OOK, Now i'm confused, did Atlantis existed?

Discussion in 'History' started by Shadow1, May 18, 2010.

  1. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    of course there must be facts
    the only question is who to believe what they are
    :shrug:
     
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  3. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Why "of course"?
    I'll ask again: what facts are there behind Middle Earth? Or Oz?
    Aren't people capable of making things up?

    It's the assumption (that you have also made) that there must be facts behind stories and myths.
     
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  5. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    then there's your facts ...or to take things to another level, you could look at the "actual" things that influenced people to create fictions like that

    even if they are stories, there are facts in that influence the author (you might even call it "intellectual copyright")
     
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  7. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Hence my repeated question "what facts?".

    The main facts being "hobbits don't exist" etc...
     
  8. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    16,330
    hence my repeated, "depends what you would have us believe ...."


    that says absolutely nothing about the "facts" behind them
     
  9. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    18,754
    Obfuscation for the sake of it: no one has yet presented anything as a fact, let alone asked us to choose whether or not to believe them.

    Still wrong: did hodbits actually exist or are they a fiction?
     
  10. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    when all else fails, try wiki
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Location_hypotheses_of_Atlantis


    thats a question best answered by looking at the facts behind them (link provided in previous post)
     
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    18,754
    I read it: not single mention of Zeus OR Medusa.

    Also wrong: that gives the facts behind his his invention of the story. not facts for the existence of hobbits.
     
  12. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    16,330
    my bad
    thought the subject had gone back to atlantis
    anyway, you can find similar pages about zeus and/or medusa on wiki too (the great reservoir of contention that it is)


    actually if you look at the link it refers to the title being derivative of an old english for "hole dweller", which certainly were factual, although I guess the issue ultimately rests on if one would have one believe positions such as this
     
  13. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    18,754
    So you did miss the point.
    And we're back to: there appears to be no factual basis for the stories.

    Oh, I guess you missed this bit:
    Or this from your latest link:
    And again, that would be people not hobbits...
     
  14. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    16,330
    well sure, according to who you would have us believe

    not sure what you are suggesting I missed since the whole article is about influences that contributed to the narrative


    which then would be the "facts" (according to certain people we are led to believe) behind hobbits, yes?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2010
  15. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    18,754
    So there claims that there actually existed people with snakes for hair and whose gaze could turn you to stone?
    Interesting.

    The fact that "hole dweller" was an invented etymology. I.e. that isn't a fact either.

    No: Tolkien made up the "facts" and admitted they are inventions NOT facts.
     
  16. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    16,330
    not necessarily, but there is a broad category of literature (that isn't necessarily fictional) about other human civilization/aliens etc



    which, once again, says absolutely nothing about whatever (factual) experiences he had that influenced his story telling ideas
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2010
  17. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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    4,160
    .

    i don't know, maybe since with their phylosophy, they thoght it must be there many gods for all the compicated things, also, maybe it had something to do with a king, or a lightning storm, people can get creative,

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    there was a myth, it's like that:
    a guy, was hundsome, was always looking at himslef in the water, all the time, and he loved his face, so when he dided near the lacke, there was the orchids, so they said that their god transformed him into orchid, cause that orchid is always, is liek it's looking at it's self in water, cause it's always facing the water, like a person looking at himself,

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    we just studied about it in the arabic class, (for a writer tawfik alhakim)
     
  18. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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    wow Dywyddyr, take it easy dude, are you angry or something?
     
  19. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think we can say as yet that there was an Atlantis, but it seems possible that the myth is based on a real event. I am sure the whole notion that it was a lost paradise is exaggerated. In the past, being accurate was not a virtue in storytelling.
     
  20. draqon Banned Banned

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    yeah but a concept like Atlantis had to come from something, same as a concept of dragons that shows up in most myths on every continent of Earth
    Norwey dragon:
    http://www.odinsvolk.ca/dragon.htm
    Chinese dragon:
    http://djtravel.homestead.com/Souvenirs.html
    Mayan dragon:
    http://pictures.linkmesh.com/dragons/maya_dragons.php
    Egyptian dragon:
    http://dragons.wikia.com/wiki/African_Dragon
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2010
  21. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    18,754
    And it could have simply come from human imagination.That's the point I'm trying (and obviously failing) to make.
    Was Utopia based on a real place that operated like that? Or was it more a mix of imagination and extrapolation?
     
  22. draqon Banned Banned

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    35,006
    yes Utopia was based on an actual place!
    Refer to Bible mentioning the now gone place of garden of Eden between Tigris river and Euphrates river.

    A concept as powerful as this could not come have come just imagination, there must have been some sort of material/factual event/location.
     
  23. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    18,754
    No it wasn't.
    And the Garden of Eden is also a myth (and hardly constitutes Utopia since there's not much of a "society" with only two people).

    What evidence do you have for that supposition?
    Oh wait, the same evidence you have for god being real: i.e. he must be real because we couldn't have just imagined him.
    Does the same apply to Lord of the Rings? All of science fiction?
     

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