Americans here is how To Avoid the Draft

Clockwood, my family also has had it's share of men in the military service, and I tried also to join of my own will, but was unable due to physical issues (bad feet, of all things). :(
I don't necessarily support the war, but I won't object to it either. I admittedly do not follow politics, and don't fall on either side of many fences. I may be ignorant in many people's eyes, but it's a decision I have freely made, and consciously do not try to get involved. I want to live my life as best as I can, and that means concentrating on what I can do to make it better, which doesn't include worrying about governmental things that I don't have the time or motivation to change.
Now then, when I see Closet Philospher say
"About one half of americans are against the war and the other half are not intelligent enough to be against the war."
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THAT irritates me to no end. How can you be so egotistical to believe such? Just because someone believes the opposite, that means that they are unintelligent? You need to check your premises.
I would gladly have continued my military service, and I believe that many, many people would benefit greatly from just going through boot camp. The things that it would teach so many people would be phenomenally helpful to life.

my (vaguely on-topic) 2 pence. :bugeye:
 
If I had any children or grandchildren who refused a draft, they would have more to fear from me than they ever would overseas.
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so, we should believe someone who would kill his or her own grand children for not going to war?

basically our system of government is fucked (don’t get me wrong, every other current system is also fucked). our current system will always move corrupt people to the top (to get elected you need money--to get money you need to promise things to people with money--people with money always want more money--the only way for people to get money is to take money from other people). I am convinced Democracy is the best way, but we need some way to guarantee our officials are not out for them selves.

I think we should not have ANY campaign contributions after the primaries (and you cant use the money you get from the primaries to run in the general election). we should have no commercials, and ban 501c3s (and other groups) from running commercials. Then have a series of about 10 of 3 hour long debates, with an 1 hour for the moderators questions, 1 hour for talking about their platform, and one hour for direct questioning of each other.
that is all I can think of at the moment, perhaps we should start a thread on how to fix our democracy.
 
If I had any children or grandchildren who refused a draft, they would have more to fear from me than they ever would overseas.
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I guess it's typical to get people to do what you want out of fear...
 
Personally, I would try to get oout by using that as an excuse. The reason why is I don't like my country enough to go to war and possibly be wounded/killed. America is great, but it's not that important to me. If it didn't work, I would go to jail.
 
Why go to jail if you haven't got to, unless you mean to make a point? Just go find another country and if you want to come back when the war is done or you're too old for the draft.
 
Clockwood said:
Joining the military is a proud tradition of my family that goes back to when we first immegrated to america. We have served in every war since WW1. I tried damn hard to get into the military but was refused because of a few too many physical problems. If I had any children or grandchildren who refused a draft, they would have more to fear from me than they ever would overseas.

And we are not slaves. The key points about a slave is that more is taken from them than is given back, they have no say on anything, and are legally only property. I have a stay in who runs my city, state, and country. I run my own life with a minimum of interference from the government. They give back things no private or corporate entity could give without becoming a government in themselves.
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You say that HERE. Bottom line is that you, despite the rhetoric, obviously have an IQ north of a peanut and CONSEQUENTLY, will baulk if the prospect of any granchild of yours being drafted during a time of war when monthly deaths run into 4 figures.

Oh yeah. You military types or supporters all clamour for one thing, but you quit singing your national anthem when you attend the Superbowl, take your honourary places that are free of charge for 'heroes', and find your mouth can't form the words, for some strange reason after the first stanza, as you look down at your missing legs.

You have to be pretty fucking stupid to enter the military at ANY time, peace or otherwise. It's the employer of 10th choice for the employee of last resort, because you might be forced to fucking KILL someone, or be killed.

What MORON puts himself in that position? I don't see many Harvard grads beating down the recruiters door, do you?.

No. When you enter the military willingly, knowingly and undrafted, you consent to committing state-sponsored Murder on order.

Look up the definition of 'Murder'. You'll see I'm right.

You're not even James fucking Bond...although he and his colleagues are also immoral bastards, at least they get a juicy living from the 'hush' money. No chance of any of them ending up as homeless, finally wrapping themselves in the Stars and Stripes in the freezing back alley of a tenement building, putting the business end of a sawn off in their mouths, the song, "We had joy, we had fun, we had seasons..." playing over and over in their heads as the screaming children run through them at the same time, both sounds stopped, at sweet last, by the squeeze of a trembling finger.

All I can say is this; the class system wins, every time. There will always be an underclass, the lowest of the low, a subgroup of humanity, maybe 5% or so, willing to murder and be killed. Unfortunately, no-one with a heart or a decent brain would sign up to protect us from those without them; so who does that leave?

Yep. The heartless...the blindly patriotic...and the downright bloodthirsty. Well...they have to be good for something.

:)


Jaybee.
 
Clockwood, you still have not posted your "personal" reasons for thinking the war is good. You probably have no good reasons.

Nice, Jaybee.
 
listen, you have no rights in the constitution unless your state abides by them
or makes them the law
 
Clockwood said:
I tried damn hard to get into the military but was refused because of a few too many physical problems.
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Priceless! You expect others to do something which you are incapable of! You have an excuse not to be in the army. Other people have reasons, not excuses. Not wanting to be part of an atrocity is a good reason.

