Psychosis ~What is it?

[Light]

The problem with all this, Light, is that it is easy to forget that we are talking about a persons life here, his dreams and aspirations, we are talking about a persons sense of self and self-proprietry.
What you are saying is quite true, the best of a bad deal, sure, but that is not going to make it any easier for those who have to get up in the morning and deal with a day that they can not be receptive too because of their medicated states.

It is also true that many [unfortunately not the majority] find a reasonable balance between stupification and daily needs. A doctor that has patiently worked with the patient to find the most comfortable solution. They are very fortunate indeed but possibly this is more because their experiences are less traumatic than others rather than just the good will and patience of the doctor.

It seems that the more objective the doctor is the better the patient outcomes. Objectivity being needed all round I feel.

And as most legal systems have moved towards, a greater respect of a persons freewill and personal integrity. nice in print and great when it is adhered to which unfortunately is not always the case.

I cannot speak for others but I assure that that I always keep in mind that we're taking about real people, real lives, real feelings and real aspirations!

Yes, the doctors in this field are like any others - they are people, too. That means there are bad ones, mediocre ones and good ones. Many of them actually DO care about the "whole patient" and work with them to find the right balances of medication(s) along with changes in life-style. But as in all things, it's up to the individual to find a good doctor.

Consider this: have you ever moved many miles from where you were before and had to locate a new auto mechanic? (I have, several times, and it's a real pain.) Did you just accept the first one or two or three you came across? I dare say not - I sure didn't. And choosing a doctor is not one bit different.

But alas, that's not what many people do. With the mechanic, sure, but not with doctors. They may go (or be taken) and if the doc doesn't seem interested in them, doesn't take enough time, brushes off their thoughts and comments - what happens? Far too many of them write off the whole medical profession. People who have a toothache that isn't readily relieved or some other pain that persists won't settle for that - but far too many people with mental disorders WILL!!

Do you wonder why that is? I submit to you that in the very first place it's precisely because they are mentally disturbed to begin with.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Thank you, Quantum, that was most kind of you.



Not really. In fact, most dreams are VERY irrational. The few, however, that are rational leaves the individual with much the same feeling as having watched a segment of a movie.Many times that kind is nothing more than a replay of some recent event though some of the details may change.

"Lucid dreams" are greatly misunderstood by most people. Actually, they are just normal dreams but the individual has a propensity for heightened sense of awareness to something that occurred in the dream. Also, dreams that are considered 'lucid' are usually those that were interrupted - individual still in REM mode - and thus are much clearer and easier to remember. I read the results of a sleep study in Psychology Today that found those two factors alone accounted for well over 90% of what people classed as lucid.

However, there actually IS one type of dream that is considered a symptom of disorder - recurrent. That class can come from different sources as well. A common one is nothing more than a harmless mild form of fixation/obsession on a certain series of events or a personal phobia. And here once again, persistence is key. If the same dream lasts for more than about a week, an evaluation is indicated.

hey light,

with lucid dreaming i have to comment, i have lucid dreams quite often, and its not how you describe it, i can control my dreams completely, im not just aware of whats going on, i control whats going on, like i control my hands typing this message right now, yes maybe the visuals are a little off and wierd colours sometimes, but its not that easy to tell a real lucid dream from reality, i actually thought i was awake and walking around once, but i was dreaming and in control, thats how real it can be sometimes,


one that sticks out most is when i was dreaming about japan and samurais, and i realised i was dreaming but didnt wake up, i then looked down and drew my sword and was fighting all these people i controlled every movement as if it were my real body and not inside my head,


lucid dreaming is not like a dream, a dream is like watching a movie, a lucid dream is like real life, you are yourself, you move your legs at will, wiggle your fingers, look out of your eyes like normal, see infront of you, about 180 range, but the difference is you can manipulate yur surroundings, and also do things you cannot do in real life, it is "better" than real life i should say, more advanced. like heaven kinda, but i cant choose where i go, im usually stuck in some kind of set scenario untill i manage to break free of the rules at hand, wich is hard.




peace

 

[Quantum Quack]

moving the discussion along:

and is not this disturbance essentially and amplification of some sort? An exageration or an magnification?

when a person is hurting are they not more sensitive to further pain.?

