What is the goal of integrating mentally retarded people in normal schools?

shichimenshyo said:
How do you know that these persons are in pain? Just because they dont function on a normal human level does not mean they are in pain, nor does it mean they waive the right to have a life.
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Would you like to live like that? No?

Imagine, never being able to truly understand and comprehend, never being able to be independent.......truly, that is a life of suffering.

If we could, however, detect disabilities in the womb and thus abort before birth, it'd be ideal as the "baby" is nonexistent.
 
Norsefire said:
There is no goal, it's pointless. And I don't want to seem like an insensitive twat....I truly do pity the severely disabled and I do feel sorry for them and I hope they can be as happy as possible.

However within society there is still the division between the "able" and disabled. Now this is no problem for minor disabilities, most disabled people can live normal lives. But the severely disabled do not belong in normal society. As much as I pity them, if we want society to be as "perfect" as possible then we need the people to be healthy and fit.

This brings up a question: is it ethical to euthanize the disabled? As monstrous as that may sound, is it not the more logical and the more, in fact, sensitive option?
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My friend has high functioning autism, cannot walk due to a degenerative disease, and has various other disorders like sensory integration disorder and seizures.

He is still happy, and doing well at life. He is lively and happy most of the time, and says he actually LIKES being in his wheelchair as it is comfortable (Yeah, I know :)).

You would give him a lethal injection?
 
He's happy, apparantly, so no.

As I said the goal is to just eliminate the disabilities altogether before birth thus nobody ever has to suffer.
 
It'd only be abortion, and you don't disagree with that do you? You could've eliminated me or anyone when I was a zygote but it wouldn't matter then.
 
I agree with abortion if the woman simply doesn't want the child. It's her body. She shouldn't have to carry something inside her if she does not wish to.

But aborting a fetus you otherwise wanted because of a disorder that may not even be too severe?

That's in the same category as aborting only girl fetuses, if you ask me.
 
Greater good, my ass.

Some people have severe disabilities but can still contribute to society.

Where are you drawing this line exactly?
 
visceral_instinct said:
Greater good, my ass.

Some people have severe disabilities but can still contribute to society.

Where are you drawing this line exactly?
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When they can no longer function....it's a rather arbitrary line, but so too is nearly every milestone or classification in society.

However eventually if we want a perfect society we have to suck it up and do the dirty work.

I just hope medicine can cure these people in the future.
 
Norsefire said:
Who ever wants to feel sorry? I do not want people to suffer. What good comes out of the disabled suffering? Is it not best to relieve their pain?
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To relief any pain you first have to be alive.
You are just making up excuses because they make you feel sorry and you don't like that.
 
Enmos said:
To relief any pain you first have to be alive.
You are just making up excuses because they make you feel sorry and you don't like that.
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It's for the greater good. How else will we have a perfect society?
 
Norsefire said:
Would you like to live like that? No?

Imagine, never being able to truly understand and comprehend, never being able to be independent.......truly, that is a life of suffering.
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How very, very true. Imagine never being able to understand or comprehend the truly important things in life; imagine being unaware that chronic pain is commonplace; imagine deluding yourself in to thinking you are independent; imagine thinking deep egocentricity is the norm.

Truly such a person would be better off dead. When do you intend to end it all?
 
Ophiolite said:
How very, very true. Imagine never being able to understand or comprehend the truly important things in life; imagine being unaware that chronic pain is commonplace; imagine deluding yourself in to thinking you are independent; imagine thinking deep egocentricity is the norm.

Truly such a person would be better off dead. When do you intend to end it all?
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I am a functional human being.
 
Norsefire said:
When they can no longer function....it's a rather arbitrary line, but so too is nearly every milestone or classification in society.
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How is this determined pre-birth? Amniocentesis is a pretty risky procedure and can cause a miscarriage, so should each pregnant mother be forced to undergo this procedure? Or are we forcing genetic profiling and determining risk of a couple having a child with a disability? These options seem to be contrary to your current philosophy.
I just hope medicine can cure these people in the future.
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What medicine cures genetic disorders?
 
Norsefire said:
It's for the greater good. How else will we have a perfect society?
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I'm sorry Norsefire, I have forgotten what your current definition of a "perfect society" is. Is it one in which everybody is just like you?
 
Norse, I thought you were an anarcho-capitalist, and didn't believe in perfecting society for the greater good any more...
 
Norsefire said:
I don't. I'm simply saying if you wanted to, it'd be necessary to eliminate human disability and disease.
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Well, since "disability" is relative, and some people can broad jump 25-30 feet or have IQ's approaching 200, where do you draw the line on your way to perfection?

What qualifies as "disease"? Acne? Should we eliminate anyone (in the womb if you prefer) that has a genetic predisposition to acne?

Come on, Norse, this is just like the arguments you used to present before you went all right wing / conservative / liberalist / capitalist / anarchist / whatever on us...
 
Norsefire said:
I am a functional human being.
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Not by my definitions.

If I subscribed to the concepts of eugenics and euthenasia, which I don't, someone with your attitudes would be top of my list for disposing of, since the central human attributes of empathy and cooperation are absent from your psyche. As such you are of no value to a 'perfect society' and would be best put out of your misery. However, since I don't approve, or condone such behaviour (putting down flawed individuals such as yourself) you will just have to suffer through life being a selfish dickhead.

Try not to scare the children.
 
Utopian ideals being exercised with deliberate bad management and under funding to promote increased segregation.
 
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