Why should anyone listen to the crackpot historians you cite? Israel purchased land from the arabs, they got attacked, Israel conquered more land in response to the attacks and that's how it stands today. I'm finished with your kill whitey nonsense- if you're going to just ignore history, there's nothing to debate with you.
I'm sorry, I couldn't hear what you said at the end there, your mouth was too full of dung for me to make it out.
According to Israeli historians about 2 million dunums of land were confiscated from private Arab owners using the Absentees Property Laws immediately after the Nakba. They also claim between 30,000 and 35,000 families were evicted from their homes using the laws even though there were not absent at the time.
The Custodian of Absentee Property does not choose to discuss politics. But when asked how much of the land of the state of Israel might potentially have two claimants - an Arab and a Jew holding respectively a British Mandate and an Israeli deed to the same property - Mr. Manor [the Custodian in 1980] believes that ‘about 70 percent’ might fall into that category (Robert Fisk, ‘The Land of Palestine, Part Eight: The Custodian of Absentee Property’, The Times, December 24, 1980, quoted in his book Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War).
A pre-meditated and pre-planned campaign of land theft started shortly following the ethnic operations of 1948. A law was passed in the Israeli Knesset in 1950, the “Absentees Property Law”. According to this law, any body that was not present directly before, during or after the war was, regardless of the reason, defined as “absentee” and his land as surrendered. Thus it was confiscated.
About 20 percent of the Palestinians in Israel were internally displaced in the 1948 war – in other words, while remaining in Israel, have been prevented from returning to their homes and villages. These displaced persons were considered as “absentees” and became refugees in their own country while their lands were confiscated.
More significantly was the fact that Palestinian Arabs who were driven out or obliged to leave during the war in 1948 were not allowed to return to their homes and lands. Those who tried to return were considered “infiltrators” and were shot to death by Unit 101 of the IDF, a company of paratroopers, which was formed under the command of Ariel Sharon.
Another law, “The Land Requisition Law”, was passed in 1953 to “legitimize” the expropriation of Arab lands. According to this law acts of theft and robbery of land were legal.
Moshe Smilansky, one of the pilgrim fathers of Zionism, published an article stating that: “When we came back to our country after having been evicted two thousand years ago, we called ourselves ‘daring’ and we rightly complained before the whole world that the gates of the country were shut. And now when they [Arab refugees] dared to return to their country where they lived for one thousand years before they were evicted or fled, they are called ‘infiltrees’ and shot in cold blood. Where are, Jews? Why do we not at least, with a generous hand, pay compensation to these miserable people? Where to take the money from? But we build palaces...instead of paying a debt that cries unto us from earth and heaven... And do we sin only against the refugees? Do we not treat the Arabs who remain with us as second-class citizens? Did a single Jewish farmer raise his hand in the parliament in opposition to a law that deprived Arab peasants of their land? How does sit solitary, in the city of Jerusalem, the Jewish conscience!” (From Haven to Conquest, p. 834)
In 1949 the Harazi and Maoudeh families were moved into the same building in the village of Salameh, which became the Kfar Shalem neighborhood in South Tel Aviv overnight. The contracts the heads of the families signed with the Custodian of Absentee Property testify that the Jewish Agency sent them to Salameh after they had immigrated from Yemen. The documents also indicate that they moved into the abandoned Arab house legally and with permission.
The authorities argue that the evacuation is aimed at improving the neighborhood. But the residents find it hard to shake off the feeling that the state, which sent them to the village in order to prevent its Palestinian inhabitants from returning, is now sloughing them off.
When the State of Israel was established, Salameh was one of the largest villages in the Jaffa area. Its lands stretched as far as the environs of the old central bus station. The village’s 7,000 inhabitants included many of Jaffa’s wealthy families, who had built houses in Salameh. Inhabitants of the nearby Hatikvah Quarter have told Effi Banai, a native of Kfar Shalem who is making a documentary film about the area’s history, that their neighborhood was fired upon from the direction of Salameh when fighting broke out in 1948. Therefore, when the rumor spread that the inhabitants of Salameh had fled, the inhabitants of the Hatikvah Quarter rejoiced.
The Palestinian inhabitants of the abandoned village were quickly replaced by 20,000 Jews, some of them refugees from the battle zones, most of them immigrants from Yemen. The new neighborhood was overcrowded, there were no paved roads and no sewage system. Most of the people who settled in Kfar Shalem worked in agriculture. The institutions of the Jewish Agency, the Histadrut labor federation and the Tel Aviv municipality wanted to find housing solutions for the immigrants but they also wanted to seize the area to avoid the Arabs coming back to a place located so close to the big city.
