Everyday sexism

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by James R, Dec 7, 2020.

  1. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, I think the point about standards being raised over time is important too, especially for those of us, like me, who are now over 60.

    If I think back to 40 years ago, I think we were all fairly casual about racist jokes and attitudes and routinely derogatory towards homosexuals - even if, when we actually knew someone personally in one of these categories, we would be perfectly nice to them. So yes, us oldies need to recognise that standards are going up and we ought to see the need to keep up, as these various unfairnesses get brought more forcefully to our attention.
     
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    Context and comments made in the lead up:

    At no time have I advocated for anything like you are accusing me of.

    At all.

    You seem to be answering things or making comments about what is not even being discussed.

    By using an analogy that had absolutely nothing to do with it at all...

    I wasn't bulling paddo, nor was I abusing him.

    Do you think challenging his archaic and offensive beliefs is bullying?

    You seem to expect me to simply roll over and accept everything without daring to speak up. The moment anyone speaks up to paddoboy, you waltz in and accuse people of bullying. It's not the first time you've done it either.

    Wow. You just don't stop, do you?

    You used a frankly dumb analogy and linked me to it and then tried to claim it was something else.

    But you do not always post in good faith.
    "Old man paddo" is how you described him.

    It's not the first time you complained about how he was being bullied and something something his age. For example:

    So when you refer to him, with the historical context of your posts and how you have referred to him in your complaints to how we address him thus far in this thread, are you now saying that you are now saying "old man" now has a completely different meaning?

    I'll leave you to see if you can spot the contradiction there..

    Telling him his behaviour is not appropriate is not abusing him.

    We aren't making up the scenarios he has posted here about how he behaves in public. We literally are going just by his words and his description for his own behaviour.

    That's nice.. You know, when I told paddoboy that wolf whistling women was sexist, he called me a "feminazi" among a few other choice terms.

    It's interesting that you never complain about the bullying and stalking behaviour that paddoboy is known for on this site..

    Just when I challenge him, in your roar like his little bodyguard and accuse me of bullying him.

    Kept it nice?

    Are you aware that all of us have had this discussion with paddoboy before? Numerous times in fact?

    That no amount of keeping it nice, coddling, handholding and pleading saw him change his attitude and instead just saw him be more and more abusive towards others.

    Wegs is super nice to him all the time. Does he listen to her? No, he does not.

    Instead, he continues to defend his bad behaviour.

    Do you remember when you told him that wolf whistling was sexist and how he responded to you? He told you that your opinion was a bit precious, then told you that you should lighten up a bit when you commented about sexual harassment and then went on to describe this doozy:

    He claims he's treating everyone the same? How much do you want to bet he's not walking up to young male cashiers and commenting on how pretty they look?

    Why is that Alex?

    I spent time and provided him with a slew of links and studies. He refused to acknowledge any of them and continued to pretend his behaviour was acceptable.

    So explain to me, please, how or why you think I am unable to deal with his behaviour objectively?
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    No.

    The reason we have sexism is because men cannot seem to understand that women are equal to them and have fundamental human rights that is equal to that of men.

    That attitude and belief predates the Church and Hollywood.

    If paddoboy alters his bad behaviour, it means it's one less sexist misogynist.

    You defend his sexist behaviour and excuse it and accuse others of bullying him when we challenge him on it.

    Why do you do so?

    You enabled him.

    What? You forgot this?

    I mean, it would be comical if it wasn't just so damn pathetic.

    You understand sexism as well as you understand racism..

    Remember your complaint about how being called a 'white man' is worse than being called a 'nigger' because 'white man' is not only racism, but sexist as well?

    That is why I don't think you understand sexism at all.

    You fail to understand or appreciate the actuality of white male privilege when you uttered that statement and your shaking rage about it all..

    Really?

    Because you didn't pick paddoboy up for any of his after we all told him they were inappropriate and he just didn't stop.

    Yes.

    And?

    I'm sorry you had to go through that.

    I prosecuted sex crimes for several years and it's not easy.

    And the men I hate.. That's an interesting addition there..

    Consider what you have spent your time defending..

    Your complicity in his behaviour and comments. Your dismissive attitude towards his sexist behaviour throughout this thread.

    Perhaps review what you enabled and then get back to me.

    I did not watch the video because a) I have a severe ear infection currently and wearing my headset would probably make me faint from the pain of it and I am not turning on speakers as it would wake my children up downstairs as their bedroom is right under where my desk is currently and b) again with this 'ordinary folk' thing. Refer to above regarding what you enabled.
     
