Atheism & Theism...A Common Denominator

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by PsychoticEpisode, Aug 10, 2009.

  1. earth Registered Senior Member

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    Everybody is entitled to there opinion. I meant to say math develops into concepts. A thought using math to establish a viable reference or foothold. I've learned not to argue just to say I've won.
     
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  3. earth Registered Senior Member

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    As an example of evolution at work. Take the internet and we humans using our thinking skills in making it real. Us having our tool making skills honed.
    How did the Internet start?
    Mention the history of the Internet to a group of people, and chances are someone will make a snarky comment about Al Gore claiming to have invented it. Gore actually said that he "took the initiative in creating the Internet" [source: CNN]. He promoted the Internet's development both as a senator and as vice president of the United States. So how did the Internet really get started? Believe it or not, it all began with a satellite.
    The article continues at .......http://computer.howstuffworks.com/internet-start.htm
     
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  5. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    These ideas contain known things, they are not 100% new. Words like computer, printing press and jet engine are not new. Seeing or hearing is not new, neither is history, inventors, language and words.
     
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  7. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Or, as I said, concepts before the maths.

    Of course you can pick examples to support your point.
    Just as I did with mine.
    And who's Al Gore?

    At some point there were new ideas/ inventions which got refined into those things.

    Words?
    I thought we were talking about the invention (or not) of the objects themselves.

    But again, at some point they were new.
    Even language had to start somewhere.
     
  8. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not doubting that. It's just that I don't think we all of a sudden started writing a dictionary. What are words? They're sounds. Who else makes sounds and were here before us? More than likely our first semblance of a word was a grunting sound, plenty of them in a jungle or bush. Any ape makes emphatic sounds that means something to other apes of their kind. Animals give warning sounds to other animals, and so on and so on. Words evolved like everything else. You're making it sound like the first homo sapiens should have been able to split the atom and tell us all about it.
     
  9. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    Somebody is doing something to you? You think it is God, but He's undefinable?

    Why do you feel this? What is telling you this? If the thing doing this is undefinable then how do you know its God? Have you defined yourself lately?

    Think about it. Don't answer right away. I'm off to the casino for a little fun. Talk later
     
  10. earth Registered Senior Member

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    Here is more about how did the Internet start?

    The Internet has revolutionized the computer and communications world like nothing before. The invention of the telegraph, telephone, radio, and computer set the stage for this unprecedented integration of capabilities. The Internet is at once a world-wide broadcasting capability, a mechanism for information dissemination, and a medium for collaboration and interaction between individuals and their computers without regard for geographic location.
    the article continues at......http://www.isoc.org/internet/history/brief.shtml

    Technology doesn't just spring out of nowhere as Dywyddyr has stated it does.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    You really are stretching the point aren't you?
    I didn't say that.
    The internet is a conglomeration of computers: like I said, you can pick your own examples just as I do.
    But your selections do not invalidate mine.
    The electronic computer was an invention.
    Clothing was an invention.
    The internal combustion engine was an invention...

    Making false claims for me?
    I've already stated that technology both evolves AND can spring from nowhere.
    Just like words. (Although the vast majority of words do have earlier antecedents, it still doesn't stop neologisms).
     
  12. earth Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not stretching the point and you did say spring out of nowhere.

    You're the one who is tossing in comments without much of a reference or link. Just your opinion.

    Back to the basics: everything evolves and science has accepted that as fact.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  13. earth Registered Senior Member

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    1,241
    Main article: History of printing

    Woodblock printing
    Woodblock printing is a technique for printing text, images or patterns that was used widely throughout East Asia. It originated in China in antiquity as a method of printing on textiles and later on paper. As a method of printing on cloth, the earliest surviving examples from China date to before 220, and from Egypt to the 4th century.

    Main article: History of typography in East Asia
    By AD 593, the first printing press was invented in China, and the first printed newspaper, Kaiyuan Za Bao, was available in Beijing in AD 713. It was a woodblock printing. And the Tianemmen scrolls, the earliest known complete woodblock printed book with illustrations, was printed in China in AD 868; it did not supersede the use of block printing.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printing

    Dynastic histories were often written, beginning with Sima Qian's seminal Records of the Historian, which was written from 109 BC to 91 BC. The Tang Dynasty witnessed a poetic flowering, while the Four Great Classical Novels of Chinese literature were written during the Ming and Qing Dynasties. Printmaking in the form of movable type was developed during the Song Dynasty. Academies of scholars sponsored by the empire were formed to comment on the classics in both printed and handwritten form. Royalty frequently participated in these discussions as well. The Song Dynasty was also a period of great scientific literature, and saw the creation of works such as Su Song's Xin Yixiang Fayao and Shen Kuo's Dream Pool Essays. There were also enormous works of historiography and large encyclopedias, such as Sima Guang's Zizhi Tongjian of 1084 AD or the Four Great Books of Song fully compiled and edited by the 11th century.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China

    The Song Dynasty was a ruling dynasty in China between 960 and 1279;
    Social life during the Song was vibrant; social elites gathered to view and trade precious artworks, the populace intermingled at public festivals and private clubs, and cities had lively entertainment quarters. The spread of literature and knowledge was enhanced by the earlier invention of woodblock printing and the 11th-century invention of movable type printing.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_Dynasty

    Writing is a precursor to printing and there wouldn't be printing if writing wasn't first.

