Everyday sexism

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by James R, Dec 7, 2020.

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  1. wegs

    wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    ha For the record, I'm not lumping you in with Trump!

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    wegs, Dec 30, 2020
    #341

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  3. pluto2

    pluto2 Banned Valued Senior Member

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    I wish I was an attractive lady. My life would have been so much better if i was an attractive young woman. Women have it ten times better and I can prove it. These days if you are attractive young lady you are a winner in life.

    Being an ugly male in this day and age simply sucks.
     
    pluto2, Dec 30, 2020
    #342

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  5. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    But you can grab them by the pussy.

    Maybe even Ivanka.


    Will you fuck off and hide in your hole.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
    Beer w/Straw, Dec 30, 2020
    #343

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  7. billvon

    billvon Valued Senior Member

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    No it wouldn't. You'd be a woman who sits around all day and complains how all men are pigs, you hate them all, all they want is sex, they just use you etc. You'd be as miserable as you are now. Because it's not your face or gender that's making you miserable - it's you.
     
    billvon, Dec 30, 2020
    #344
    origin likes this.
  8. billvon

    billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Huh. I've known a fair number of women who aren't that wonderful. As with . . . everything else, some are awesome, some not so awesome.
     
    billvon, Dec 30, 2020
    #345
  9. Write4U

    Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I'm just a Platonic idealist.....

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    Write4U, Dec 30, 2020
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  10. Write4U

    Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    LOL, you do have a way of making an impactful statement....

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    .....will you be my friend.......

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    Write4U, Dec 30, 2020
    #347
  11. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Well, damn I love myself.
     
    Beer w/Straw, Dec 30, 2020
    #348
    Write4U likes this.
  12. Write4U

    Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    And I am empath.......

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    Write4U, Jan 1, 2021
    #349
  13. Xelasnave.1947

    Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I can't explain this video other than to say that both James and Bells come over as the type the presentor seeks to describe, in fact they both would be hard pressed to say in this case that the stereotype as presented does not fit them to a T.

    I rationalise they are both so bitter because they must realise that they are indeed a minority at odds with what I will loosely call normal people.



    James goes past demanding he is entitled to judge what you think but takes it upon himself to tell a person what they are thinking...if he rubbed shoulders with real people he would not made the disgusting claim that Paddo had something else in mind when he mentioned " lubricating" ... and it is this determination to tell others what they are actually thinking that makes him clearly the object of the presenters description.

    And I like Paddo won't be back ...I only thought about this place when I was watching the YouTube video and as it was so spot on about the type we have in Bells and James I thought everyone should know and they both should be exposed and their evil abuse and bullying put into context....Both Paddo and I made the mistake of thinking we were dealing with rational people just like the video says real people respond to these folk logically not realising they just are not normal....happily as I said both belong to a minority that for the most part are ignored by real people.

    Alex
     
    Xelasnave.1947, Jan 9, 2021
    #350
  14. sculptor

    sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    You will be missed Alex, as will be Paddo
     
    sculptor, Jan 9, 2021
    #351
  15. exchemist

    exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    You must be joking - about Paddo I mean. Alex is fine.
     
    exchemist, Jan 9, 2021
    #352
    origin and dumbest man on earth like this.
  16. wegs

    wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    It’s hard for some to relate to those of us who have been discriminated against due to our gender, or to be treated as “less than” because of our gender. Unfortunately, some of this thread appears to have a lot of “talking past each other” going on.

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    wegs, Jan 9, 2021
    #353
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  17. billvon

    billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed to both.

    It is very hard for people with privilege to talk about it, because they think that if they admit they have that privilege, they think it's like saying "I didn't deserve what I got." And everyone wants to be the underdog hero in their own story, like Luke Skywalker, Tony Stark or Harry Potter. No one would watch a movie where a rich white straight guy with hundreds of millions of dollars starts a company and is successful. But if they came from the wrong side of Philly, are poor and bullied, and they overcome all that and start the same company? People eat that up. Everyone wants to be like the second guy - and so they have to tell themselves a story in which THEY are the under-priviledged or at least have no special benefits that other people don't have.
     
    billvon, Jan 9, 2021
    #354
  18. Xelasnave.1947

    Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Well I am back...I wanted to do an edit last night but my phone went flat..its been non stop rain here and so being on solar running out of power happens...anyways got the genny going so up and running.

