Jupiter's Orbital Velocity & Equatorial Velocity cancel?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by nebel, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. nebel

    Without having to choose between the theories accounting for the formation of the Earth/Moon system, it's long term stability, based on the gravity /energy balance, is enough to allow life to flourish and evolve.
    Obviously, Gravity in our system works just fine. The present theory is about spin and orbits, and gravity dominates both.

    The OP's alternative theory proposition pointed to the possible local effects of the outer gas giants of having sections with zero orbital velocity and later o double orbital speed . but

    Applying the formula (Vo ; Vr) xR to the inner planets showed another intriguing connection in rotation, orbital, distance relationships.

    The moon pivots around the earth so to speak, showing the same face all the time. but more surprising,
    the Earth too, rotates in such a way that it would pivot at the Moon 's distance as seen during a new Moon, an eclipse.

    To come back to the wheel analogy, at present, the Earth rotates as if it "rolls" when considered fixed on an imaginary dik, with radius of 400 000 km , the distance to the moon.
    gravity has done it.
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  3. nebel

    here is a reminder, that the 2 most massive bodies in the Solar system are interacting through their rotation, revolution, not just gravity, with deep consequences

    University of Leicester. "Juno peers deep into Jupiter’s colorful belts and zones." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 28 October 2021. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/10/211028153800.htm>.

    Jupiter's equatorial orbital velocity around the Sun at noon is 80% less than in the center, or 2.5 hours earlier or later, (sunup and sunset) and is 16 km/ sec at midnight., while maintaining a steady rotation of 10 km. /sec. it has a curate cycloid motion,
    maintaining a gradient to the center, depth and the poles.
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    I believe it is called a "curtate cycloid motion"?

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  7. nebel

    W4Y thank you, you are absolutely right, I meant curtate, after having curated the data :

    Jupiter (Vo : Vr) x R 13.07 : 12.6 = 1.o 73 x 70 000 km~ 72 611 km, therefore
    In your diagram, the red circle, which has zero velocity as it touches the x axis, is 2 611 km above Jupiter's the equator.
    At noon all points on the equator, your green circle (distances not to scale) reach only 1.3 km/sec prograde motion on the cusp of the cycloid.
    If you compare the speed in which a point on the trajectory traverses 2 squares on your grid, at noon, the cusp, and at midnight,
    the flat of the long top, you can see how long the equator lingers in the sunshine, nearly at standstill,

    In commenting on the in depth research of "Juno", Leicester Uni , I pointed out, that all points on the central plain, defined by sunup. center of mass, sundown and poles, remain at orbital speed of 13,7 km/sec, whereas the equator experiences a ~ 13 km/sec difference every 5 hours, and a gradient of sorts to all the areas at constant orbital velocity.
    The depth of the measured turbulence could in part be the result of these differences, the gradients between changing noon/midnight equator Vos and the steady center of mass Vo of 13. o7 km/sec .
    You do not mess with your orbital speeds, that sustain you, without consequences.
  8. river

    How did Earth capture the moon , gravity can't do it .
  9. nebel

    nobody on this thread suggested that the moon was captured, lassoed in, reeled in.
    To the contrary, the fact that the zero velocity radius derived from the formula (Vo : Vr) x R is the same for Moon and Earth suggests a common origin.
  10. river

    What common origin ?
  11. nebel

    It would mean that material that finally ended up in our dual Moon/Earth pair was linked together locally by similar velocities in the contracting disk of mass.
    but that is just part of this alternative theory.
    In contrast, is the result for Venus in the (Vo : Vr) x R formula, that gives a huge range, all the way to the inside*** of the Mars orbit, and a "rim" travelling at 70 km/sec near the sun, in the abstract "friction less" zero velocity zone.
    1: ~20 000 for Venus, compared to 1: 64 ; 1:220 for Earth, Moon.
    Although common sense calls for Venus and Earth to be twin sisters, the rotation story says differently.
    It is the Earth Moon that is the true pair: La terre / la Lune, -- die Erde / der Mond.

    *** because the abstract zero contact "wheel" moves inside the orbit line, not outside, as in all other planets., like the wheels of these bikes in a drum. from post #212 page #11

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    Last edited: Nov 9, 2021
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    AFAIK the moon used to be part of earth that was ejected when Theia crashed into Earth.

    Theia (planet)

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    An artist's depiction of the hypothetical impact of a planet like Theia and the Earth
  13. nebel


    without turning this thread about the ratios of Orbital and Rotational velocities into an "origin of the Moons" topic, a Trojan collision would be of low speed, and confirm the common local origin. on the other hand, The Impactor coming from greater heights would leave the local mass in a mess, requiring the reorganising to the 64: 220 ratio we see now, the same zero velocity distance. ~385 000 km. from the (Vo xVr ) x R formula.

    But , referring to post #348, it is perhaps far fetched in this alternative theory to call

    Mars as a moon of Venus
    , not mutually gravitational rotation bound. but in origin, a conclusion is what the numbers could lead to.
  14. river

    Why would the disk of mass be contracting ?
  15. nebel

    Gravity acts on all matter. A denser area can establish itself through a standing wave, or an irregularity . Once there is a distinct "cloud" or central mass "seed" , the self gravitation will create an entity; Only sufficient energy, orbital velocity will establish orbiting bodies at certain heights above the center**.
    It is the proposition of the "Star vibrate like their planets orbit" or vise versa thread , that the spacings of these orbits relate to the harmonic pulsations of the system, - in wavelengths via "c"- , particularly of the central mass, the star.
    ** inside the sun. it is radiation pressure that helps to keeps the surface compressing all the way to the center.
    Here we are discussing the uncanny connection between orbital velocity, spin and cycloid motion radius. . ( Vo;Vr) x R.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  16. river

    Depends on the Density . And the distance apart . The greater the distance the less gravity . The further out you go the less gravity really matters .
  17. nebel

    J. Kepler was the first one to put that now trivial truth into formulae, equations that accurately quantify that fact.
    His second law describes an abstract triangular area that relates the orbit radius with the Vo of the orbiting body.

    The present Formula of this thread's alternative theory, , ( Vo : Vr ) x R, describes an abstract circular area, where the rotating body would move with zero friction.

    note that they both have Area, Vo and orbit radius in common.
    what is novel here, is the introduction of the rotation, spin of the body. Kepler would have loved to have that in Tycho Brahe's data that he used, so,

    The formula (Vo:Vr)xR adds a new spin to the Keplerian area law. If you are lucky enough to see the reddening moon tonight, think that, -

    if mounted on a disk, it would roll around you. At a solar eclipse, you would rotate on an imaginary disk that touches the moon, always on an Kepler triangle.
  18. nebel

    to add to that: as quoted from CBC news:
    "--there is actually a connection between the two types of eclipses: A solar eclipse always precedes or follows a lunar eclipse by two weeks.
    "You always have a full moon and a new moon during an eclipse season, and in the full moon you will have a lunar eclipse, and during the new moon you will have a solar eclipse," he said.
    But the upcoming solar eclipse on Dec. 4 will be visible only in Antarctica.--'

    This strengthens the argument that the formula {Vo:Vr)xR that gives the same result for Moon and Earth . namely the Earth to Moon distance size of their zer velocity disk, should see such reciprocal results.
    river likes this.
  19. nebel

    someone bright suggested that these embodiments of right ratios could be visualized as model planets, moons as sitting on an imaginary vinyl records , rolling along a wall. so new terms was coined:

    planets on a platter.
    right size, rolling at the right speed, to give the right (or left) rotation. all through (Vo:Vr)xR

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