“It was a mitzvah [a good deed] to settle this place,” says Miriam Harazi, who recalled how she had evicted an Arab woman from Jaffa, who had offered to sell her home to her. The state wanted the remnants of Arab Salameh to disappear and for a new neighborhood to arise in their stead
According to Flapan[16], "a detailed account of exactly how "abandoned" Arab property assisted in the absorption of the new immigrants was prepared by Joseph Schechtman:
It is difficult to overestimate the tremendous role this lot of abandoned Arab property has played in the settlement of hundreds of thousands of Jewish immigrants who have reached Israel since the proclamation of the state in May 1948. Forty-seven new rural settlements established on the sites of abandoned Arab villages had by October 1949 already absorbed 25,255 new immigrants. By the spring of 1950 over 1 million dunams had been leased by the custodian to Jewish settlements and individual farmers for the raising of grain crops.
Large tracts of land belonging to Arab absentees have also been leased to Jewish settlers, old and new, for the raising of vegetables. In the south alone, 15,000 dunams of vineyards and fruit trees have been leased to cooperative settlements; a similar area has been rented by the Yemenites Association, the Farmers Association, and the Soldiers Settlement and Rehabilitation Board. This has saved the Jewish Agency and the government millions of dollars. While the average cost of establishing an immigrant family in a new settlement was from $7,500 to $9,000, the cost in abandoned Arab villages did not exceed $1,500 ($750 for building repairs and $750 for livestock and equipment).
Abandoned Arab dwellings in towns have also not remained empty. By the end of July 1948, 170,000 people, notably new immigrants and ex-soldiers, in addition to about 40,000 former tenants, both Jewish and Arab, had been housed in premises under the custodian's control; and 7,000 shops, workshops and stores were sublet to new arrivals. The existence of these Arab housesvacant and ready for occupation-has, to a large extent, solved the greatest immediate problem which faced the Israeli authorities in the absorption of immigrants. It also considerably relieved the financial burden of absorption[17].
An Israeli peace group said Tuesday it has obtained government data showing that nearly 40 percent of land covered by Jewish settlements in the West Bank is privately owned by Palestinians, including big portions of blocs that Israel intends to keep under any future peace agreement.
There is no debate here, except for the lies of Zionists.
They should be kicked off the land they have stolen.
Hey S.A.M., I have an idea for you! Let's take over our own country! Hmmm.... I think the Dominican Republic seems pretty nice. Ok, here's what we're gonna do. We're both going to write books and call them "non-fiction" and it'll be all about how the African "slaves" actually brought their own ships over and conquered the land. The whole story about Spanish people bringing them over as labourers, well it might be true but we'll just argue that it's lies and colonialist hooey. Then we'll send a couple of our kids over there with bombs strapped to their chests to go terrify the local residents, and if they dare respond we'll bleat and wail for the cameras when they come for us. We'll have that land soon my friend, part and parcel, the Dominican Republic is 100% ours! Awesome!![]()
Jewish immigration to Israel had been going on for a hundred years, they had a settled life and legitimately bought land. True WWII accelerated the process, but once there was a critical mass, they needed to form a real state. Apparently the Arabs never thought of doing that and made it difficult. There was a war and the Arabs lost, so they have no claim to anything seized in war. Israel actually had much more land, which they gave back. Thousands of years of Arab occupation doesn't mean anything if you try to kill me.
I'm sure that Israel could also return all their land if only, say, Jordan could do the same, where it's illegal for Jews to own any land at all. Or any air, probably.
If you shoot the natives who try to come back, can you claim their land under the absentee law? If you bodily pick up and throw out people, does their land come under absentee law? If Europeans with wealth
decide to create a state on top of your homes and remove you through bombs and terrorism
, does that entitle them to your homes?
Do people have a right to keep out immigrants who come to their land with the intent to create a theocratic state that excludes them?
Which they weren't back then, but go on.
Which the Arabs tried on them first, but go on.
Same as above, but go on.
Well, it's a darned shame that they established a theocratic land in Israel, because there was no such theocracy before. Like a history of oppressive riots (Nebi Musa) and practices against non-muslims (forcing them into "Quarters" - which you assure me they really like, though: like rats or pigs or dogs, maybe), or forcible expulsions of them from Palestine (1916-1919). And it's a darn good thing that sentiment isn't alive today, either, like in Jordan or Egypt (which evicted 25,000 Jews and threw 1,000 others into concentration camps) or Saudi Arabia or Turkey or Iraq or Syria or Libya or Iran or Indonesia or Malaysia or Afghanistan or Pakistan or Morocco or the UAE. Or at least Yemen is free of that attitude, anyway. Yessir. The ME is a shining example of what a people can do with their tolerance, if only they chose to. I mean choose to.
