# Jupiter's Orbital Velocity & Equatorial Velocity cancel?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by nebel, Jul 31, 2017.

1. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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July 27, 2018 (for what it's worth), we earthlings seeing the eclipse would be in the zero velocity zone of the full moon (in position below point #5 in sketch above). The moon is not in null area of Earth but we are in the Moon's. Mars too is close in line with the Sun/Earth axis, but Venus, it's zero velocity partner is off line, as is shown accidentally in the above rendering. (If anybody thinks it sound like astrology, it is not, it is based on 3 strictly physically measurable numbers: Size of body, orbital velocity and rotation velocity, ) but
Real meaning , if any is yet to be determined.

James RJust this guy, you know?Staff Member
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I don't really see why this fact would be important. All it says is that at any instant a point on the equator of the planet, on the imaginary line joining the Sun to the planet, is approximately at rest as viewed from the Sun.--"

Nebel: I am using this JamesR observation to explain why the alignment Moon/Earth /Sun is important, as it is in the Jupiter /equator /Noon/Sun lineup in the OP, that expanded to Saturn and then to the null points nine.

Last edited: Jun 25, 2018

3. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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The position is even more precarious with Uranus, where only at certain times, not continuously, consistently like at Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune the alignments give Zero Velocity Areas, but for what it's worth, here are the Uranus data
6.8 km/s : 2.6 km/s ~ a 2.6 ratio. x 25 362 km = `66 000 km near the closest moon and the ring system. Another ZVA 99% match. and the
Uranus equatorial rotation velocity squared gives its orbital velocity. 2.6^2 = 6.8 km/s. numerology at it's finest.

5. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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Questions in another language forum have been raised about the meaning of all this. Because
In the cases of Jupiter in the OP, the cancellation was lined up pretty well lined up along the ecliptic plane. Even the following developments, expanding the ZVA effect to Venus, (night side opposing velocities) But now
Uranus (non directional cancellation), and showing the supposed cancellation reaching over long distances, (Venus-Mars), expands the reach of the effect.
Or the Question, will this formula, (Vo:Vr) x Radius = Zero Velocity Area be applicable to Galaxies, Clusters?, not just star systems?
If the ZVA relationship is non-directional, the connection would point to another non-directional concept. "time", that is always seen as normal (right angled) to the 3D space direction. or?

7. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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just a reminder of all you lucky ones that will bei in the viewing area of the great Lunar eclipse in 3 weeks:
You will be in the zero velocity area of the moon during that time, that is, the Moon will appear to have no motion during the line up, or, to be precise, nearer the South Pole, you would be immobile with reference to a point on the moon's equator. You would be in the Moon's ZVA. or ZVZ.
Mar's Zero Velocity Zone, that is shares with Venus, ~ 500 000 km inside the Mars orbit is in close too. look at post 140 please.
Perhaps the cancelling velocities are another window into orbit mechanics, timing.

8. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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writing on another forum, a curious confirmation of the formula (Vo:Ve)x Radius stood out. and of course the relation ship of size and these velocities.
The ZVZ or ZVA of the moon is the Earth, that means as seen from the Earth, the velocities cancel, and they do, the moon does not turn as seen from the Earth, same face with different shades all the time. So: the formula will work everywhere.
There are real ZVZs, but not all are inhabited.

9. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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re: July 27 eclipse. The alignment of Moon, Earth and sunshine is only a local Zero Velocity event, because the Moon at that point is travelling at night with 2 added orbital velocities, which were not combined in the calculations illustrated on post #140. The Earth is in the Zero Velocity Zone of the Moon without considering any other movements, around the Sun, galaxy ---. No wonder the fringes are fuzzy.
A Solar Eclipse on the other hand occurs when, for the 3 Bodies, Earth, Sun and Moon, the Moon really is in a ZeroVelocity Zone with respect to 2 other bodies, the ecliptic field, as is the Equator of Jupiter at noon in the OP.

Last edited: Jul 7, 2018

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12. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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Thanks for brightening up this bleak thread with a picture, sculptor, imagine having to sculpt, carve this in wood.
Does not show the intriguing hexagonal patterns at the poles, nor the bands near the equator, or the rings, where the cancelling of the orbital and rotational velocities occurs.
The Major assertion of the Zero Velocity Zone there predicts that absorption of Solar energy, particles should be most efficient there, creating an additional energy gradient between the noon positions and poles- and sun-up, sundown regions.

well, you are right, this might appear to be "inane" and a monologue, but based on confirmed data, and thankfully allowed by the moderatos,. Kudos to them. time will tell.

13. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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Just putting out a first feeler: Since the formula derived from the Zero Velocity Zones in Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus, Venus, Earth and Moon point to real results, but are pre-Newtonian, do not include G for gravity, but do have t for time, it is time to see where this leads? A link to the 4st or first dimension?

14. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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The OP brought up the illustration of Jupiter rolling along an imaginary road like a ball, a tire, always with zero velocity at the contact area. This is so because the rotational velocity and orbital velocity cancel at midday on the equator.
For the Earth, with 64 times faster orbit movement than rotation, that Zero Velocity Zone contact situation using the formula (Vo:Vr)xR, would occur at the distance of the Moon orbit. But it is not the Moon that fits the picture, because it rotates only once a month, scraping along at 1km /hour and not rotating at 1670 km/hr like the Earth. so,
The calculated value conjures up the picture of a ball bearing, where an Earth size ball rolls along just inside the Moon orbit "ring". No such situation exists of course, but the calculation gives these "friction free" zero velocity zones, relating only to distance and time.
PS:Nature is known for finding the most efficient paths. Do these time/ distance relationships play a role here too?

Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
15. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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Zero velocity connection: as we observe the sunset colours embracing the Moon, a reminder. We are seeng the moon from it's zero velocity distance, (that is why it's face is not changing). The same would be true of Venus' night side, around this time, if we watched it from near Mars.

16. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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Feature New Scientist

25 July 2018
"-- We know almost nothing about Uranus, Neptune,-- the most common objects.--"

but we do know that their equatorial Rotational and Orbital Velocities nearly cancel within range of their rings and inner moons. just saying.

17. ### originIn a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect.Valued Senior Member

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Reported to get this moved out of the science section since it is pseudoscience that is not stimulating any real science content. By my count 24 out of the last 27 posts have been nebel talking to himself.

18. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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We do not know that yet, fact remains, On the sunny or night side, Orbital and Rotational Velocities cancel in interesting places. Zero Velocity Zones, real or virtual.

19. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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Here are the areas where Pluto and Charon would be seen to be in zero velocity zones. Using 17 000km hr as orbital velocities around Sun. 756 km/ hr OV for Charon around barycentre, 90 km/hr OV for Pluto around barycentre , 49 km hr as Rotation velocity of Pluto and 25 km/hr VR for Charon.
For Pluto and Charon the Solar orbit zero velocity zone would be ~ 420 000 km toward the sun. . With a 120 degrees tilt of axis/ equator perhaps not meaningful; but
The orbit and rotation (Vo;Vr)xRadius of the pair around their barycentre, for both yields ~ 2000 km for Pluto and 18 000 km for charon, so:
Pluto and Charon rotate around their Zero Velocity Zone.
The same is ~ true of the of the Earth / Moon system.
for what its worth.

20. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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Doing more pseudo science on the Pluto/ Charon system zero, velocities, sizes:
If you take the rotating velocity of Charon, 25 km/ hour and divide it into the 1700o km/h orbital velocity, you have an ratio of 680. multiplied by its distance to the barycentre, 17 248 km, the projected 0 velocity zone would be at in the 60 000s, a ball park figure for the outer moon Hydra.
Pluto's similar barycentre as radius calculation would yield 83 000 km, beyond the presently known moon system.

21. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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Well here are some more pseudo science numbers.:
All of the four moons of Jupiter that are tidally locked have as their zero velocity zone, where the rotational velocity cancels the orbital velocity at the distance of their orbit radius, back at Jupiter. just giving one example:
Ganymede: given orbit distance : 1 070 400 km. (Vo rbit 39 168 km/hr : Vr otaion 96.17 km/hr) = ratio 401/1 x Radius 2634 km = 1 072 038. Similarly,
Europa , 429/1, Io 229/1 Callisto 777.2/1 all having their radius, rotation point showing as their zero velocity zone. but
That does not address the discovery that the Earth would have the New Moon area, and more interestingly, 95% of the planetary mass would have their zero velocity zone at their midday equators.
original pseudoscience for origin.

22. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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just as a reminder, when watching the meteors, the sliver of the Moon, it is at at area that the Earth/ Moon system has zero velocity with respect to its orbit, it's position in the ecliptic., the Sun.
Like more than 90% of the other planetary mass, Jupiter , Saturn, nearly Uranus and Neptune, there is a zone where velocities cancel, a standstill stands. irrelevant? perhaps, but
During the coming meteors it is near, during an eclipse it is right on.
Pseudo science at it's best.

23. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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here is a very interesting link, illustrating the action at the zero velocity zone, where Orbital and Rotational velocities cancel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycloid
courtesy of MISHA from Heidelberg.
The trajectory shows the pass of one point as it stops, directed at the Sun, so as to pick up its portion, and then hurries away to have double speed at the tio, night, all without actually changing its speed of rotation. In the process it has to sink toward the sun at the bottom, and lift in orbit, because of the doubled speed. Of course all points on the equator take their turn going through this ongoing cycle.
Thank you Mischa.