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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    <---reading Perry

    ........................
    meanwhile
    Long ago and far away
    [Situational story follows: Skip it if it bores you.]
    [I was having one helluva good time at my last university. I was taking courses in whatever tickled my fancy. At that university, you needed 12 hours to be a full time student, and they thought that 18 was a full load. I habitually carried 32-34 hours(and enjoyed almost every minute) I described my experience as: "Finding a likely professor and knocking him down, then pulling out my 'knowledge straw' and draining his brain dry---then moving on to the next likely candidate. Ok so far? There was a pattern to the approach that most professors took: They would propose to cover XXX of material in the course, and by midterms had only covered X. So, metaphorically, They would all slam on the gas at the same time. Knowing this, I was usually at least a week or 2 ahead at midterms and kept up for the rest of the term. OK, now to the nitty-gritty. Pre-registration took place during midterms. Curious that, there was pre-registration, and late registration, without that thing in the middle. Ok back to the story. One term, I was way ahead of the course material at midterms and decided to attend pre-registration, during which, the selection of courses was broader. So, I pre-registered 34 hours and went on about my knowledge sucking behaviors. The university was on the quarter system(as opposed to the semester system}I had a cottage in the country where I collected my mail, and went to spend a little time rusticating. OK so I went to collect my mail and discovered that the universities computer had thrown out all of my selected courses-------eeeek oh noooo! So, I cut my rustication time short and hurried back to the city and university. Getting there, I went to the "tower of power" wherein the deans had their offices---the place was almost deserted. Checking from empty office to empty office, I finally found a small office with a junior(assistant) dean, and presented him with my dilemma. He placed a call to order up my files and bade me return on the morrow. The next day. I entered his office with the assumption that the dilemma was solved and that I had my courses back ..............well, not quite(not yet anyway). He told me that I was taking too many courses. Whatever helluva page that was, he and the computer both seemed to be on it. Ok negotiation time, and I said how about if I get a C in a class, I drop it? and He responded, I would hope that you would do better than a C. ... ...p a u s e....... and I asked: Have you actually opened that folder and read what is in it? ... then Perhaps, you should do that now.
    Oh, quoth he.....I see. Ok, I'll authorize this, but once every quarter you have to see me and take at least one lower level degree requirement.....and he wrote up a contract to that effect and had me sign it. I thought it absurd that if I was taking 3 and 4 hundred level courses and doing well in them, that I should be required to take freshman level courses in the same discipline. BUT, when in rum do as the rummies do- so I agreed.]
    ok?
    Back to the subject at hand.
    I found myself in a 100 level anthropology course taught by professor Mike Lieber. surrounded by 18 year old women and men(children from my perspective) with Mike seated on a folding chair in front of the class and he started off by saying.
    "If you're wondering why I have such a big ass-----you don't drive a spike with a tack hammer."

    different times and ages, different mores
    Whatever Mike was, he was also a hoot, and quite incapable of comprehending Gregory Bateson.
    (but that's a different story for another time.)
     
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you Bells and James for replying to my posts.

    I have decided to overlook your collective inability to work out my message, and to overlook the fact that in my effort to point out bullying and abuse is wrong you find no virtue, and not to concern myself that you fail to recognise that totalitarianism finds its evils in seeking to deal objectively with matters that would be best treated subjectively ... and acccept your inability to be somewhat rational and deal with the reality that behaviours are dictated by a society that takes its cue from Hollywood and a church, both of them intent on the absolute promotion of degrading women ...this sad situation can only continue as you choose to exclude these major factors from your constructed reality. And to be clear my position is more to objecting to the bullying and abuse employed, however on this point I conceed and mostly unknown to me, the arguement and accusations go back much further than I am aware it now seems...nevertheless frustration although reasonably accumulated need not be voiced via abuse and bullying....What is clear is we all see a problem that women are not respected and the sexism movement wants to change this...and rightly so.

    I am surprised that Bells has not picked up that I am rather focused on domestic violence and the death rate in Australia, approx one death a week, of women killed by a poor excuse for a man, (bring back capital punishement and lets fix this problem...I bet the death rate would halve the first year of executions..lets make sure that for ever woman that is killed her killer is killed...I will do the executions if you all arectoo weak)...killed by a current or former partner..it is perhaps my focus on domestic violence that causes me to be sensitive to abuse and bullying as a method to promote ones point of view...(but execution is ok..Am I not entiteled to my share from the huge supply of hypocracy)....and perhaps I consider going after those who, without malice, use luv, darling, sweety somewhat inappropriately trivial when the real problem is a society that draws this male dominated indulgence from Hollywood and the church...Paddo was raised a catholic so I wonder if he was ever told by a teacher that woman are well..just read the quotes above from religious folk.

    I simply must go..I am not taking my bat and ball and going home and mention that reference only to ask..why James would you say that when I went to the trouble of telling the forum..I like chatting here and the reason why I won't be here is because I have chosen to put my time to a more productive use..did you read my mind and determine I am actually thinking..that I will take my bat and ball etc..get real...and that is not to say chatting here is not productive given that I get to chat with nice folk with some intelligence..it stimulates me to a degree..that can only be good....but when I find my words are twisted and my points missed and that I am regarded as lacking experience in matters I talk about..Bells I can't forget how you could not accept my personal accounts of my experience with bush fires merely to drive your views on how it must have been..not what I witnessed...so I see little point I guess when I can be doing stuff like guitar practice or looking thru my microscopes...

