Jupiter's Orbital Velocity & Equatorial Velocity cancel?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by nebel, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    here is nebel's reply lifted from the alternativee theories forum

    Well, I thought at least you would be prompted to substantiate your perhaps correct answer with some reason, some written refutation. because fact is :
    The band around the equator of Jupiter, and the Ring region of Saturn spend more time in the sunlight, than any other, and it is not because of the angle of incidence only, but because it is at least twice longer in the warming sunshine than the colder night side.
    This is called an alternative theory, I was granted a US patent of a simpler version of this in 1987 by the way, so the examiner agreed that at least as a theory it has merit, but it actually works, carries a name (not mine) and can be looked up on Wiki.
    The alternate, but perhaps incorrect alternate theory here is, that
    The rings of Saturn, the bands on Jupiter are in a small way triggered or influenced by the enhanced, prolonged exposure at the equator region.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    I'm afraid I wrote you off as an obsessional numerologist nutcase many months ago. You will have to find someone more gullible, or at least patient, if you want to discuss your ridiculous and tedious ideas. The time has now come to cut you out of the circuit.

    ...[click]....
     
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  5. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    As I said, I hoped you would --, rather than be engaging in un-called-for and off-topic amateur psychiatry (on me) , -- practise amateur astrophysics. Numbers are always a good starting point in alternate theories. so, why be afraid? and
    These counter movements drag the equator exposure back, to grab more, just like a tire lingers longer on the road than the car, or the tire's top part in the fender.
    Talking of numbers,
    You can read the numbers on the tire as it comes to a standstill on the road, while the car whizzes by. therefor:
    There is enhanced, prolonged absorption from the road, or whatever the Sun has to offer to Jupiter, Saturn and all of us, even if
    it is only an alternative, not yet mainstream theory.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
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  7. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  8. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    Dear Origin:
    Original, and possibly Cosmic. Take the formula that evolved as a result of the long discussion : (V 0rbit : V rotation) X diameter of central body. plug in the Solar data:
    Orbital velocity of Sun in Milky Way: ~ 220 m/s : Rotation velocity of Sun ~ 2m/s = a ratio of ~ 110/1. multiply by solar diameter ~ 1 300 000 km = 150 000 000 km aka 1 AU, Earth orbit semi major axis.
    You read it here first, on:
    Pseudo Science, sciforums.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  9. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    Janus, we never had a link to that illustration of yours.
    but here is a situation where a body is always in a zero velocity zone situation, because there is no central body to require orientation.
    The Star Sirius A.
    Putting it's data into the (Ov: Rv) x radius, or diameter formula: Orbital velocity: 13 815 km/h : Rotational velocity 57 600 km/h = .24, of the radius, which means that the Star on its orbit around the barycentre of the Sirius system always travels in its zero velocity zone. The 2 velocities cancel ~ a quarter inside of Sirius A, closer than either Jupiter or Saturn.
    Sirius orbiting like a YoYo. spinning faster than it revolves.
    Now, if we had the orbital velocity inside the Milky way of A&B Sirius , we could get serious. We did for the Sun, see above.
     
  10. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180905155444.htm>.

    Just posting this item to show how great the influence of solar radiation is n the atmosphere of saturn, and the Zero velocity situation favours absorption in one region, near the equator over the other. The Hex shape could be a resonance during the short Saturn day.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  11. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180920160910.htm>.
    Equators of Sun-like stars rotate up to two and a half times as fast as higher latitudes
    Putting this extended range range of rotational velocities, into the hypothesis' (Vo:Vr) x R formula, would broaden the area where the zero velocity or velocity match occurs. also as an aside:
    In the prograde Sun, planet situation, the Sun looks, as far as the rotation direction is concerned, as the nigh time of an inner planet. (except venus of course)
     
  12. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    For what it is worth: re: Ryugu, the asteroid right now visited by two hopping Japanese landers. Given the low gravity of the ~1km wide body, it's gravitational influence would not reach far, but if the formula (Vo:Vr) x R , that worked so well, in all the massive bodies cited, ( as in post# 140) were applied, a feature should be present between 144 455 km up toward Earth during perihelion and 100 681 km up away* from Mars* during Ryuku's Aphelion.
    By comparison, the closest approach possible to either Mars or Earth is ~ 5 200 000 km.
    ** Using the Mars perihelion as meeting point.
    If Ryugu "rolled" through space as Jupiter does, it's zero velocity "touch" zone would be at those distances, away from the sun, because of it's retrograde rotation it shares with Venus.
    V orbit~ 82 800 km/ h - 118 800 km/h. Radius .5 km V rotation ~ .4112 kmh.
    Ps : the same values are applying to the other famous 7-8 hrs rotator: Oumuamua.
    ~10o 000 to 120 000 km. nothing there where it is now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  13. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    It is about the same worth as a cat turd.
    Numerology is quite simply junk. You can fiddle around with numbers and come up with whatever you want - it is completely meaningless.
     
  14. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Post 162 refers.
     
