Americans here is how To Avoid the Draft

ha ha... i have a heart murmur.

and anyway, its God's fault i was born in amerika, i say draft him mr. president, since you talk with him so much. or does he have immunity, like all others who are in tight with politicians?

 

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i liked iggy pops way out,he just got a hard on and said being around so many men was turning him on.i think i would fight to defend this country but seeing as there is never going to be a was fought for selfless reasons which will require the draft i dont think i'll have to worry about it.so if its not an invasion conscription im investing in viagra.

 

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if we don't agree with what are government has gotten us in to, why should we help them out? i think that you are just one of those war hungry gun nuts.

 

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god forbid that the government officials who get the US into shit go and fight for there country

 

Ah the joys of being a Fag!

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Tho frankly I'd be like Iggy pop just not faking it!

 

If you don't like what the government is doing, you can do one of several things. You can vote. You can run for office. You can start or join a political action group. You can leave the country. You can simply refuse and sit in jail until it is over. You can serve in some way that helps your country but does not violate your beliefs, acting as a medic or cook for heaven's sake.

 

Exactly. The US does SO MUCH for its citezens, and those citezens enjoy freedom not seen in other nations. Anyone who just wants to milk its resources and not face the possibility that they might have to defend those resources, they don't belong here.

If you could never figure out psychology, you have no grounds for saying the propaganda has gotten to someone. Stating that as a fact requires an understanding of human psychology.

If the minority (leftists) is the only one who believes we are being screwed over, is it really considered "screwing over?"

If you will go through the effort of finding little loopholes to avoid fighting, you are very greedy and self-centered. Your country does so much for you, yet you can't repay even a little.

 

So if I get drafted for my country and die fighting a cause I don't believe in, that's just repaying a little, right?

Seems like quite a bit to die for something you don't believe in.

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I get both conservative and liberal news. I also know the facts. Based upon the facts, I formed my opinion. Simple. I see both sides of the story to avoid distortion.

I would serve my country if I believed in the cause for war. In this case, it's obvious that Bush lied to the American public about the "weapons of mass destruction". When they didn't find the fictitious weapons, then he said that the war was for liberating Iraq and that the American public wouldn't understand the real reason for the war. How do you explain this?
I'll say that I am not an American citizen but I get all the networks (FOX, CBS, NBC etc.) I also see the international perspectives (BBC, CBC...). If I only watched the conservative media, I would be led to believe that Iraq had connections with 9/11 which is a falsehood. My point is that you should review your media, because there is propaganda on both sides.
I serve my country. I have a job (which is technically a government job, I get paid big $$$ too). I pay my taxes. I live within the laws. I support businesses in my country. I could be called a model citizen. If my country was going into war for a cause I didn't believe in and I was drafted, I would refuse. The American government lied (and knowingly lied, then admitted it which is far worse) to their people. They took advantage of their emotions about 9/11.

I don't expect people to fully agree with me. I expect people to be reasonable when expressing their opinions. I am an educated adult who discusses and studies world events in depth with others. I spend more hours watching different news programs on TV than anything else. My opinion is based upon my moral beliefs which include A) killing innocent people for no reason is wrong B)lying to a nation to get their support is wrong C) controlling the media wrong. Therefore I don't think people should be forced to go into an illegal war.

The Americans are trillions of dollars in debt because of the cost of war. Imagine how good the American healthcare and education systems would be if if that money was spent on those departments. I don't think your country serves you well at all.

Maybe I should rephrase that sentence you commented about. I can not understand why people suport the war because it is hurtiong your country in many aspects. Your logic is flawed.
I do have an understanding of human psychology. Psychology couses are a requirement for me to get my university degree and I am taking them.
It's simple though, the American media is misleading the masses (or 50% of the country, at least).

 

Clockwood, you are so closed-minded. you seem to think the country is some kind of god to be worshiped and served, do the words "of the people, by the people and for the people mean anything to you?) I love what this country stands for, but I do not love its current government (and I am a republican, go figure).

I would stand up to protect this country, but I must draw the line when we are the ones attacking a country that did absolutely nothing to us. Can anyone give me one good reason why I should die for Iraq?

what are we up to now? like 160 billion on just Iraq? (let alone the near 300 billion in normal military spending per year.) if we had spent just the 160B on fission plants we could have about 40 more than we have now. that is a lot of juice, and at $0.02 per KWH that would make me much fonder of our government than a war for war/revenge/WMDs/instability/oil or whatever reason "we" are fighting this thing.

 

In old feudalist Japan and Europe and elsewhere, there was the term 'Oath of Fealty'. It was a promise those born on the lowest rung of life gave to a landowning noble saying that they would offer him their services in exchange for certain services from him as well as his protection. This system was exploited by many bastards over the years but it is the basis for justabout every modern government. When lords knew they had to work damn hard to keep their job and couldn't just do it with force of arms, as it is in Democratic countries, it seems to work quite well.