One thing that the report is still remembered for today was being a very early statement skeptical of the viability of a Jewish state in Syria. The logic of the commission went along the lines that the first principle to be respected must be self-determination. Since the commission had a very "maximalist" view of Syria (what would encompass modern Syria, Israel, Palestine, Jordan, and the Gaza Strip), it pointed out that a majority of Syrians were against the formation of a Jewish state — which was true. Therefore, the only way to establish a viable Jewish state would be with armed force to enforce it. This was precisely what the Commission wanted to avoid, so they dismissed the idea, saying that Zionists anticipated "a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants to Palestine". That said, there would be nothing wrong with Jews coming to "Israel" and simply living as Jewish Syrian citizens, but noted "nor can the erection of such a Jewish State be accomplished without the gravest trespass upon the "civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."
If you shoot the natives who try to come back, can you claim their land under the absentee law? If you bodily pick up and throw out people, does their land come under absentee law? If Europeans with wealth decide to create a state on top of your homes and remove you through bombs and terrorism, does that entitle them to your homes? Do people have a right to keep out immigrants who come to their land with the intent to create a theocratic state that excludes them?
It was like 4 or 5 Arab nations that intended to kill the Jews, so no, Arabs lost their right to come back there. They can go anywhere else where they are native, but not there unless Israelis are gracious enough to let them. The Arabs are not innocent, they committed mass murder and riots against Jews, they wanted their own theocracy, they commit terrorism. Excluding Arabs from Israel was not inevitable, indeed there are Arab Israelis, but they forced Israel's hand. I know many Arabs were innocent victims of circumstance and it was a tragedy, but given the state of many Arab and Muslim nations today, Israel can consider itself lucky.
Regardless of what nation state the land now known as Israel was intended to be part of (i.e. greater Syria, or greater Jordan, or greater Egypt), there is no law which says that the jews there couldn't declare their own state on their own sovereign land. Any group of peoples that can demonstrate exclusive sovereignty over the territory in which they live has the right to self-determination. The original declaration of dependence was on soil that the jews controlled and obtained almost 100% by legal, recognized methods. The arabs could have accepted it back then, which would have left the jews with tiny, scattered territories and the Palestinians with nearly the whole land under their sovereign control. They not only refused, but they attacked, en masse..
The Jews broke this covenant too, ethnically cleansing the Palestinians and as of today occupying 100% of the land.
ummm SAM, the Jews still have not sniped/bombed everyone in Gaza and West Bank, so its not 100%
In that case, since Israelis were killing from the moment they came in with aspirations for a zionist state, what right has Israel to exist at all? Considering the Arabs had no objection to Jews coming as citizens only as zionists, the Israeli position is the weaker one.
If it were only sporadic violence, one could discount it as cultural differences, I'm talking about real warfare. Your characterization of Jews sweeping down as violent European colonizers is pure propaganda.
There is ample evidence of forcible expulsions. The most notorious was the Lydda/Ramle death march. On July 12 and 13, 1948, on the direct order of Ben-Gurion, Israeli forces expelled the 50,000 residents of the towns of Lydda and neighboring Ramle. Yitzak Rabin, later to become Israeli Prime Minister, wrote in his memoirs that "there was no way of avoiding the use of force and warning shots in order to make the inhabitants march the ten or fifteen miles" required to reach Arab positions. Before they left, the townspeople were "systematically stripped of all their belongings," according to the Economist newspaper in London. Many of the expelled died in the 100-degree heat during the trek.[4]
Eventually the refugees from Lydda and Ramle made their way to refugee camps near Ramallah. Count Folke Bernadotte, Swedish nobleman and United Nations mediator, attempted to offer aid. He later wrote that "I have made the acquaintance of a great many refugee camps, but never have I seen a more ghastly sight than that which met my eyes here at Ramallah." (Later that year, Bernadotte was murdered by the Stern Gang. One of its leaders, Yitzhak Shamir, became Israeli Prime Minister in 1983.) [5]
Forcible expulsions were commonly practiced by the Jewish/Israeli military during 1948: Qisariya on February 15; Arab Zahrat al-Dumayri, al-Rama and Khirbat al-Sarkas in April; al-Ghabisiya, Danna, Najd and Zarnuqa the next month; Jaba, Ein Ghazal and Ijzim on July 24; and al-Bi'na and Deir al-Assad on October 31, among many others. Israeli historian Benny Morris has identified 34 Arab communities whose inhabitants were ousted. We may never know the full extent of the ejections, though, because, as Morris notes, the Israeli Defense Forces Archive "has a standing policy guideline not to open material explicitly describing expulsions and atrocities." [6]
More often, though, the instruments of expulsion were the terrorizing and demoralization of the Arab population. Jewish military forces used several tactics in pursuit of these goals.