Of course they are....

so we medicate to lower the amplification of their reaction to what they sense or what they are aware of......it makes sense to do so, however the medication is then always needed as no other therapy is considered as really possible.

I have proposed that therapy designed to de-amplify or at least learn to cope better with an amplified awareness would make great gains, but to do so one has to accept that they are aware and not simply deluded and making stuff up.
And that is why the problem is unable to be solved and only stupified, because we refuse to accept that even if the interpretation of that experience maybe incorrect that the experience existed in the first place.
If no one believes you then no one can understand you....so it is easy to see why "help rejection" is prevalent. Simply because it is not the help that is needed by the patient but only the help needed by the society.

OK...what I have said is full of holes and possibly one sided but I felt it needed to be said any way.

 

[PHPlatonica]

I would Like to Just interject that I accept the Use of Chemicals to help me.
Mine happen to be Legally Prescribed Antidepressants and such... With out them I would Type backwards and be posting things that would get me kicked off... LOL... So
I don't think that the Use of chemicals to prevent an unwanted effect of Psychosis is a bad thing... Again though, there's a Strange invisible Line between what Works and Doesn't. Like Dose the Side effect of Becoming Diabetic From Zyprexa out Weigh the Pain or Confusion of a Delusion? That, in turn, might Be harmful to another person?
at that point, sadly, the Drug is NOT about the Safety of the Patient after all, it is about the Safety Of OTHERS.... WHICH makes the illusion that they ARE not there to Protect and you YOU all the more Real. ALL Chemicals are Bad For the Liver.... So this Case could be brought up on many Prescriptions. Why a "Patient" May Feel a sense of Rejection from society AGAIN. Because here not only are their strange thought Process happening, but your very own Species is ALSO thinking and finding you a threat. It is Almost Instinct to React with Rage and And Fear too Protect ones self. there is no "self control" on either side of the spectrum. So the person Dose Feel Threatened and Betrayed, and gets a thought "I will get to Me Before you Can!" Reaction. This makes the situation in many cases much Worse. Now, the person IS a threat because Society really IS telling them they are Wrong and are trying to "hurt them"... And We have turned the very episode inside out and back again at a different angle.
In a Lot of cases I think that People who are seeking Help for a situation SEE with their own eyes how society "Treats" people with this "problem". We have SEEN Medicated schizophrenics. With our own eyes, we have SEEN how they have been responded to by Dr. s and the Nursing staff when they are "out of hand".... We have seen how the "Different" are Treated, and once we notice how "Different" we are as what society says we should be, you tend to Then associate that experience to yourself and become angry and vengeful. it is Human Tendency to Empathies situations and bring the reality they see to them self... I think the best thing to Do, whether the case is "Prophetic psychosis" or not, is to Really Watch how your response to the experience is.

 

[Light]

moving the discussion along:

and is not this disturbance essentially and amplification of some sort? An exageration or an magnification?

when a person is hurting are they not more sensitive to further pain.?

Of course they are....

so we medicate to lower the amplification of their reaction to what they sense or what they are aware of......it makes sense to do so, however the medication is then always needed as no other therapy is considered as really possible.

I have proposed that therapy designed to de-amplify or at least learn to cope better with an amplified awareness would make great gains, but to do so one has to accept that they are aware and not simply deluded and making stuff up.
And that is why the problem is unable to be solved and only stupified, because we refuse to accept that even if the interpretation of that experience maybe incorrect that the experience existed in the first place.
If no one believes you then no one can understand you....so it is easy to see why "help rejection" is prevalent. Simply because it is not the help that is needed by the patient but only the help needed by the society.

OK...what I have said is full of holes and possibly one sided but I felt it needed to be said any way.

QQ, I can't give you all the answers to this because I'm far from being up-to-date on pharmacology. However, I do know that there are a wide range of medications available that don't have any of the undesirable effects you are so opposed to. One entire class is the SRIs - seratonin re-uptake inhibitors. Ans there are plenty of others as well. Seriously - I believe you are placing far too much emphasis on something that really isn't that widespread of a problem with proper drug selection and treatment.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Unfortunately Light, our over crowded psych wards will give testimony otherwise.
However your point is noted and yes I may also be over amplified on the subject....hmmmmm....