We are king of the hill. Our roads are paved. Costs are cheap. Wages are going up. Things are stable. The government doesn't seem to be getting in the way of my day to day life. Heck, they even add in a few bucks to supplement my savings when I get old.

 

Wow. You just gave props to feudalism.
I am... stunned. I suppose you like the caste system of India as well? Everyone knew their place, right? And all was right with the world?

As far as the other arguments you've made. All I can say is that what I 'owe' my country is to ensure that it stays on a proper course of action. And this means not participating in actions that it may become involved in that I don't agree with.

You're acting as though those who are against the war are in the minority. That's a fucking joke. And if the draft were reinstated you'd quickly see how much of a joke. Right now it's a split decision only because the soldiers involved are all volunteers. But if people were forced to go to war, if children were sent to fight right out of high school, giving their lives, giving their health, their mental stability, for this 'war' on terror. You'd see. I guarantee it. And this is why the democrats tried to reinstate the draft. Because they know it too.

The problem is that most Americans don't care to get involved in politics as long as it doesn't touch them. But, with a draft it would touch them plenty. And you'd see that the hawks are a minority.

But a minority of aristocrats, yes? And that makes it all better for you?

 

ALL governments are based on it. Only in democracy you get to pick your lord... thus he has to do his best to keep at least the majority of the people happy. If the majority don't want him, he is gone.

Enough of the public didn't vote against Bush. Therefore he couldn't have made enough of them unhappy enough to go out and vote for Kerry. They either like him or they weren't upset enough to emerge from apathy.

And an aristocrat is fine... as long as they maintain their position only with the voluntary backing of the common man. Everyone in politics has a noose around their necks every minute of every day. If too many people want them gone, they are gone.

And the vast majority of america wouldn't support the draft today and that is why there is no draft. If the conditions change and there is an actual chance of -losing-... they will accept.

 

So basically we can just start imprisoning people who disagree with those in power. That sounds a might Communist, doesn't it?

 

feudalism? democracy? communism?

Okay, let's say there is this "master" and "slave" thing in the Unites States. The "master" makes its slaves pay for basic needs, gives them a mediocre education to grade 12 and forces the nation into an unjust war. The system today is much more complicated and it can't be directly compared. I would gladly run for office but I don't have enough corporate supporters.

Clockwood, I think you would rethink your position if you were eligible for the draft. I would probably be a good candidate if there was a draft here. I am young, educated, in good shape etc. What I would see are many young people's lives disrupted for I cause I don't believe in. If I were forced to go to war, I'd be lazy, unresponsive and just simply hoping that I wouldn't die. That would be because I don't think the cause is right. If the war was for something I believed in, I would be a good soldier. I would have gone off to Afghanistan if there was a draft for that war and I would have at least partially believed in the cause. Of course, we all know that the war in Afghanistan only had a fraction of the total amout of soldiers that are in Iraq. It's obvious what the government's priorities are.
Unfortunately, there would be no way to dodge the draft except going to jail or fleeing the country. Using the 13th Amendment is a good idea, but the USA violated their own constitution all the time and they will probably have a reply to the 13th Amendment.
Anyway, Clockwood, I hope you live well with the illusion that your country serves you well. I would probably be crippled if I lived in your country. My country has payed for several knee operations that I have needed in the past few years. I've been able to see the best specialists in the country and I've never even needed to pay a dime. We don't even need to pay a monthly heath premium. I'm glad I live here and not over there. I visit my family in the USA many times a year. They are considered to be "upper class" (high-paying tech jobs and government jobs). They are worldly people who see the flaws in the system. They even have a hard time coping with the world situation and how their country serves their interests. It's hard to sit back and watch people die. Yes, they voted, some of them even work for the government. America's people really don't have a voice. It really is a "master and slave" thing isn't it?

 

I'm glad there are morons willing to die for me.

As for your grandchildren, I suggest they are the first to get drafted and ventilated.


Jaybee.

 

Joining the military is a proud tradition of my family that goes back to when we first immegrated to america. We have served in every war since WW1. I tried damn hard to get into the military but was refused because of a few too many physical problems. If I had any children or grandchildren who refused a draft, they would have more to fear from me than they ever would overseas.

And we are not slaves. The key points about a slave is that more is taken from them than is given back, they have no say on anything, and are legally only property. I have a stay in who runs my city, state, and country. I run my own life with a minimum of interference from the government. They give back things no private or corporate entity could give without becoming a government in themselves.

 

you act as if we owe politicians something,we pay for them,they have nice lives because we like them.its the same now as it always has been rich and powerful people have disagreements and poor and uneducated people on both sides are sent out to die to see whose opinion prevails.it is retarded,i am frankly suprised people have put up with it for so long.

 

I am not exactly rich now and I was outright poor until I clawed my way out of the gutter. I am supporting this war because of my own personal beliefs and disagreements.

 

Can you share those with us? I posted my reasons wht I disagree with the war. I'll listen.