8 Million Americans have Near Death Experiences according to Gallup Poll

[Mazulu]

Hi! Just in case it's not known, what Mazulu sees if you're on Mazulu's ignore list are your posts but shrunk down and containing only the message: So Mazulu would know that there was a post from you, but would have to click "View Post" to see what you typed. I only know this because I have placed one member so far on my own ignore list.

Only one person? I have two people on my ignore list because they are low on content and high on insults. Basically they're trolling. Who needs that?

 

[Mazulu]

Ha! I wish! It's from a scan (using a cheap scanner) I did off of a color page from a manga series I was following waaaaaaay long ago (never finished reading the series).

I like the avatar. It makes me think I'm talking to a cute anime girl.

What is uninspiring about medical science trying to save lives and reduce needless suffering? Before effective anesthesia, people who could've been saved to live long, happy lives with their loved ones instead chose to die rather than go through the pain of life-saving surgery. A lot of what we have today took some painful trial and error to achieve, but the thing about the more "feel-good" type of practitioners is that they want to ignore all the "bad results" and focus on the "good results".

Advances in medical science are great.

People who strongly believe that resurrection through prayer is real (magical and inspiring!) make headlines as they allow their own children to suffer and die in front of their eyes for hours, days, weeks from ailments that cold, harsh medical science could've not only cured but prevented. And then these same people (if they haven't been jailed already) decide to ignore the one or two previous deaths of their children and do the exact same thing as before for when their next child gets sick. Because they like their beliefs and find criticism of said beliefs far more unpleasant than watching their children die.

Seek medical help when you need it. But what do you do when medical help is not enough? You turn to prayer and things that give you hope. There is benefit to being hopeful. But no, I don't think it's a good idea to withhold medical attention from a sick child (because they might die)!

Belief in the afterlife is, of course, not as harmful as the above example, but the tactics of brushing aside inconvenient facts is distressingly similar. I'm not going to say that belief in the afterlife is completely harmless, especially since:
:fright:...yeah, psychologically not pleasant. And that unpleasantness tends to come out in words that affect our moods, which in turn affect our stress levels and overall health however subtly (whether it's you yourself or the one being condemned to hell by you). You might want to follow that idea of yours about not coming to this site anymore... I'll continue to see how much more I can tolerate before bailing out (via either "ignore list" or "avoid threads").

I don't want you to put me on your ignore list. I'll be nice (or at least I'll try to be nice). But if I do flame at some atheists and tell them to go to hell, I don't mean you.

I disagree that belief in an afterlife is harmful. If anything, it gives hope. Hope is good. I also think there are messages that we get, that are presented as coming from a spirit world. People come back with messages of hope in an afterlife. But the messages are not caused by natural selection. On this issue, there is nothing honorable, nothing noble in trying to destroy hope. I want to be judged on my values. My values are that keeping hope alive is a virtue.

I sincerely thank you for the sweet comment.

I'm only human, by which I mean that I also tend to believe what I want to believe, and believing so makes me happy. It's just that what I believe (and want to believe) disagrees with your beliefs for reasons you would most likely find unpleasant (and that's fine!). I recognize that I have this tendency and fully admit it...occasionally!

It is entirely possible that science cannot penetrate the deepest mysteries of the universe. The fact that science cannot detect the soul is unfortunate. However, I have the right to my beliefs. I have the right to believe that wave-functions have something to do with the astral plane, the spirit world and the soul.

By the way, I noticed something from your earlier reply to me:
I thought I had left open the possibility of Pam's OOBE being real. Why did you immediately assume that a non-flat EEG meant Pam was witnessing her operation details from within her body? It can't be that you think NDEs are required for OOBEs to occur, right?

I've always heard that the soul is tethered to the physical body through the silver cord. http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research12.html

We can leave our body through an OOBE or astral travel, but were still tethered to our body. When we have a near death experience, were still tethered to the physical body (which is probably why the brain still has brain waves). When we die, the silver cord is severed, and we go on in the world of spirit and leave our body behind for good. I was taught this when I was young. I still believe it.

 

[Bebelina]

The same as they have used for thousands of years - telling weak minded and easily duped people WHAT THEY YEARN TO HEAR.



So..."Attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena*", is an "old concept" - but you choose to employ it in your #3 - below! * - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/anthropomorphizing



One should never "assume" anything - refer to your question/my answer #1 above. Check it out, investigate, test hypotheses, find the facts - never just "assume".

