Is Abortion Murder?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Bowser, Aug 22, 2015.

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I Believe Abortion Is...

  1. Murder

    5 vote(s)
    14.7%
  2. A Woman's Choice

    25 vote(s)
    73.5%
  3. A Crude Form of Birth Control

    6 vote(s)
    17.6%
  4. Unfortunate but Often Necessary

    18 vote(s)
    52.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,828
    When did I state that? If anything, I've been arguing for the preservation of life. I have no respect for a woman who willingly kills her child. I believe it to be murder, as I've already stated.
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,426
    tali89:

    Talking to you is like talking to a petulant child who is having a temper tantrum. I'll try to keep this brief by ignoring a few of your more ridiculous attempts at provocation.

    Nobody deserves to have your whingy whining cluttering up their thread, not even Bowser.

    Myself and others have already explained that to you patiently, several times. You don't want to learn, and you're frankly not worth wasting more time on.

    So let me get this straight. In a thread on abortion, that you chose to post in, it's "not the way it works" for you to post your views on abortion. What are you here for, then? Not for discussing the topic - that much is clear.

    Look at what I asked you: are you in favor of coercing women to either have an abortion or not to have one, or are you against all coercion?

    Are you capable of making your own position clear, or is that "not how it works"?

    If you were to answer this simple question, you wouldn't have to demand that I support my assertions about your position. I'm asking you directly what your position is. It couldn't be more straightforward than that.

    Do you have a position on the thread topic, or are you just in this thread to troll myself and other members?

    I think you've constructed a fantasyland for yourself concerning what my "particular worldview" might be like. I took you to task earlier in this thread when you made the claim that "liberals tend to raise degenerates". Now, I know you meant that as a personal attack on me, but that's water off a duck's back - I expect incoherent rage from you as a matter of course, and I know you can't help lashing at people when you're having one of your tantrums. The reason I picked you up on that claim is that you made a broad statement stereotyping a group of people, without providing a skerrick of evidence in support of your claim which, as it happens, is a breach of our site rules.

    Do you despise people who work in government jobs or academia, tali89? Why is that? Were you turned down for a government job, or did you fail at university or something? Do you regard conservatives who are in government with the same hatred as you regard liberals, or is it ok for conservatives to be self-important, intelligent and educated? Do you have issues with being educated, tali89?

    And you obviously can't, because...

    No surprises there.

    No, you misunderstand. When a child throws a tantrum, an adult can get exasperated after a while. The child is irrational. The adult wishes the child would see reason rather than continuing to scream and shout pointlessly.

    Yes. And you can be sure I'll be directing people to it every time you start another hypocritical thread on a topic relating to "men's rights". There really couldn't be a much clearer demonstration of your double standards - and in your own words, no less.

    You try to make it sound like you didn't simply run away from that thread in embarrassment, but that's a little act for the benefit of other readers, not for me. So nice of you to give me the last word, tali89! Hehe.

    And why is it that your chain is so ripe for the yanking regarding that thread, tali89? It's the embarrassment you caused yourself, isn't it?

    Really, who cares whether I demanded to know your identity or not? It would be a silly demand, as I pointed out, so it likely didn't happen. I suspect you're probably taking some statement I made out of context, but we'll never know.

    The fact is, I know exactly who you are, despite your desperate attempts to hide behind proxied IP addresses and a string of lies. So, at this point in time, there's absolutely no need for me to demand anything about your identity.

    Learning a word is half the battle, tali89. You also have to understand what it really means, and you're very far from that when it comes to the word "integrity". More on that below.

    I own the copyright to my posts on this forum, and to any private messages I have sent to you. If you post anything I have written here, whether in a private message or on the public forums, to any other place on the internet without my permission, you might well find yourself in breach of copyright laws. Those laws apply outside this forum.

    You have your own site, do you? I'm sure it's as wonderful as you are. Got a link you want to share with your readers?

    I do not recall any such posting of your IP address. I would be happy to remove it and take appropriate administrative action if it still exists on our public forums. Please send me a link to the relevant post in a private message. I will also take action against Kittamaru in line with our site rules, should your claim turn out to be true. Given that you regularly make claims you can't support, I doubt this one will be any different.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
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  5. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,828
    Do I get to live afterward, or should I just abort?
     