 

[Light]

Unfortunately Light, our over crowded psych wards will give testimony otherwise.
However your point is noted and yes I may also be over amplified on the subject....hmmmmm....

Also note that those wards are publicly funded and operated by the state. Not exactly the kind of place where you would expect quality care and treatment. And even besides that, the one interred there have been placed because they usually pose real threats to the general population or as a result of sentencing by a criminal court (which is another form of the same thing). A long way from being your "average" patient.

 

[Light]

hey light,

with lucid dreaming i have to comment, i have lucid dreams quite often, and its not how you describe it, i can control my dreams completely, im not just aware of whats going on, i control whats going on, like i control my hands typing this message right now, yes maybe the visuals are a little off and wierd colours sometimes, but its not that easy to tell a real lucid dream from reality, i actually thought i was awake and walking around once, but i was dreaming and in control, thats how real it can be sometimes,


one that sticks out most is when i was dreaming about japan and samurais, and i realised i was dreaming but didnt wake up, i then looked down and drew my sword and was fighting all these people i controlled every movement as if it were my real body and not inside my head,


lucid dreaming is not like a dream, a dream is like watching a movie, a lucid dream is like real life, you are yourself, you move your legs at will, wiggle your fingers, look out of your eyes like normal, see infront of you, about 180 range, but the difference is you can manipulate yur surroundings, and also do things you cannot do in real life, it is "better" than real life i should say, more advanced. like heaven kinda, but i cant choose where i go, im usually stuck in some kind of set scenario untill i manage to break free of the rules at hand, wich is hard.
peace

Consider yourself pretty lucky, Chi. That type of dreaming is very rare, even among those who have lucid dreams quite often. Regardless of the intensity of the dream the VAST number of people who have them have little to no control at all.

 

[Light]

I would Like to Just interject that I accept the Use of Chemicals to help me.
Mine happen to be Legally Prescribed Antidepressants and such... With out them I would Type backwards and be posting things that would get me kicked off... LOL... So
I don't think that the Use of chemicals to prevent an unwanted effect of Psychosis is a bad thing... Again though, there's a Strange invisible Line between what Works and Doesn't. Like Dose the Side effect of Becoming Diabetic From Zyprexa out Weigh the Pain or Confusion of a Delusion? That, in turn, might Be harmful to another person?
at that point, sadly, the Drug is NOT about the Safety of the Patient after all, it is about the Safety Of OTHERS.... WHICH makes the illusion that they ARE not there to Protect and you YOU all the more Real. ALL Chemicals are Bad For the Liver.... So this Case could be brought up on many Prescriptions. Why a "Patient" May Feel a sense of Rejection from society AGAIN. Because here not only are their strange thought Process happening, but your very own Species is ALSO thinking and finding you a threat. It is Almost Instinct to React with Rage and And Fear too Protect ones self. there is no "self control" on either side of the spectrum. So the person Dose Feel Threatened and Betrayed, and gets a thought "I will get to Me Before you Can!" Reaction. This makes the situation in many cases much Worse. Now, the person IS a threat because Society really IS telling them they are Wrong and are trying to "hurt them"... And We have turned the very episode inside out and back again at a different angle.
In a Lot of cases I think that People who are seeking Help for a situation SEE with their own eyes how society "Treats" people with this "problem". We have SEEN Medicated schizophrenics. With our own eyes, we have SEEN how they have been responded to by Dr. s and the Nursing staff when they are "out of hand".... We have seen how the "Different" are Treated, and once we notice how "Different" we are as what society says we should be, you tend to Then associate that experience to yourself and become angry and vengeful. it is Human Tendency to Empathies situations and bring the reality they see to them self... I think the best thing to Do, whether the case is "Prophetic psychosis" or not, is to Really Watch how your response to the experience is.

That was very well put! Excellent description.

I certainly don't mean to detract from your fine post but feel I need to correct one minor point. Not all drugs have an adverse reaction on the liver. Among those that do, it's a few of the NSAIDs that can be some of the worst offenders - particularly acetaminophen. But as I said a few moments ago, I haven't kept up with all the pharmacology.