Different species of animals evolved by the same "rules", but along divergent paths, and there are indeed similarities. But, they are not the "same" as humans.
Do I think Humans are "special"? Yes, but not in a "better" way - I think most if not all other forms of life are more attuned to their actual "role" in the scheme of life/nature on this planet. They do not seem to suffer the various self-produced calamities of Humans - though they do suffer the consequences of Human produced actions.
So...yes, I do think Humans are "special" - as in a, please pardon the expression, short-bus "special" kind of way - although we think of ourselves as superior, we constantly show our inferiority, to each other and to everything else in nature.



Are NDE's not a psychological/emotional phenomenon that a Psychic would/could be consulted about.
The late Psychic Sylvia Browne, was renowned for contacting/speaking with deceased relatives/family members/loved ones was she not?



Bebelina, the term "supernatural" literally means ""of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe *",so unless we somehow are able to get "outside of" or "beyond the visible observable universe*"...

* from : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural

Bebelina, if you celebrate them, may you and yours enjoy a Happy and Healthy Holiday Season.

Yes, thank you and the same to you.


We can't do anything else but assume. There are no "facts" that are not based on a series of assumptions. We must agree, assume that certain rules apply to this universe and from there do our investigations, but that platform can't be constant in order for us to evolve, it has to be open for re-evaluation on a regular basis.

I have noticed that it's very common for americans to assume animals have no feelings or thoughts for example, but there is absolutely no proof of that and serves more as a way to avoid getting attached to the beings we torture and abuse to death for money and food.

I think psychics can be consulted about NDE aswell as any other person/profession.

We will always get outside the currently visible and discover more and more and more.

 

[Mazulu]

I think psychics can be consulted about NDE aswell as any other person/profession. We will always get outside the currently visible and discover more and more and more.

I think psychics (good psychics) can pick up on subtleties of body language. It has to do with being compassionate and caring about other people. At least that's been my experience.

 

[dumbest man on earth]

Yes, thank you and the same to you.

No thanks needed - just promise to enjoy life!

We can't do anything else but assume.

Bebelina, I am not sure who these "we" are that you speak of, but I can, and do everything else, other than "assume"!!

There are no "facts" that are not based on a series of assumptions.

Is gravity a "fact based on a series of assumptions"? What are the series of "assumptions" that led to the "assumed fact" that stepping off of a 50-story building, accelerating through free-fall, then being suddenly impeded further progress by solid concrete will cause certain bodily injuries and most likely death?

Bebelina, gravity is not an "assumed fact". It is a Proven Fact!

Whether or not the exact Nature of WHY Gravity is has been entirely figured out - it has still been proven conclusively, through study, experimentation and observation.
You and your "we" may choose to "assume" that gravity is a fact.
However, myself and possibly just a few (maybe 6 or 7 billion) other people KNOW it to be a concretely evidenced and accepted, Proven Fact. - Pun intended -

We must agree, assume that certain rules apply to this universe and from there do our investigations, but that platform can't be constant in order for us to evolve, it has to be open for re-evaluation on a regular basis.

Sorry, Bebelina, but I, dmoe, must humbly disagree.

Bebelina, The Fundamental Laws of Observable Reality that Science is based on are not evolving or changing. That is why they are Fundamental Laws.
Life on this planet has kept on evolving for billions of years with gravity obeying the same exact Fundamental Laws of today. Though we may know MORE about it tomorrow or in another billion years - The Fundamental Laws will remain The Fundamental Laws.
As for being "open for re-evaluation on a regular basis", gravity is Tested and Confirmed (re-evaluated) on an almost daily basis - and to this very day, has yet to ever be PROVEN NON-EXISTENT.

I have noticed that it's very common for americans to assume animals have no feelings or thoughts for example, but there is absolutely no proof of that and serves more as a way to avoid getting attached to the beings we torture and abuse to death for money and food.

So...Bebelina, you also "assume" that actions/events that you notice, can only occur because of what you also "assume" are the only Beliefs/Feelings/Motivations that could serve the person performing the actions/events you witness!

Bebelina, I have been aware of all life on this planet from my very first exposure to cognitive awareness nearly 6 decades ago.

What part of :

Different species of animals evolved by the same "rules", but along divergent paths, and there are indeed similarities. But, they are not the "same" as humans.
Do I think Humans are "special"? Yes, but not in a "better" way - I think most if not all other forms of life are more attuned to their actual "role" in the scheme of life/nature on this planet. They do not seem to suffer the various self-produced calamities of Humans - though they do suffer the consequences of Human produced actions.
So...yes, I do think Humans are "special" - as in a, please pardon the expression, short-bus "special" kind of way - although we think of ourselves as superior, we constantly show our inferiority, to each other and to everything else in nature.