    First I wanted to say the reason why I wont be around here is because I am using my time when resting or recovering, whatever you call it, to do stuff like practice my guitars and learn more about microbiology or actually take a nap....and as much as I enjoy chatting here it is really not very productive....in many respects it is a negative experience given the abuse and the bullying....and no one listens..so my point is its not sour grapes I just want to make better use of my time .. certainly because I know that I have made my point.... and I dont hate James or Bells I feel a little sad for them if I must offer an emotion...

    The video was to show how James and Bells are the victims falling for the invented reality that suits the SJW.

    (This is where the phone froze I think so car power and a slide off the track I found some time on my hands)

    I think I am more in touch with the issues they say they are fighting for perhaps because I am totally realistic and not prepared to continue the problems by resorting to additional racism and sexism and I cite the use of white male as evidence of the hatred being perpetuated...and dont act coy it is used mainly in a hateful manner ..

    Moreover the use of abuse and bullying has no justification. Did Ghandi not teach us anything.

    And to Wegs...I say that I have been aware of sexism long before you were born..I grew up in various country towns where in each it was common place for the old man to come home drunk and bash the wife and the kids, ( not mine he was a very kind man) I had a friend who would always stay at our place Friday night the main reason was to not get beaten up..did not save his Mom however..and even if the cop was called. it was..he has had a few he does not mean it approach instead of being wipped as he deserved.. I went into law was to do something to help people..and I did.

    The solution is not to reverse roles so the wife and the kids get to bash the old man...that is how Bells seems to approach the problem and then to say I dont appreciate the reality is wrong..absolutely wrong.

    And to Billvon.
    I moved a lot when young and experienced the bullying of the new kid at school... happily I worked out early to stand up to these people and stop them day one..after my first school and taking it for a couple of weeks before I sorted them out, I knew what would come at the next school so as soon as they threw a punch they got three straight lefts to the nose immediately...the word got around not to mess with me by lunch time ...dont tell me I dont know the hard side of existence or I will bore you with countless stories showing as it is with most people I found doors usually closed not open.

    I had a poor education and everything I have taken on I have been self taught..I taught myself chess and became champion of my school..no coaching from a retired chess champion..I taught myself to paint and won many competitions. . No assistance from any famous artist..The first moto cross race I saw was the one I was in...no one told me to actually watch one before entering...I found a part time job when I was thirteen it was not like my uncle owned the place...have a go mate and you get places.

    The problem is not the inequity in the world it is meeting those inequities with more of the same and to employ hate instead of understanding and kindness.

    ...bullying and abuse and telling folk they have no experience when that is just an uninformed response is immature and certainly fits the video in calling out these indignant folk.

    Still lets go after the old man Paddo as that makes us feel good, let us ignore what he is thinking and tell him what he is thinking ..let us invent the situation he is in and adjust it to suit our vission of reality... really you should be ashamed and above all lets ignore the horrible input by hollywood and the church that just may be why we have a problem...and booze and the ingrained notion that god will fix things...yes its people like paddo ..gather around and lay the boot in..cowards is what you make yourselves.

    So why am I spending all this time now?

    In the hope that the abuse, bullying and the unreasonable judgemental attitudes and mind reading and thought substitution are aired and scorned ..I mean you take the cake when you say "no let me tell you what you are thinking." ..and sadly you have no idea that is so wrong...grow up face the fact you are basically wrong in your approach... after I started this the phone froze so I went off to gather some rocks for a concrete pad I am building...using the car charger to charge the phone ..but the ground was so wet the car side off the track so now I have to wait until the ground dries and I can drive back onto the track...and talk about a privileged person the Sun is out and the weather forecast says no rain until 4 ..thats five hours drying time or its a long walk for a cripple...but I have a stick...thats something.

    Tell me what am I thinking now.

    But please watch the video and declare not to be a victim of the negative mentality that the narrator seeks to address.

    Please carry on.
    Alex
     
    Xelasnave.1947, Jan 10, 2021
    #355
  19. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Alex,

    I am saddened by the fact that you appear to believe that wanting to address everyday sexism is a sort of cult ideology of "wokeness". It seems to me that you have been sucked into a particular internet black hole, such that your perception of reality has become distorted and radicalised.

    My general perception of you is that you have good intentions. However, it now seems that you're only selectively critical of ideologies. If, as seems to be the case, you have bought into the kind of toxic misogyny that the video you posted obscurely advocates, I fear you may be a lost cause. That would be a great pity. Instead of living in the real world, you would be choosing to live in a universe of "alternative facts" and conspiracy theories. That isn't healthy for anybody.