 

[PHPlatonica]

To many Pharmaceutical Companies (Pfizer, Lilly.. etc) Are in the Market now. More often then Not the Advertising Side of the Company Gets paid more then the actual Scientist who is Working on a New Drug... There are Many Chemical companies out there. It has become a Financial Opportunity For a lot of these companies.... And Competition is fierce. One has to wonder if There is some one who is Really looking to Help an individual because they care for the species.. Or Are they a Regular Family man/women who Clock their times and in it strictly for the money?

 

[duendy]

yeah. dr Light....either bullies em or drugs em.....to 'protect society'. such is the State of things.

he is manipulative. watch out!

also watch him now diagnose me as 'paranoid'........!

tis isn't all about polite 'civil' concersation. a lot about this demands you be verry bold and challenge this outright scam.

CHILDREN are now its victims in millions. parents are threatened and have chldren taken off them. some children put on 'meds' get disease--REAL disease!!--and some die. And thepeople that had authorized coercive drug treatment then claim no responsibvility. what? you think polite convo gonna help that evil scam do you.......of course i am not promoting no flme war. but dont get sucked into their insidious power freakery.

 

[PHPlatonica]

Duendy, I like you a lot. your boisterousness, your experiences and your Insight. The way you Express your self... Most of your Views. But Knowing Light Actually holds a PHD is More Exciting to me then Not... actually. And I Think it makes the Conversation more Valuable With his shared Knowledge and insight as well.. I Don't See Him Trying to "diagnose" Any one but rather Correct us on The Terms We use from what has already been studied bye him self and others. I think That too is Valuable Because That means WE don't have to get our own history and PHD ...God Knows we have our own. Therefore we can Go at this From all Spectrums. Keep in mind, not that light is a Dr., But His Insight comes From schooling AND Experience. He is not Trying to Doctor any of us. He is Just Correcting Term usage as Shown and seen by The Medical Field and his Experiences. I For One Do not want to See him Or you, Or any one Else out of this Conversation.... It's Important. Always remember that Every thing said is ONLY an Opinion. Just because one can "State" an Opinion more matter of faculty, doesn't mean they are any more right then you, and they have just as much right to be heard, (Read). So Really, is there any way the badgering can stop just a little? At least on this Thread. We Could Always open up a "badgering" Thread... LOL.... Where we all become Verbal and Literate sadists.. But, Then We ALL Would be banned. LOL...

 

[PHPlatonica]

Well This is Interesting From John Hokins.....
The boundary between spiritual experience and mental disorder remains unclear and should invite collaboration between psychiatry and other disciplines, including theology. Jackson and Fulford (1997), using the tools of analytic philosophy, have proposed a model allowing principled differentiation between spiritual experience and psychotic symptoms based on the personal values of the subject, a cognitive problem-solving model. Spiritual experience is described as positively evaluated psychotic experience, which enables the subject to do more than he or she normally does. In the present paper, it is claimed that values and actions cannot alone always discriminate between religious experience and psychopathology. With reference to three case studies, drawn from the practice of one of us, it is argued that spirituality is not all about experience and that it cannot be understood without reference to the subject's personal history and spiritual tradition, however implicit or fragmented. This approach would allow an account of ordinary religious experience in those who have suffered ego disablement during mental illness. Drawing primarily on the Christian tradition, we argue that the use of theological criteria may allow levels of discrimination between spiritual experience and mental disorder not allowed for by philosophical psychopathology.

 

[duendy]

hah...you dont know PH...'Light' has done nuthin but bad mputh me from FIRST time he replies to a pst of mine

if you dont think 'diagnose' means him insiuating i am brain damaged from drug taking --as he judges te situation not
even having a..errr 'consultation' face to face wit me, where i would have provately...shared wit him my personal stuff. well...dont think you are seeing it, quite frankly

his so-called phd, if he efen HASone--it dont show...does not impress me one jot. i am more interested in how he behaves himself. and wit THAT i am very much NOT impressed...wahtsoever

you say we are all entitled to opinion, and i agree wid yu. i exressed MINE. and i in no way would want to censpr him. but THAT is what he tried to do me. yip....he tried to make others here ignore me.amd knowing him get me trown out

if you want to be matey matey with him and trust his shit, then that is your problem.
But i have ceased to have any interest in what he beliefes or says.. not that i ever did from first rude meet...