...led you to "assume" that I, dmoe, "...avoid getting attached to the beings we..." share this awesome world of nature alongside of, just so I can "... torture and abuse (them) to death for money and food."?

I think psychics can be consulted about NDE aswell as any other person/profession.

Which is the reason I mentioned that fact in the first place.

We will always get outside the currently visible and discover more and more and more.

Again, Bebelina, I am not sure who these "we", nor am I sure I Grok'd, completely, your ^^above^^ statement!

However, I do firmly believe that we should be constantly striving to expand our intelligence and understanding of all of nature.

That expansion, can only be accomplished by diligent study, experimentation and observation. Assumptions, Fantasies/Wishes to be True, Crackpot Measures and Delusions will only serve to impede that expansion!

Later, and again, Happy Holidays Bebelina.

 

[rr6]

Ego Deaths Yet To Come > > > I admit My My Ego Block to Truth

Ok, 8 million. Now we need closer to 100%of American adults to have ego deaths.

I acknowledge my ego block to truth.

r6

 

[Bebelina]

No thanks needed - just promise to enjoy life!




Bebelina, I am not sure who these "we" are that you speak of, but I can, and do everything else, other than "assume"!!



Is gravity a "fact based on a series of assumptions"? What are the series of "assumptions" that led to the "assumed fact" that stepping off of a 50-story building, accelerating through free-fall, then being suddenly impeded further progress by solid concrete will cause certain bodily injuries and most likely death?

Bebelina, gravity is not an "assumed fact". It is a Proven Fact!

Whether or not the exact Nature of WHY Gravity is has been entirely figured out - it has still been proven conclusively, through study, experimentation and observation.
You and your "we" may choose to "assume" that gravity is a fact.
However, myself and possibly just a few (maybe 6 or 7 billion) other people KNOW it to be a concretely evidenced and accepted, Proven Fact. - Pun intended -



Sorry, Bebelina, but I, dmoe, must humbly disagree.

Bebelina, The Fundamental Laws of Observable Reality that Science is based on are not evolving or changing. That is why they are Fundamental Laws.
Life on this planet has kept on evolving for billions of years with gravity obeying the same exact Fundamental Laws of today. Though we may know MORE about it tomorrow or in another billion years - The Fundamental Laws will remain The Fundamental Laws.
As for being "open for re-evaluation on a regular basis", gravity is Tested and Confirmed (re-evaluated) on an almost daily basis - and to this very day, has yet to ever be PROVEN NON-EXISTENT.



So...Bebelina, you also "assume" that actions/events that you notice, can only occur because of what you also "assume" are the only Beliefs/Feelings/Motivations that could serve the person performing the actions/events you witness!

Bebelina, I have been aware of all life on this planet from my very first exposure to cognitive awareness nearly 6 decades ago.

What part of :

...led you to "assume" that I, dmoe, "...avoid getting attached to the beings we..." share this awesome world of nature alongside of, just so I can "... torture and abuse (them) to death for money and food."?



Which is the reason I mentioned that fact in the first place.



Again, Bebelina, I am not sure who these "we", nor am I sure I Grok'd, completely, your ^^above^^ statement!

However, I do firmly believe that we should be constantly striving to expand our intelligence and understanding of all of nature.

That expansion, can only be accomplished by diligent study, experimentation and observation.

Later, and again, Happy Holidays Bebelina.

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/basic_assumptions

 

[dumbest man on earth]

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/basic_assumptions

???

Read the whole page - they are in relation to experimenting to establishing proofs.

 

[Bebelina]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ics-proves-IS-afterlife-claims-scientist.html

Wonder if he's related to Adam Lanza..how common is that name?

 

[dumbest man on earth]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ics-proves-IS-afterlife-claims-scientist.html

Wonder if he's related to Adam Lanza..how common is that name?

Bebelina, well since "proves" and "claims" are practically not synonymous, and are also virtually not interchangeable in definition, I will not "assume" any reasoning for your Posting of ^^above^^ Link.

Would you care to enlighten us as to your aforementioned reasoning behind Posting the Link?

Bebelina, Why "wonder"? Why not investigate - do some research - Heck, just google it, or wiki, maybe even youtube!?!?

