exchemist
Valued Senior Member
Yes, I think the point about standards being raised over time is important too, especially for those of us, like me, who are now over 60.exchemist:
Of course I'm aware of that. I might also mention that I'm Australian, like paddoboy and Alex, so I'm familiar with attitudes and behaviours that are common enough in Australia. I have travelled to many different parts of Australia. I am nowhere near as naive and unworldly as Alex wants to make out. I've been called "luv" by strangers often enough and I've seen plenty of people use that term of address in many different contexts.
The "you young ones just don't understand" excuse is a weak one, if you ask me, and that's coming from somebody who is middle-aged.
It depends on the circumstances, of course.
I can agree with you about not been judgmental when dealing with people who don't know any better, and in dealing with people whose intentions are good, or at least not malicious.
A lot of the time - most of time, probably - when the "luv" thing comes up in regular conversations, it's not worth making a fuss about it. That's why I have put up with it in the past. That's why women put up with it a lot of the time.
But here we are on an internet discussion forum, specifically discussing the implications and impact of "luv" in everyday interactions, and the question of whether it would be good or bad, as a general rule, to promote the not-uncommon use of that form of address. In the current context, all the participants are highly informed as to the relevant matters. Nobody can claim ignorance. Not now. Not after 380 posts of this thread.
At some point, it is reasonable to start judging behaviour - particularly at the point where the behaviour and its implications and its effects are well understood by those who are engaging in it.
Immoral behaviour is worse when it is done knowingly and deliberately. I have no qualms about forming an opinion about that.
Of course.
Earlier in this thread, I suggested the rule of thumb "Don't be an arsehole."
The key point, from my point of view, in your paragraph here is the point that "standards are raised".
The main problem in the current thread, is that people who know better are trying to refute the notion that it is right to try to raise standards. What they seem to want is tradition, not morality. In fact, I think what they really want is to be left alone - to not be obliged to ever change their own behaviour, even when they understand why it is less than morally optimal.
I might also point out that Alex's current stance seems to be "when in doubt about whether a term might be offensive or lascivious, assume that it is neither", which I'd say is a very bad rule of thumb.
If I think back to 40 years ago, I think we were all fairly casual about racist jokes and attitudes and routinely derogatory towards homosexuals - even if, when we actually knew someone personally in one of these categories, we would be perfectly nice to them. So yes, us oldies need to recognise that standards are going up and we ought to see the need to keep up, as these various unfairnesses get brought more forcefully to our attention.