 

[MetaKron]

Hey,..... It's alright Man... Chill... Don't let any one get to you like that. Take a Deep breath... Forget it. Meant nothing to me, And I bet didn't mean much to any one else. I mean.. except for a chuckle.. but come on.. you Guys are fine, And Have BOTH Valuable Insight! I don't want to see either of you Knocked out of here because your Angry. So Come on, Just blow it off.. No one needs the last word... ok? Were Cool.

Here, Know why the bicycle wouldn't stand up?
It was "two Tired"
Feel better?

Light has a history here. He is a very nasty little troll who deliberately disrupts productive conversations and has nothing useful to contribute. He's also obsessed with telling people about what he does with domestic housepets.

 

[MetaKron]

Hey, it's unreality. Live with it, troll-ass.

Metakron, you are the same silly little fool you always were. There was also no such event (concerning household pets) as you have claimed here. Neither was there the event you claimed a few posts earlier. Either you have me completely confused with someone else or you "problem" is much worse than any of us suspected.

Oh - and I've never once exhibited even the slightest bit of paranoia in my entire life. You, on the other hand...

And I've actually contributed quite a bit to this conversation, thank you very little.

And tell me - do you still insist that heat pumps violate a basic law of thermodynamics? You were very adamant about that before.

 

[MetaKron]

I would be among the very first to agree to that in some cases. I don't have any figures on hand but I'd be willing to bet that the number of those is far less than you may have been led to believe.

But let me ask you - if that does happen, is it worth it in order to get rid of the voices, internal pain and the things that drive many to suicide? Nothing in this world is perfect, but speaking for myself and some I've known, I'd choose that over being a serious risk to myself and others around me. In an instant.

But God told me that you already ARE a serious risk to yourself, others, and your pets. Please volunteer for chemical restraints now, Light.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Ok try this:

"Psychosis is a rational outcome that appears irrational due to our ignorance of it's causality"

"Psychosis is a rational outcome due to the extreme pressures of unknown origin placed on a person"
"Psychosis is no longer deemed as psychosis once the unknown causality and pressures have been rationalised"

"Psychosis is in itself a statement of ignorance"

"The use of the word psychosis is a statement of our ignorance"

"Psychosis is the denial of reality"

"Psychosis is aberant thought or behaviour that is subjectively determined as psychosis by those not knowing the cause of that behaviour"

Any points you would care to discuss??

 

[MetaKron]

You do know what happens, don't you? The drugs have a placebo effect on the the people who are involved with the patient. They expect different things and they get what they expect. The placebo effect lasts until the patient "messes up" or "acts out" again.

Why do I hate liars so much? It is because they have been so devastatingly effective in getting my mother, my teachers, the school principal, and even my doctors turned against me. It actually happens. I have felt my mother's fists hitting my back hard enough, as a two-year-old child, that I have no idea why I am still alive. It is why I even begin to actually believe that someone really is that evil, because maybe he is. Maybe my "psychotic" fantasies about some people are absolutely true. I've seen every bit of evidence that they are true, more than enough to convince a fair judge or jury, so I might just have a case.

 

[MetaKron]

Ok try this:

"Psychosis is a rational outcome that appears irrational due to our ignorance of it's causality"

"Psychosis is a rational outcome due to the extreme pressures of unknown origin placed on a person"
"Psychosis is no longer deemed as psychosis once the unknown causality and pressures have been rationalised"

"Psychosis is in itself a statement of ignorance"

"The use of the word psychosis is a statement of our ignorance"

"Psychosis is the denial of reality"

"Psychosis is aberant thought or behaviour that is subjectively determined as psychosis by those not knowing the cause of that behaviour"

Any points you would care to discuss??

QQ, the people who are involved have a real stake in this, that I'm not sure that even you understand. We've had our lives turned inside out, our bodies and minds chemically poisoned, and we've been treated as dangerously diseased when in fact "society" has placed our lives in mortal danger because "society" is completely and totally insane.