Windows or Mac?

Discussion in 'Computer Science & Culture' started by Athelwulf, Dec 10, 2004.

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  1. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    I have to use a mac at work sometimes and to me the machine seems like something that should be on kmart shelves for 50 bucks, not a serious computer. They feel like a cheap toy put together and designed by child labourers. Child labourers who'd never used a computer before and don't understand what features would make the computing experience more pleasant.
    Actually, macs are so unpleasant I'm inclined to believe they were designed by bill gates specifically to be as bad as possible They're just terrible in every way there is to be terrible. I was actually shocked by how horrible they are. I thought it would be a coke vs royal crown cola scenario. Where one is mocked and eveyone consumes the other but technically the "inferior" one is better.
    No, macs truely are really really bad. They taste like how you would imagine rc cola to taste.
    There are tiny little advantages when it comes to graphic design, things you can do on a mac that you can't do on a pc, but it's really no contest overall.
    I simply wouldn't spend time on a computer if it had to be a mac. Thats the truth.
     
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  3. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    I disagree.
    The people that swear by MAC generally do so because:
    a.) MACs USED TO BE better at graphics and the "old school" users can't accept the fact, or are simply unaware, that Wintel has not only caught up, but surpassed them.
    b.) They learned on a MAC and don't know Windows.
    c.) It's something personal against Bill Gates.
    d.) They are self-deluded faux-elitist snobs that don't mind paying twice as much for software.
    e.) They think they look cute and match their outfits they are going to wear to school.

    Tell me, what do these "truely in the know" users tell you about MACs and why they think they are better?
    Do they have any specific reasons?

    About the only advantage MAC has over Windows is that it is slighty more stable and reliable (and that gap continues to close).

    MAC is kind of like BMW. At one point they were great machines, now they are far too over-rated and over-priced for what you get. You can only rest on your laurels for just so long.
     
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  5. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    MAC OS is the AOL of operating systems.
     
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  7. mercurio 9th dan seppuku sensei Registered Senior Member

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    I think the greatest shortcoming of the Mac is that you have no right mouse button - and no context-sensitive menus. Can't remember working on a Mac with a mouse wheel either, come to think of it. Small things that make life easy, but because of 'superiority' feelings somehow not copied immediately as a good thing.

    Biggest problem with Mac is it's own self-image of superiority, hardly made true (anymore).
     
  8. Xerxes asdfghjkl Valued Senior Member

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    This should be interesting:
    a) Mac is still better for graphics
    b) I learned on a windows 3.1 machine which I loved very much (as I said, they haven't made a good operating system since 3.1)The first computer I ever used was a green monocolour fugly machine(can't remember exactly what it was). The first modern computer I ever used was a mac, at school. And I have to say, using it felt more natural.

    --and its not that the mac is built on old reused code and windows is. M$ operates on reverse compatibility. Mac is unafraid to innovate and move in a new direction (and doubly so for the open source OS's)
    c) I don't know Bill. And besides, anyone with a brain knows that he's not 'in control' of M$'s direction. The stockholders are. He is the puppet, and thats what I fear.

    Steve Jobs is a crazy egomaniac, unafraid to go in a new direcion because his reputation for innovating affords him that privilege. Mac users trust him. Stockholders trust him!
    d) I don't believe in paying for software. I use free, open source apps whenever possible. If I were to pay software, said software would have to be of high quality- which most mac propriety is
    e) ok, now this is just stupid. Most computers running windows look gaudy and cheap to me. Should we punish the mac for setting the standards in style?
    Now I know you're computer illiterate. Mac is built on freeBSD, by a dedicated team of engineers with a clear direction. Windows is built on reused code under a huge beaurocracy of double digit IQ's.

    I'm curious- what do you use your home computer for?

    Java will come eventually. As for the other two, Mac is making some good strides. It might happen someday
     
  9. Aborted_Fetus Bored Registered Senior Member

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    Java is absolutely horrible. I hate it with a passion. I took a Java programming class this semester in school, and it sucks so bad. I came in thinking that it was going to be cool, but I was wrong. It sucks to program, plus every program written in Java runs like shit. C++ is so much more powerful, it kicks Java's ass.
     