  15. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    yea, do not underestimate numbers. Like solving the Riemann paradox. Anyway, there is a pattern to this, and we might yet get to a surprising bottom of it. It might yet get worse for all it's worth.
    working the numbers beats armchair Psychiatry every time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  16. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    For the record: Post# 140 gives the reach of the zero velocity zones of the major bodies in the Solarsystem. #165 Sol in the galaxy, #166 the star Sirius there, For the record : here are the figures for some Asteroids :
    1 Ceres Vo 17.9 km/s : Vr .09261 km/s = ratio 193.28 x radius 482.5 = 93 257.6 km
    Pallas: 75 30n7km; Vesta: 59 515 km; Juno: 90 356 km; 5 Astraea: 240539; 6 Hebe: 86 621 km; 7 Iris: 91 181 km; 9 Meti : 47 434; 10 Hygiea: 260 480 km; Hector: 54 320 km; Hilda: 51 573; Ida: 40 171 km to 53 058 km, ( Moon Dactyl only 90 km away).
    compare Oumuamua: ~ 110 000km. so:
    it appears that the ratio of Orbital velocities, Rotational velocities and radius or potential Zero velocity Zones relates to the distance between asteroid orbits, which is pegged at ~ 100 000 km average. Perhaps smaller numbers found in the 50 000 km range relate to more crowded neighbourhoods , like Hector and other Trojans.
    Asteroid Ida's moon Dactyl , according to this hypothesis, is not tidally locked, unlike Charon and Pluto and Luna and Earth, which are in each other's potential Zero Gravity Zones.
     
  17. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    Here, looking at the above numbers, Note. Hector the Trojan, in Jupiter orbit. The asteroid's ZVZ zone 54 320 km, within 5% of Jupiter's equalized, cancelled Orbital & Rotational velocities, near the 57 000 km radius.
    To use the previous analogy of a rolling tire, hitting the road at Zero velocity, Jupiter and hector doing it nearly at the same pace, as you would expect on the dame orbit.
    Thoughts on an alternative theory., hypothesis.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  18. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    Meaningless numerology.
     
  19. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    The Concept of opposing orbital and rotational velocity introduced the existence of various Zero Velocity Zones. a) internally ( Saturn, Sirius) b) externally, ( Venus, Earth/Moon--). based on velocities in rotations. (Orbits also are rotational)
    Zero velocity Zones as such are not a new concept. see:
    "An astronomical body's Hill sphere is the region in which it dominates the attraction of satellites. The outer shell of that region constitutes a zero-velocity surface " from Wikipedia "Hill sphere" and
    " The zero-velocity surface is a concept that relates to the N-body problem of gravity. It represents a surface a body of given energy cannot cross, since it would have zero velocity on the surface--". from Wikipedia " zero velocity surface" so:
    The zero velocity zone not based solely on gravity, but on velocities in the present alternate hypothesis has introduces another, second, proven
    Zero Velocity sphere or Zone.
     
  20. nebel Valued Senior Member

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  21. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    Just a reminder, that a couple of days ago. on ~ 10, 18, 2o18, it was 2000 days to the next North American total solar eclipse, and at that point our stares, instruments will focuses on an area which is at rest in the Solar System Field, where the Earth's rotational velocity and the orbital velocity of the Earth/Moon system cancel. Added: to explain,
    A radar or laser beam's photon, focussed for some good reason at the Moon, would, when striking its target, be at a point where it , the photon, has ~no lateral, orbital velocity with respect to the Sun, the ecliptic's field. ( because it carries the Earth's angular momentum, but amplified through distance. )
    see page# 7, posts#130, #139,#140,
    famous last words:
    "I don't really see why this fact would be important."
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  22. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    So, a laser pointing straight up from the moon will always be tracking the Earth, confirming in this case the validity of the above equation, and marking where the moon has its zero velocity zone. ( not stationary with respect to the Sun.
    On the other hand,
    A vertical Laser near our equator that would leave a spot moving on the Moon's dark side during an eclipse, marks the area where the Earth's forward orbital velocity and its backward rotational velocity cancel.
    Only on the great planetary masses, or Sirius do these zero velocity areas occur within or really near the bodies.
    famous last words.
     
  23. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    Am I reading this correctly?
    Is it your contention that for a rotating sphere, one side of the sphere rotates at twice the speed as the other side?
    If that is truly your contention then it begs the question, have you received a severe blow to your head recently?

    Let's try a thought experiment (or gherkinfucker), imagine a satellite that stays in orbit directly between the Sun and Jupiter, plus another satellite that stays in orbit on the other side of Jupiter in a line with the sun and Jupiter. Hopefully that makes sense, 2 satellites on opposite sides of Jupiter on a line drawn through Jupiter from the sun that remain in that position as Jupiter orbits the Sun. Lets put a beacon on Jupiter that rotates with Jupiter.
    If we measured the speed of the beacon as it revolves around Jupiter, is it your contention that we would measure a speed that was twice as fast on the night side as the day side? Do you see a problem with this?
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018

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