The real issue is whether or not you and I have a soul (something that survives death). Apparently, even evolutionary biology thought it was so important to at least create the illusion of an afterlife, that near death experiences are triggered when the heart stops (in some people anyway). What is odd about near death experiences, is that when the heart stops, the brain stops working. If the brain stops working, then consciousness stops working. Right? So why do people experience hovering over their body, have their life reviewed, meet dead relatives, meet angels/God/Jesus/beings of light? How is all this possible when the brain isn't working? It's like unplugging your computer, but it still works.
8 Million Americans have Near Death Experiences according to Gallup Poll
- Thread starter Mazulu
- Start date
The real issue is whether or not you and I have a soul (something that survives death). Apparently, even evolutionary biology thought it was so important to at least create the illusion of an afterlife, that near death experiences are triggered when the heart stops (in some people anyway). What is odd about near death experiences, is that when the heart stops, the brain stops working. If the brain stops working, then consciousness stops working. Right? So why do people experience hovering over their body, have their life reviewed, meet dead relatives, meet angels/God/Jesus/beings of light? How is all this possible when the brain isn't working? It's like unplugging your computer, but it still works.
Yazata,
Do you think that life after death and having a soul are a prerequisite for a discussion about religion? I mean, I thought the whole reason why religion was important was because we have a soul. Having a soul means that we might still be subject to another set of rules even after our physical body dies. I'm not preaching hell or Christianity. If I am preaching anything, I am preaching that angels of light come for us when we die and we go to heaven (a place of love). At least that's what all the NDE experiencers are telling us.
Do you think that life after death and having a soul are a prerequisite for a discussion about religion? I mean, I thought the whole reason why religion was important was because we have a soul. Having a soul means that we might still be subject to another set of rules even after our physical body dies. I'm not preaching hell or Christianity. If I am preaching anything, I am preaching that angels of light come for us when we die and we go to heaven (a place of love). At least that's what all the NDE experiencers are telling us.
I think we're all human, we all have human flaws. Maybe we should show each other more love and compassion.
I would argue that discussing religion is really a useful way to explore and understand the laws of physics more deeply. If you're looking for an afterlife, then you have to scour the physics very closely and look at things like quantum entanglement and the extreme energies of the big bang.
References please.
I am finding articles that say that when the heart stops, there is a surge of electrical activity. So your point that this is all there is, that the afterlife is just a surge of electrical activity in the brain might be substantiated.
But why do we have afterlife experiences? Why do atheists have afterlife experiences?
[video=youtube;gF_Dj6EduLY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF_Dj6EduLY[/video]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...rain-activity-trigger-paranormal-visions.html
Do mice have near death experience? Do mice have souls too?
Do mice have near death experience? Do mice have souls too?
They don't. People have NEAR death experiences. Claiming that gives a glimpse of an afterlife is the same as wading in the ocean and then claiming you swam to the other shore.
Number 9 Bus Shelter
Registered Member
There is a thing called hallucinations. When someone is almost dying there are definately not well. So do you expect their brains to work properly?
And why do they "see" God/Jesus/etc.? Because they believe they will. Near death experiences are kinda like a dream, in some way.
Edit: oh, btw, their brains didn't stop working. If they did, the person would be dead.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
When people have near death experiences they aren't dead. If they were we wouldn't be hearing about it and they wouldn't be having any experience. Depriving the brain of oxygen and having a hallucination doesn't prove anything.
People only "see" what they already believe in. No Christians see Allah in their near death experiences.
People also have "out of body" experiences but they aren't real either. They are just based on what the person already knew.
The skeptic, James Randy, thought he had an out of body experience. He was on the ceiling of his bedroom looking down on himself and his bed. He described what was in his bedroom and the pattern on the sheets on the bed. Even being a skeptic it still seemed real to him until his housemate pointed out that the sheets he was describing (which were like some he owned) weren't on the bed that day.
It's all in the mind and isn't reality.
People only "see" what they already believe in. No Christians see Allah in their near death experiences.
People also have "out of body" experiences but they aren't real either. They are just based on what the person already knew.
The skeptic, James Randy, thought he had an out of body experience. He was on the ceiling of his bedroom looking down on himself and his bed. He described what was in his bedroom and the pattern on the sheets on the bed. Even being a skeptic it still seemed real to him until his housemate pointed out that the sheets he was describing (which were like some he owned) weren't on the bed that day.
It's all in the mind and isn't reality.
Number 9 Bus Shelter
Registered Member
Religious people love to mention a few cases and use them as a basis to a belief. "Even the atheist Carl Jung" had a NDE. Yes, so what? That happened in 1944. Lots of people are almost dying all over the world, and not everyone sees that stuff. I'm pretty sure that is a product of the human mind. Just do drugs that you can get almost the same effect. People who smoke pot get high. The word high wasn't chosen randomly. They, in fact, see themselves from above sometimes. That is just an example
My point is that he shouldn't even bother publishing a book on atheism. Religion isn't worth his time
My point is that he shouldn't even bother publishing a book on atheism. Religion isn't worth his time
Mazulu,
Evolutionary biology has nothing to do with near-death experiences.
Not immediately. It does get deprived of oxygen quite rapidly, though.
Yes. Dead people aren't usually conscious, in my experience.
Those people have working brains that are short of oxygen. They can still imagine things.
Please provide a link or two. Are these scientific articles, or New Age sites?