  10. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    From my user's experience I'm with Fetus on the Java issue.

    p.s. I'm a linux runner and am not interested in neither Mac or Windows.
     
  11. Voodoo Child Registered Senior Member

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    C++ is certainly better performance wise. Java has lower development costs, is faster to write in and deploys on anything with a JVM, though.

    Is disputable. Lags behind in 3-D, but is better for video.

    I'd disagree. The number of times I've had a classic ap fold on me or got the eternal swirling disc of death in Mac dwarfs the number of times I've managed to crash an XP program. Historically, though Macs have been better.
     
  12. OpteronGuy I just killed you Registered Senior Member

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    Roman, We have a good discussion going on in another thread about SciFi wars n all but I have to disagree with you about the "In the Know" of things. I work with computers for a living and am "in the know" but do not think a Mac is the epitomy of computers. Nor do I think a Windows box is either. To me it is going to come down to what you like more, more or less. There are fanatics on all sides of the argument. Some say Macs are the greatests, others Windows (I'll never understand that) and then the Unix/Linux guys.

    I do see the pros and cons of both OS's. In the standing of security(Besides Linux based machines) , looks (the machine itself and some aspects of the OS) Mac will get my vote. However there are several programs that will let you change the look of your Windows XP box to however you like. Windows is obviously the least secure OS but if you are a semi-wise computer user you know how to make things more secure for yourself. Linux… Well, since OSX is built off of a Unix core, there isn’t much to argue about in terms of security/looks.

    Stability on both OS is subjective if you ask me. You can get a WinXP box that never crashes just the same as you could get a Mac box that never crashes, or you could get a box of either one that runs like total crap and you end up hating it for life, meaning you could end up with the biggest lemon of all times in the world of computers. I’ve used Linux, Mac, and Windows at this point in the game they are all pretty stable if you ask me.

    Support is growing for both Macs and Linux and I think it is great. There needs to be more competition out there against the Microsoft juggernaut but I have to give it to Bill, when he schemed his way to the top back in the day he ended up creating a helluva empire that is going to be hard to bring down. However, it is apparent that (Now I am not truly in depth with the Mac market but I do know it is growing more and more everyday) Windows has HUGE support among venders of all types. This obviously gives MS a huge advantage.

    If you are a gamer, well, Windows is the way to go. I know games are growing on Mac and Linux, however Windows still holds the vast majority here. Some will debate it but whenever you walk into a game store, you see more Windows based games than Mac or Linux.

    So basically what does this all come down to? From what I remember the starter of this thread wanted to know if he should get a Mac or Windows box. Well, here's my .02 in the situation. Get whatever you like and whatever floats your boat. Chances are if you pick one thing over the other you are going to like it.
     
  13. Hideki Matsumoto ñ{ìñÇÃóùâ?ÇÕêSÇÃíÜÇ©ÇÁóàÇ ÈÅB Registered Senior Member

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    Macintosh G5 Vs a top of the line pentium. Results showed the G5 outperformed the PC in almost every spect. The Bus speed for a G5 is 1GHz vs a bus speed of 400-450Mhz for a PC.
    Processor speeds in flops/sec is much faster for a G5. Graphic cards for the G5 go all the way to a dual 256Mb AGP for a wopping 512Mb VRAM.
     
  14. OpteronGuy I just killed you Registered Senior Member

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    What bus speed is that? FSB? If so then Intel has theirs up to 1066 now, AMD Opterons run at 800.
    Also you can't really benchmark a Mac Vs PC due to arcitectural differneces(forgot to mention that earlier). For business applications there is more debate as to what to get but for home use it's pretty much what you like.
     