    It seems to be that, inwardly, you know that the path you're currently heading down is the wrong one. I think that, on the one hand, you're deciding to step back from this forum because you feel like you need to explore this newfound conspiracy ideology you have found, while on the other hand you're probably withdrawing because you are afraid of confronting reasonable objections to that ideology.

    I sincerely hope you can claw your way out of the pit you're falling into. Best wishes.

    I will comment on your specific allegations in the following posts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
    James R, Jan 10, 2021
    #356
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  20. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    That video is trying to brain wash you. I didn't watch the whole thing; that would be a waste of time. Unfortunately, the presenter is plausible in his twisted arguments. Unfortunately, you are apparently unable and/or unwilling to think beyond the surface message of the video, to ask yourself what the maker's primary motives might be in making it. You really should do that, but unfortunately I think you've found a message that make you feel comfortable, which means you're unlikely to question it. I don't know what I can do to help you. I think only you can dig yourself out of the hole. I think I'd urge you to trust your gut. If something about the message feels wrong, even though it seems to make sense, there's probably something wrong with it.

    You're better than this, Alex. Don't let yourself be carried away into a realm of conspiracies and unreality.

    Yes. "Rationalise" is the correct word for it. [Look it up.]

    If this sudden dive of yours into a fringe conspiracy network is due to the fact that my opinions, and Bells', are at odds with sexist behaviours you view as "normal" and "everyday" and commonplace, I suggest you would be better approaching those issues directly, rather than looking for excuses or for other people to blame.

    Go back to the issues that started this. Try to work out why it is that you think it is acceptable, along with paddoboy, to tell sexist jokes and to call young female shop assistants "love". See if you can articulate why this ought to be acceptable, even when (some) women say they dislike those behaviours.

    If you can't come up with reasons why you support paddoboy's point of view, other than that "lots of people act like that", then I suggest that you have more thinking to do. Trying to avoid facing the actual issues by blaming me, or Bells, for being "bitter" or by calling us "woke ideologues" or whatever, is counterproductive. Even if that accusation were true, it would do nothing to address the issues I've mentioned. If we have problems, or are imperfect, that doesn't excuse casual sexism. That would need its own, separate excuse. Do you have one?

    I infer what people are (probably) thinking from what they say, from what they write, from how they behave - just like you do.

    I am always very happy to be corrected if I draw the wrong conclusions about somebody's opinions.

    I do not claim to be able to read minds.

    Clearly, you and paddoboy both move in social groups in which it is acceptable to refer to a woman serving you drinks as "lubricating" you, and to think nothing of that, even after it is pointed out to you why it might be regarded as sleazy.

    Try removing yourself from the picture for a minute and think about it objectively. Can you think of any reason why a woman whose job is to serve drinks to male customers would dislike her role being referred to by those men as "lubricating" them?

    Also, consider whether you would use that term to her face. Would you call her over and say "Hey, love, can you please lubricate us some more, here?" If not, why not? If that form of language is harmless and unobjectionable, why would you not use it openly to the person to whom it directly refers? I hope you can explain.

    If that's your true intention, then I hope that in six months time or a year, or whatever, after you have had time to simmer down and think this through, you will consider returning here and owning your behaviour.

    Unfortunately, it sounds like you will have a harder battle with this than paddoboy. At least he hasn't been captured by a poisonous ideology. It sounds like you're falling down that black hole. I honestly hope you can get yourself out before it's too late.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
    James R, Jan 10, 2021
    #357
  21. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I think it's because you don't want to face up to reality. I think it's because you want to dive further down into the rabbit hole of poisonous conspiracy theories you have discovered. I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

    It is strange that you think that I'm bullying you, or paddoboy, but you are unwilling to honestly consider the question of whether, through his or your accustomed behaviours, paddoboy or yourself might be harassing women. It's not about intent, realise, but about perceptions and outcomes. I am saddened that you prefer to hide from the issue rather than facing it.

    You need to realise that when somebody questions your morals, it is not bullying. If you know you're in the right, you have nothing to be ashamed of, and you can provide robust responses to the questions. If, on the other hand, you suspect they may have a point, then calling them a bully is the wrong way to respond. You should be changing your behaviour, addressing the actual problem. Step one is to admit you have a problem, not to try to shift blame to the messenger.