Bebelina, why "wonder", when the Internet is available to supply answers!?

Or you could let other Posters do the work for you!

Maybe 5000 people in U.S.with surname "Lanza" -:
http://family-names.findthedata.org/q/6256/603/How-popular-is-the-surname-Lanza ;
http://names.mongabay.com/surnames_L.htm

Of course - it would probably take longer than 2-minutes to trace genealogy to establish any family relationship.

 

[Bebelina]

Bebelina, well since "proves" and "claims" are practically not synonymous, and are also virtually not interchangeable in definition, I will not "assume" any reasoning for your Posting of ^^above^^ Link.

Would you care to enlighten us as to your aforementioned reasoning behind Posting the Link?

Bebelina, Why "wonder"? Why not investigate - do some research - Heck, just google it, or wiki, maybe even youtube!?!?

Bebelina, why "wonder", when the Internet is available to supply answers!?

Or you could let other Posters do the work for you!

Maybe 5000 people in U.S.with surname "Lanza" -:
http://family-names.findthedata.org/q/6256/603/How-popular-is-the-surname-Lanza ;
http://names.mongabay.com/surnames_L.htm

Of course - it would probably take longer than 2-minutes to trace genealogy to establish any family relationship.

I think you just like tagging Bebelina in every sentence to make your posts show up in association with googlesearches for Bebelina.

 

[dumbest man on earth]

I think you just like tagging Bebelina in every sentence to make your posts show up in association with googlesearches for Bebelina.

I am fairly certain that your "Psychic Skills" are somewhat non-existent if that is what you truly "think".

I honestly have absolutely no feelings as to whether or not my "posts show up in association with googlesearches for Bebelina"! I do not even use google as a search engine!

You seem to be the type of Poster that consistently fails to answer queries or provide any kind of clarification when requested, though.

What do you "think" about that?

 

[Bebelina]

I am fairly certain that your "Psychic Skills" are somewhat non-existent if that is what you truly "think".

I honestly have absolutely no feelings as to whether or not my "posts show up in association with googlesearches for Bebelina"! I do not even use google as a search engine!

You seem to be the type of Poster that consistently fails to answer queries or provide any kind of clarification when requested, though.

What do you "think" about that?

You seem to be the type of poster who likes to focus on sidetracks that are not relating to the topic whatsoever.

 

[dumbest man on earth]

You seem to be the type of poster who likes to focus on sidetracks that are not relating to the topic whatsoever.

So...

Yes, mice have souls.

That was not a dumb conclusion. But what survival advantage does the belief/hallucination of an afterlife have? I think the survival instinct is an instinct, and the reason only human ( not 100% sure about this, maybe whales and elephants too) are the only species committing suicide is just because of that belief.

It serves no survival purpose. Only makes death more comfortable, could that be a reason? Why must death be comfortable? Is it important to let go of the body? If so, what lets go of the body?

We don't know that because we haven't been able to decifer their language.

What people call supernatural today will be neanderthal tommorow. When you know the process behind the "trick" it's not magic anymore.

As a matter of fact yes.
Loved that series though.

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/basic_assumptions

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ics-proves-IS-afterlife-claims-scientist.html

Wonder if he's related to Adam Lanza..how common is that name?

I think you just like tagging Bebelina in every sentence to make your posts show up in association with googlesearches for Bebelina.

...I will leave you to your "assumptions".


Still, have a Happy Holiday Season.

 

[N9ne]

When one dies the brain releases a chemical called Dimethyltryptamine, or DMT in laymen terms. This is a compound of the tryptamine family which can in fact be found in virtually anything natural and grown, such as all kinds of plants and even our mind/brains (in the Pineal gland), this is actually the cause of dreaming in "REM" sleep, it a release of this compound that produces the images and sounds you are certain you are experiencing during the event, but can completely disregard as a simple dream you may never fully remember when you awake. This chemical reaction that is induced at time of death produces incredible hallucinations (same as dreaming), in fact its the most psycho active hallucination one can experience, even above an ayahuasca experience, which is still performed in many tribal cultures. there are even churches and religions based around the experiences felt from these effects, making it all more evident why people may have these "NDE". These experiences may have a much deeper connection to the universe than we know today, like its been said before, science isn't a set of facts, its always changing, the only thing for sure is that because of people on this site, pushing the limits of thier mind and expanding their knowledge, is the only possible way to land on any solid answer to this inquiry.

-We Are All Perpetual-