  15. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    Windows is not inherently less secure than MAC or even Linux.
    It's just that there are so many more people attacking Windows because of it's popularity, more people are bound to find the holes.
    Of course, in effect, this makes Windows less secure, but if you know what you are doing and stay on top of patches, it's not a problem.
    The same goes for stability.
    If teh machine is built and maintained correctly, you could have a Windows machine (Win98 2E and later or NT 4.0 or later) that is rock solid.
    I have built machines that ran non-stop for several years without a bit of down-time (except when I rebooted it myself for installs and such).
    The stability of Win2K rivals Sun now.

    As for graphics...
    As I said, MAC USED to be better for video and graphics.
    Wintel machines were limited to 28 fps, then went to something like 65 while MAC was at well over 300 fps. That dam has been burst, though, and any well built XP machine will perform at at least the same level as any MAC.
    MAC can't hold that torch anymore, but people still tout it as better at graphics.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2004
  16. Xerxes asdfghjkl Valued Senior Member

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    The gui and IE are tied into the main OS. How could that not be inherently insecure?

    I don't hate the language perse... but why use java when you have something like python

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  17. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    Please explain to me exactly how that makes it insecure.
     
  18. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    I use macs in school. They do malfunction often. Can't tell you why, I've never been interested. It's a different OS that will take time to get used to. But no, it's not "easier" than Windows, they're about the same. A lot of people I know hate getting used to Macs.
    If you really wish for stability and control and don't plan for sophisticated graphics apps and games, why get an expensive Mac OS X (latest version) if you can get Linux for free?
     
  19. Roman Banned Banned

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    If measuring a system by video games is a measure of the system, then the gamers certainly know their shit. However, just because you can cheaply cram a Windows full of processors, then go out and buy from a large selection of games (thank the large selection for Microsoft market share, not quality), doesn't make Windows superior to Mac except in a very tiny arena.



    I'd agree, the Mac isn't perfect, but in comparison to what else is out there, it is much better. Isn't Windows still running off BIOS, or did they finally decide to get competitive with XP?

    Other than price and compatability, Macs are superior to Windows (unless you like using mediocre systems that feel flimsy, cheap and like a corporate dick stealing your money). The only reason you'd find Windows superior is if you like corporate dick or video games.

    I like Apple because when they make products, they're making products to be innovative. Windows on the other hand just reacts and makes a crummy knock-off version to keep up.

    But I think Doc has illustrated the innate dumbassness of this arguement, and so concede.

    I agree, wheels and right buttons are nice; that's why my mouse has two buttons and a wheel. OS X natively supports heaps of hardware.

    I've never had luck with school computers, as they're usually pretty cheap and at the very low end of things, as well as taking a lot of abuse. At my school everything is Mac, and every single one of them crashes constantly.
     
  20. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    I'd agree, the Mac isn't perfect, but in comparison to what else is out there, it is much better. Isn't Windows still running off BIOS, or did they finally decide to get competitive with XP?

    Please say that you meant DOS, not BIOS.

    And if you meant DOS, that means you have so little knowledge/experience with a recent Windows machine as to render your negative judgements highly suspect.

    Since you cannot buy a case, motherbord and processor and assemble an Apple machine that way, I have no interest in them. Since I haven't used any sort of Apple machine in many years, I really have no other opinion about them.
     
  21. kazakhan Registered Abuser Registered Senior Member

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    And if like me you get a shiny new Powerbook and think OSX sucks, you can always install linux etc.
    Quite sometime ago that was true, not now.
    I would bet there is more pirated software available for windows simply because it has the biggest market share.
     
  22. mercurio 9th dan seppuku sensei Registered Senior Member

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    Possible, but it does not make the software suddenly aware of its right-button, and provides very handy context-sensitive menus. You'd have to hand-program everything into the OS, for every machine. Yikes.
     
  23. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    I checked the price of Macs on the internet; the ones we have are quite expensive. All Macs are expensive, and the ones we have are the medium-priced ones. Not only that, but we have about 6 full labs of them, or more. Add to that decent color printers. I'm in an art school

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    Each time it's the end of the semester there are malfunctions.

    Ah, I remember another thing: the zip discs are like the most fragile piece of equipment I've ever seen. USB memory devices act weird. When trying to delete a file from a memory device, it disappears, but the mb ammount available remains the same.
     
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