There's probably no afterlife.
A near-death experience is not the same as an afterlife experience. It's near death, not death.
Who said that?
Are you saying that the only reason you don't do those things is because you fear punishment in some kind of afterlife?
How can I contact these angels of yours?
Evolutionary biology has nothing to do with near-death experiences.
Not immediately. It does get deprived of oxygen quite rapidly, though.
Yes. Dead people aren't usually conscious, in my experience.
Those people have working brains that are short of oxygen. They can still imagine things.
Please provide a link or two. Are these scientific articles, or New Age sites?
There's probably no afterlife.
A near-death experience is not the same as an afterlife experience. It's near death, not death.
Who said that?
Are you saying that the only reason you don't do those things is because you fear punishment in some kind of afterlife?
How can I contact these angels of yours?
Bells
Staff member
It's actually your brain and the chemicals in your dying brain reacting to the lack of oxygen. They have even been able to recreate those brain spasms in rats.
Most people who have near death experiences don't experience God, heaven, bliss, or float above their bodies in there everyday casual lives. But when there is a catastrophic failure in the body, people experience events that suggest that the soul is being freed from the body. When there is a catastrophic failure in the body, I would expect the circuits of the brain to go haywire, not to play back some carefully scripted presentation of an afterlife. In other words, I don't buy the argument that a life ending injury to the body triggers some religious/spiritual message, that is silly. When a hard drive crashes, you get a bluescreen of death, and then the computer stops working. You don't get a video of the hard floating up to heaven and technicians in radiant light saying, "Oh, we love you hard drives, now come back to the manufacture". How can you expect the computer to play a video when the hard drive crashes? You can't. In the same way, how can you expect the brain to play a video for the observer (which ever part of the brain that is?), when the body is dying? If a soul is connected to the body, and the body is dying, you would expect the soul to disconnect.
In other words, if there was a catastrophic failure in the body and the brain what shutting down, I would expect randomness of thought, mental chaos, feelings of heat/cold/bizarre halucinations of meaningless gibberish; not some scripted preview to an afterlife.
I really crave an honest and open conversation. I am very weary of ridicule from people who are not sincere about the discussion. I don't know why you can't communicate with angels; I can only speculate that when they try, you get uncomfortable, you feel invaded by strange thoughts, and you block the communication.
I work with computers and electronics. When they fail, there is chaos in the instrument in nothing works. So why is it that when the body is dying and the brain is starved of oxygen, people get a preview to an afterlife. Why is that? When people dream, there dreams don't make sense. But when we die, we meet our dead relatives, angels, god, hover over our body? We get this well scripted presentation to an afterlife. Why don't we get random gibberish when we die (like we do when we dream)?
Mazulu, what is it that you "crave" in an "honest and open conversation"? Why do you "crave" what you have stated?
Please reference JUST ONE thread on these Forums where and when you, Mazulu, participated in "an honest and open conversation" for the entirety of the Thread.
Mazulu, are you stating that you are weary of yourself?
Mazulu, is the ^^above^^ what you consider as an "honest and open" part of an "honest and open conversation"? In a true "honest and open conversation" on conversing with angels, wouldn't you at least admit that conversing with entities that have never been proven to exist in reality - could only be an exercise in imagination?
Mazulu, most everyone else on this Forum knows exactly "why you can't communicate with angels".
Mazulu, I work with computers and electronic instruments myself.
If "nothing works...in the instrument", it is usually the power supply that has failed or the main power (on/off) switch.
Mazulu, have you honestly ever seen an oscilloscope with a completely failed power supply, or no source of power, produce a "preview to an afterlife"?
I am attempting to engage in "an honest and open conversation" with you, and you introduced the human/electronics instrument analogy, so...please explain...to use your own query..."Why is that?"
Mazulu, there are many who tell of THEIR dreams making perfect sense. I am fairly certain that there are more people that can recount those dreams that make perfect sense, than claim to have seen a "preview to an afterlife".
Mazulu, for the sake of "an honest and open conversation", I must now ask for an "honest" presentation of evidence and proof of your ^^above^^ statement.
Again, Mazulu, only for the sake of "an honest and open conversation"!
Mazulu, for the sake of "an honest and open conversation", I must now ask for an "honest" presentation of evidence and proof of your ^^above^^ statement.
Again, Mazulu, only for the sake of "an honest and open conversation"!
Mazulu, for the sake of "an honest and open conversation", I must now ask for an "honest" presentation of evidence and proof of your ^^above^^ statement.
Again, Mazulu, only for the sake of "an honest and open conversation"!
did the self same rats also have the uncanny ability to recount information from many years before they were born in foreign communities of rats?
There is no medical evidence to support the claim that a brain that is deprived of oxygen is capable of anything nearly as complicated as a well scripted preview to an afterlife.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001435.htm
Symptoms of mild cerebral hypoxia include:
Change in attention (inattentiveness)
Poor judgment
Uncoordinated movement
Symptoms of severe cerebral hypoxia include:
Complete unawareness and unresponsiveness (coma)
No breathing
No response of the pupils of the eye to light
When the brain is starved of oxygen, it cannot function correctly which results in a diminished consciousness (which should make sense).
A near death experience is defined as,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience said:
Notice that the NDE explanation has nothing to do with meeting dead relatives or a scripted presentation to an afterlife, that is, if anyone actually has a valid presentation of the afterlife. No one obviously does.