    Everything evolves and science has accepted that as fact.

    I think that answers your question: Who'd seen or heard a printing press before Guttenberg started?

    You have tossed in questions and then expect some other person to go do the research. I'm not going to research every question you have asked. I think this will do.

    What you did was try to make a case by asking questions. That tactic is not going to work with me.

    I'm new here and I'll be requiring links from you as a future reference.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  14. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    It's not the word itself but the idea of making new words. When you need a word for something it is possible to make a new one. If you want to call it an invention go ahead. My point is that new words are nothing that hasn't been done before. The idea for a new word is basically borrowed. A word is a word, what else can it be?

    Example: When a word was needed for a 1 followed by 100 zeros some kid blurted out googol. Without prompting, googol would never have come about. The kid did not have the idea for a new word but the guy who asked him did. The idea was old because making new words for things is not new.

    Still would like to hear of something 100% new.
     
  15. noodler Banned Banned

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    751
    Sometimes, although there's nothing "wrong" with it, a visitation or vision can seem very real or "spiritual".

    I once saw, very clearly and in "white, on nothing else" a dead-ringer for JC (the Western Euro version). He looked concerned but very much at peace (perhaps this was the "message", I was projecting "concern" onto the vision, but the dude looked really peaceful and sort of "powerful"). It was just something that "happened" one night before I fell asleep.

    Mind you, another night much the same thing happened, in the same "colorless, but bright" way; except this time it was John, Paul, George and Ringo. (They looked a lot like the first JC guy, you know, Sgt. Pepper and all that - but no colors, just "light").
     
  16. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Double post
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  17. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Learn to read: some technology comes out of nowhere, some doesn't.
    It wasn't a blanket statement like yours.

    Wrong.

    Was the printing press an invention?
    Did it exist before one was built?

    Wrong again.
    I'm not expecting you to do the research, I'm assuming you already know it.

    Also wrong: I'm giving illustrations where your statement fails.
    You're still limiting "invent" to what you want it to mean.

    Doesn't alter the fact that the word itself is invented... It had never existed before it was coined.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  18. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    The shrooms' kicked in?
     
  19. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    Not arguing that. The idea of creating a new word is old. You know of the idea about creating a word before it actually happens. That is my whole point.

    The idea of God is present in everyone except for those who have never been touched by the concept in any form, shape or whatever. Infants I would put in this category as well as any isolated tribes of people who have not come into contact with modern missionaries(I can't stand those guys personally) or anyone carrying the message at any time anywhere. Not sure if anything like that exists today.

    If you see a mystery entity skulking about your house then you would normally call the police. If your mind decides it's God then it didn't arrive at this decision without prior knowledge of God. If you see things happening that are out of the ordinary you cannot connect them to God unless you had a prior knowledge of Him.

    Let's say weird shit happens to someone totally ignorant of God and everything else that entails. What recourse do they have? The mind playing tricks? or There's a legitimate explanation?

    There's two that come to mind. However there is a reluctance to think your own mind may be having problems(mental health issue). Maybe the scientific explanation is too incomprehensible(again the mental aspect).
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  20. earth Registered Senior Member

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    1,241
    Dywyddyr,
    Obviously you didn't understand. Go back and redo your previous posts and provide some links to verfiy your comments.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  21. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Your point?
    I thought your point was that nothing new is ever invented, it just comes from something prior?

    So what?

    Wrong again.
    I suggest you re-read what I wrote.
     
  22. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    It does. Even if man came before the universe or the Earth for that matter and he invented something then could we say things get invented without any prior knowledge? If that were the case then that would be absurd, wouldn't it?

    You can't invent something without a prior idea influencing your inventiveness. That's what I meant when I said you can invent something and then say what its for. Simply impossible. Even theists understand that.

    Just trying to get back on topic.

    People who claim to experience God cannot make this deduction unless they had prior knowledge that a god may exist.
     
  23. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Not quite the same thing as saying "In my mind I couldn't possibly think about something I never experienced or come across through daily life."

    Ah okay.
    That's self-evident to me.
    (For the vast majority of people at least).
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009

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