjoy being more positive in your interaction with others instead of feeling negatively obligated to berate me in your replies.

You remind me of me. I'll pay attention to you. Your polite and kind, even if you have an opposing POV.

 

[Mazulu]

the woo is strong with this one!

WOO is AWESOME!!!

 

[kx000]

False conclusion that you made up yourself. Not only that, there is no evidence people float above their own bodies. You can stop lying anytime.

My mother claims that she floated above the surgery room as a child when they worked on her back. She said she wittnessed he own uncociouss body lying on the table.

 

[Balerion]

You seem like a sweet person, so I'll rephrase. Atheism doesn't work for me. In either case, whether there is not or there is an afterlife, in either case, I want to be happy. If that means that I don't give a crap about a pile of dusty useless skepticism, then I'm OK with that. I think that the Holy Bible and other religious material is far more beautiful then a bunch of atheist dogma. I am pretty sure that atheists eat a bullet when life starts getting hard. I have no use for such a dead end philosophy.

I'll take my perma-ban now from the Atheist Queen Bells.

Got any statistics to back up the claim of high atheist suicide rates, or are you just trolling again?

 

[billvon]

I really liked this video . . . .

One of the top signs that a post in a science forum is on a crank topic . . . .

. . . the 'proof' is a Youtube video.

 

[Mazulu]

Got any statistics to back up the claim of high atheist suicide rates, or are you just trolling again?

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder.

There ya go.