    That video makes some clever arguments, but you need to look beyond the specifics at the big picture. Ask yourself: why did that guy make that video? What is the main message of the video, in regard to topics such as feminism and racism? Which sources does the video rely on the most? What are those sources best known for? Are they moral? Are they trying to suppress one or more groups of other people? Can you detect anger or hatred lying just below the surface messages of the video?

    You know that you never really addressed the matter of what you find offensive about the term "white male". I think that you're just trying to claim victim status, which is a distraction from the topic of this discussion.

    I am sorry to hear that the environment you grew up in was so harsh.

    However, realise that although there are obviously gradations of harm involved in different sexist/misogynistic behaviours, it does no good to ignore the lower-end harms while decrying the higher-end ones. Ultimately, the entire spectrum of harms is a problem that needs addressing, especially as the lower-end ones tend to ingrain attitudes that tolerate or condone the higher-end ones.

    Your accusation against Bells is despicable. You must know it is false, which makes it all the worse. You ought to apologise to her.

    Bells has never advocated women bashing men, in any form. You know this. Ask yourself: why do you feel the need to lie about that?

    I think that you believe that if you label Bells and myself as "bullies", you are then excused from listening to what we have to say, and from having any obligation to address the substance. That's a pathetic evasion. You should try to do better than that.

    Again, I am sorry to hear about your hard life. But, again, I have to remind you that the bad behaviour of others towards you does nothing to excuse bad behaviour by you towards others. Two wrongs don't make a right.

    The excuse that "I might be a bit sexist, but otherwise I'm a good person" doesn't really help you, either. paddoboy also tried that one earlier in the thread, in effect.

    Realise that nobody here is attacking you in general. Nobody is questioning your morals in general. This thread is about one thing - one set of behaviours. That's all it is about. Also, the problem being discussed here is very easy to fix. You don't have to change who you are, in a fundamental way. Nobody is asking you to do that. Understand?

    I disagree with you. I think that inequity is a problem in the world - not something people should be forced to overcome on their own if they can. I think all of us should be helping others to address the problems.

    No. That's not what this is about. paddoboy could have ended this discussion at many different points, in many different ways. He made a conscious choice. You should not paint him as a victim. He knew exactly what he was doing. He is responsible for his own actions.

    We didn't have to imagine or make up what he was thinking. He told us all. It's all on record.

    Those are separate matters, as I pointed out earlier. If you are really as concerned about them as you make out, you could start new threads on those specific matters any time you want to. I think you're attempting to distract.

    I think you've expressed your views very clearly, which is great. I understand where you're coming from. It is a pity that some people with ulterior motives have managed to drag you into a fantasy ground of shady conspiracies and bad intentions. I sincerely hope you can dig your way out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
    James R, Jan 10, 2021
    #358
  22. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    Okay...

    ???

    What?

    Are you suggesting I bash old men? Or that I bash men?

    It is this deliberate turn to lies that completely destroys any notion that you may try to post in good faith on this site Alex.

    Okay, I need to ask..

    Why do you think age absolves one of wrongdoing?

    I'm genuinely curious.

    Paddoboy has a loooong history of sexist behaviour and misogyny on this site. A long loooong history of it. Are you suggesting that this should be overlooked simply because of his age?

    Age does not entitle you or Paddoboy to say and do whatever you damn well please. Nor does it excuse sexism, misogyny and general bigotry.
     
    Bells, Jan 10, 2021
    #359
  23. billvon

    billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,644
    I am sure you found it hard at times. So did I; I won't bore you with stories of paying for school with nickels, dealing with abusive alcoholics and drug problems in my family or having to defend myself from muggers.

    But you (and I) both have a lot of privilege compared to, say, a black woman trying to do the same thing, or a gay man. It does not mean you did not have a hard life. It does not mean your achievements are not impressive. It does not mean you didn't have to run hard to get what you've got. But it does mean you got to start far in front of those people.

    And again, if your knee is jerking right now, your blood pressure is rising and you feel compelled to tell me stories of how you had it hard, don't bother. I believe you. I hope you will believe me when I tell you that someone who had exactly the same problems thrown at you as you did - but who was a black woman - would have had much, much worse outcomes. Not because you got great bennies and had it easy, but because the deck was stacked against them from the start. And that's reality.
     
    billvon, Jan 10, 2021
    #360
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