I doubt your offspring would be scared of you, if they dodged the draft, I mean, what threat could someone unfit for military service pose to them? After all, sounds like you aren't even fit enough to stir chili for the army.
 
A limp from a damaged tendon, poor vision, and slightly scarred lungs. That, and I am way past my prime. This precludes any military jobs that I would fight to get into. And ys, I expect people to do the things I can't. I couldn't be a fireman and I doubt many of you could either but you all bet we want someone to pull us out of a blazing inferno.

And they wouldn't have to fear me physically. They would, however, be blackbooked and treated like they had the plague. They would face nothing but scorn from much of their family, never recieving a wedding or funeral invitation. For all intents and purposes they would be dead to me. They would be dishonored and forgotten by those faces that matter most.
 
I think your intentions are good, Clockwood. But what makes you think the Iraqis need us more than.. say..The Sudanese?
 
I don't. If I had a choice, Sudan would have been at the head of the line while Iraq would sit halfway down it. I have to take what I can get as some actions aren't feasable under current political or material conditions. Its better Iraq than just staying at home while the whole world rots.
 
I couldn't be a fireman and I doubt many of you could either but you all bet we want someone to pull us out of a blazing inferno.
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Even if it's a fire of your own making? A fire that you feel is right and proper? A fire that you don't want to pulled out of?

You see. Those who you are disparaging. Those who will not submit to being made cogs in some faceless machine of statistic brutality. They may be those firemen that will pull you from that fire someday. And I don't think you will thank them for their assistance. Their task is a thankless one. But it is a task that must be performed.

You're an arsonist and need to be saved from yourself.
 
Clockwood,
I would willingly defend America. But getting shot in a police action? No thanks. It's not America's place to play world cop. We aren't even that good at it.

ALL governments are based on it. Only in democracy you get to pick your lord... thus he has to do his best to keep at least the majority of the people happy. If the majority don't want him, he is gone.
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I can only think of one nationally elected representative– the president. And the president isn't that powerful. He controls maybe 1/3 of America, and right now, represents less than 51% of the voters. Hardly a mandate.
We elect 100 senators and 200 or 300 members of the house? All of them represent minority fractions of the US. Take Senator Ted Stevens (AK, R) for instance. He's a Conservative, yet has created one of America's largest welfare states by funneling millions in federal tax dollars to build infrastructure in Alaska. He stands up for Alaska's interests, despite his party's rhetoric, and despite what 51% of voters chose.

You seem to be a proponent of 'nation building' (which is ironically more Clintonian than Bush), yet I think America is completely unsuited for it. Nation building would serve two purposes, either to secure America's material interests (like Germany's Second Reich), or secure America's moral and cultural interests (like the Crusades). But Americans are too diversified in politics and beliefs to create the type of unity to take over the world.

Topically, democracy requires a middle class to work. It requires a relatively educated populace.. China is headed towards democracy because it has all these things. Sudan can never become a functioning democracy, regardless of how many people we kill there, until it develops a middle class.

America is simply unequipped to play world cop. We are too squeamish to institute a system that would let us crush opposition, while protecting ourselves from terrorism and espionage.

America should stop trying to play the noble good guy, when no one wants us around, and we should stop playing the tough guy, when so many Americans hate to see ours in body bags or burning children. Until we are ready accept the realities of war, and the loss of civil liberties that goes with it, we should pursue a more ‘hands off’ approach to foreign affairs.
 
Clockwood said:
A limp from a damaged tendon, poor vision, and slightly scarred lungs. That, and I am way past my prime.
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But you work in a related support field, right? IT, Communications, logistics, catering, you do something to support the military you love?

I couldn't be a fireman and I doubt many of you could either but you all bet we want someone to pull us out of a blazing inferno.
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Firemen aren't drafted. Firemen don't get suicide bombers trying to kill them while they are having lunch. See how bad an analogy you made?

And they wouldn't have to fear me physically. They would, however, be blackbooked and treated like they had the plague. They would face nothing but scorn from much of their family, never recieving a wedding or funeral invitation. For all intents and purposes they would be dead to me. They would be dishonored and forgotten by those faces that matter most.
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Well, they would have their opinions, and you yours, and they might like not hearing yours, and being ignored. Rather pathetic that you love some ideal more than the people your ideal is supposed to be about protecting however. I mean, what is the point of it all? If it's not about right or wrong (well, certainly not if you support the action in Iraq!) but just about doing it?
 
The draft is immoral. Need we say more? I guess I would, if I would want such a concept to be elimiated.
 
The United States. Love it or leave it.

Answering the draft is your duty as a citizen. Dodging it merits jail, and so into jail you will go. It's also very un-ninja.
 
our duty as a citizen? Fighting in the military is an option, not an obligation. If one cosiders the causes of the current war to be wrong, they should not have to fight, or in any way support it. If they just don't want to fight, then they can find some alternative means of supporting the country. If they want to fight, they can go enlist.
 
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