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,426
    (continued...)

    So, let us end with the issue of integrity.

    Let's start by identifying what you didn't reply to in your line-by-line replies to my previous posts:
    You decided not to express your opinion on the thread topic here, despite being given yet another opportunity to do so. See my comments above.

    You did not respond to the specific facts I raised here, but chose instead to bluster around the issue. No integrity.

    In fact, worse that than, you compounded your lie in your most recent post:
    It is established beyond any doubt that I did not enter this thread because of you.

    Your further lie that you didn't say anything provocative is as unsustainable as all of your other lies.

    You completely failed to back up any of your numerous accusations that I have told lies anywhere. You are content to make libellous accusations and then to run away rather than taking responsibility for what you said.

    This was the point I made in my previous post. And here I am, having to make it again because you chose to pretend it never happened. You have no integrity.

    This is the bottom line. The fact that you ignored this further supports my contention that you have no integrity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
  8. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    Who's side are you on? Because it's not the human race or society. Certainly not women. Certainly not children, who are demonstrably better off with legal abortion than without. It's a fake concern you have for life. You just want an excuse to treat half the population as murderers, and therefore under your control. It's the same way blacks and Mexicans are vilified as criminals, the better to keep them down. It's only your life that you care about.
     
  9. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,828
    I value life. I shouldn't need to justify it because its value should be recognized without argument. That's what we're arguing here, the value of human life. And I believe to my very core that everyone participating in this thread values their own life, so much so they wouldn't throw it away--at least not as readily as they would that of a fetus.
     
  10. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    264

    Did you major in drama?


    Yes, we’ve been there, done that, but iceaura said that no agency, significant organization, or large fraction of the population, in our society or any other, has ever treated a 12 week fetus as a person, which is not the case.

    Just face it, Tiassa, you're an extremist.
     
  11. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Until every child is guaranteed a good healthy home , with food , psychology, mentally and sexually, and emotionally. Then abortion should be allowed.
     
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  12. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,828
    But that will never happen, river. Life never will be perfect, which is why life is often a struggle, but it still has immeasurable value. I agree that more resources should be allocated for child welfare. That goes without saying. But we don't just erase life 'til the day is right, because I don't believe that day will ever arrive.
     
  13. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    You value potential life more than actual life, and you are delusional if you think that's ethical. And it's not even a good life you're saving. You want to save a kid to live a crappy life that more likely than not will be a life of poverty and crime. Save your energy and resources for actual born kids.
     
  14. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Agreed bowser

    But that is exactly what a child needs.

    Its not about perfection persay its about the enviroment this child grows up in.

    An unaborted child needs the best enviroment to grow in.
     
  15. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,828
    Again, we disagree. I've known people who were born in poverty with disadvantages in life. We spent some great times together and they were pretty happy to be alive, so your argument that all conditions must be ideal holds no water. Tell me, in this ideal world, what do you consider a "good life"?
     
  16. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,828
    How many of us grew up in the "best environment"? Believe it or not, some kids learn life lessons from their misfortune, becoming better people because of it.
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    Not the woman's. You don't even allow the woman basic self defense.
     
  18. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    0
    True, most don't.

    But abuse of all kinds is the potential problem.
     
  19. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,828
    Basic defense? Against what? Her own child? If it has fangs and claws and threatens to burst through her chest...?
     
  20. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,828
    True. That's where child services enter the picture. I did know a gentleman who was abused terribly by his parents, but the guy himself was an extremely fun person to know. But you are correct, child abuse is a problem that needs to be addressed.
     
  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    A good life is one where people make their own reproductive decisions. This leads to the best outcomes.
     
  22. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    Spare us your naive bullshit. You're making up fairy tales to assuage your own guilt for wanting to abuse women. Preventing abortion is itself abuse of women on a societal level.
     
  23. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,828
    How many pregnancies do you believe are planned? Both my children were "accidents." Yet here they are.
     

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