One was psychological warfare. Radio broadcasts in Arabic warned of traitors in the Arabs' midst, spread fears of disease, reported confusion and terror among the Arabs, described the Palestinians as having been deserted by their leaders, and accused Arab militias of committing crimes against Arab civilians. [7]
Another effective psywar tactic involved the use of loudspeaker trucks. At various times they urged the Palestinians to flee before they were all killed, warned that the Jews were using poison gas and atomic weapons, or played recorded "horror sounds"--shrieks, moans, the wail of sirens and the clang of fire-alarm bells.[8]
A second tactic, economic warfare, was a favorite of Ben-Gurion, who described "the strategic objective" of the Jewish forces to be "to destroy the [Arab] urban communities." "Deprived of transportation, food, and raw materials," he later noted with satisfaction, "the urban communities underwent a process of disintegration, chaos, and hunger." [9]
A third technique to induce Arab flight was military attack on a town's Arab population. These assaults often used Davidka mortars--horribly inaccurate, but useful for creating terror--and barrel bombs. The latter consisted of barrels, casks, and metal drums filled with a mixture of explosives and fuel oil. Rolled into the Arab section of a town, they created "an inferno of raging flames and endless explosions." Another destructive maneuver described by writer Arthur Koestler was the "ruthless dynamiting of block after block" of the Arab community. [10]
Not uncommonly, the Jewish forces resorted to simple terrorism. Sometimes this took the form of bombs planted in vehicles or buildings: 30 killed in Jaffa on Jan. 4., 1948, with a truck bomb; 20 killed the next day when the Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem was bombed; 17 killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem two days later. [11]
More often, a Jewish military force entered an Arab village and massacred civilians, either during a night raid or after the seizure of the village. The massacres started early: Major General R. Dare Wilson, who served with the British troops trying to keep peace in Palestine before the end of the British Mandate, reported that on Dec. 18, 1947, the Haganah murdered 10, mostly women and children, in the Arab village of al-Khisas with grenades and machine gun fire. Wilson also described how on Dec. 31 the Haganah slaughtered another 14, again mostly women and children, again using machine guns and throwing grenades into occupied homes, this time in Balad Esh-Sheikh. [12]
Throughout 1948, the massacres continued: 60 at Sa'sa' on Feb. 15; 100 murdered in Acre after its May 18 seizure by the Haganah; several hundred at Lydda on July 12, including 80 machine-gunned inside the Dahmash Mosque; 100 at Dawayma on Oct. 29, with an Israeli eye-witness reporting that "the children were killed by smashing their skulls with clubs"; 13 young men mowed down by machine guns in open fields outside Eilabun on Oct. 30; another 70 young men blindfolded and shot to death, one after another, at Safsaf the same day; 12 killed at Majd al-Kurum, also on Oct. 30, with a Belgian U.N. observer writing that "there is no doubt about these murders"; an unknown number killed the next day at al-Bi'na and Deir al-Assad, described by a U.N. official as "wanton slaying without provocation"; 14 "liquidated," according to the Israeli military's report, at Khirbet al-Wa'ra as-Sauda on Nov. 2. [13]
A particularly repugnant method of killing employed by the Jewish militias was the blowing up of houses with their occupants still inside, often at night. The militia would place explosive charges around the stone houses, drench the wooden window and door frames with gasoline, and then open fire, simultaneously dynamiting and burning the sleeping inhabitants to death. [14]
The supreme act of terrorism by Jewish militias was the slaughter of nearly the entire village of Deir Yassin on April 9, 1948. According to Jacques de Reynier, a Swiss physician working for the Red Cross who arrived before the bloodletting had ended, 254 people were "deliberately massacred in cold blood." "All I could think of," he later said, "was the SS troops I had seen in Athens." According to Meir Pa'il, who served as a communications officer for the Haganah in Deir Yassin and was present during the assault, 25 male survivors were taken to Jerusalem and paraded through the streets in a perverse victory celebration, then shot in cold blood. [15]
http://www.mediamonitors.net/robinmiller3.html