    If any of you are serious about being better take on board the small message from the video, which is...deal with the reality you find and don't fall for inserting a reality that suits your world view..that is what humans do..look at Christians.. you see it there but fail to see how you do it..the reality is folk call each other inappropriate names, it is not entirely right...however and this is the reality to really focus upon..it is most often with out malice...now this excludes SJWs from tramping in and declaring it wrong...and why focus on the result of promotion that leads to woman's sad position when we could focus on the reason..the church and Hollywood..

    Thanks for all the low hanging fruit in both of your posts ... clearly put there to ensure a win for me on my reply and keep me involved..nice but I go for reasons stated.

    I wish you all the best and hope that you youngsters have benefited from my wisdom.

    Alex
     
  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry to hear that Bells, I hope you have been to the doctor...women often tuff it out because well you know they have to be there to serve every one else that has been the message from the church and Hollywood and we go along...

    The way to approach the video is with two things in mind..even a stopped clock is right twice a day and that message from?..I can't recall where at the moment..but.. Listen to the dull and the ignorant for they too have their story...and so J suggest a somewhat casual approach..but the message the video makes, unfortunately directed only at his target and not humans in total, is folk invariably adjust their perceptions to fit their beliefs..now we all do that... and doing it is less than productive...the description of reality presented by Paddo and those opposed is vastly different...actual reality one hopes is somewhere between the two..

    sure folk should not use "pet" names..but the reality is when they use them they don't see it that way..no malice..honestly it makes my skin crawl when some woman younger than me calls my darling...I am not your darling..I absolutely hate it.. there is a case for pulling her up but all you would get is a bewildered look..I also hate being called "bro"..I am not your brother...but I realise from their side is is no more than being friendly and therefore inoccent...you must be aware of the common law requirement of evil intent for crime and sure codification changes that...and one could argue that codification is a mere convenience for the law..now all things become objective when being subjective I feel is more just..and certainly laws have many exceptions and mitigation machinery included to include subjectivity...they take it away but are forced to see justice done return it with qualifications and mitigation listed ..as many as they can think of at the time.

    Anyways the video...it's point re constructing a reality that suits ones view being wrong is the only message to go home with...

    Please look after yourself and if you have not been to the doctor you get there right away and get the best help available ...any infection must be treated seriously...anyways don't bother about the video just take what I took from it...

    Alex
     
  10. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    All of this opposition. lol Is it really that difficult for some men to just treat women with respect, not use pet names to grab their attention if they don't know them, and stop making fun of women's intelligence/decision making skills? (which is what prompted James' thread to begin with)

    Twenty pages later and it would seem that the answer to that question is ''yes.''

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  11. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    God has intervened as I find two strings on my guitar broken.

    Wegs I agree entirely but the thing really is that by keeping this thread going and going the message is getting out there...there will be people who read this, just passers by, who probably never thought about these things and now thanks mainly to Paddo taking one for the team these passers by are at least thinking about this matter...hopefully from time to time these folk will say well that is a good point or heck I did not know that...but one thing is for sure anyone reading this will hopefully think more deeply..look at the other issues that come in as well..the conflict between objectivity and subjectivity, is bullying and abuse allowed to promote a good cause or not, should folk presume to know what another is thinking...and for my part I hope folk can realise the world is bigger than the one they construct in their lounge room.

    Moreover although no one will address the real problem is our culture..driven by Hollywood and the church..but the fact I raise it may get one or two people to think ..hey those quotes Alex put up are a bit over the top, how dare the church treat women so badly..let's go burn the place down...mmm and maybe folk will think why can't we have a female Pope..are they not good enough?

    The main reason I got involved here was to keep the thread going....and although you think the matter could be dealt with in one page I say Why not keep it going, why not make folk address the issues, .... only this morning I have decided the next person that calls me "bro" I will say " I am not your brother you fucking moron" and smash their face in with my walking stick, ...the next woman who calls me sweety I will say "fuck you you sexist bitch", and if someone calls me luv I will say " your place or mine"... You know deal with the problem rather than just ignore it...I am thinking to paint a bill board to wear outside the church..."We want a female Pope" or go to the picture theater and ask will they be having any movies where women are treated like humans.

    But as I said it is important to keep this thread going and going as it is just one more way we can bring attention to the fact our culture sucks and we need to fix it...do you know the numbers for the women who die at the hands of their current or ex partner in the USA...I looked but it is not easy to determine strangely.. but it's huge...and don't think it's only USA and Australia..it gets worse in other countries.

    Heck as sad as it is Australia and USA treat women reasonable when compared to most other places...check out honour killings..where brothers kill their sister because she went out with out someone to keep an eye on her...common place sadly..in many places it is the woman's duty to wash her husband's feet when he gets home...and that is more about domination than dirty feet don't you know....and it all comes from stupid religion made up by men who treated their women like their goats and implemented methods to keep them under control...this is just one reason why religion is evil...leaving religion would be a good idea so at some point because of falling numbers they ask why..and I will be there to say because you promote a total lack of respect for women..your grace...nice slippers by the way...it is only by driving home to all religions they must live in the current times and not treat women as less than human we may have a hope..now folk will get better and Hollywood may line up with the new norms...if they don't censor them..yes yes it's bad but given our cause is noble why not...why does no one see that..you watch...we will get..but it's wrong to call some one luv..er yes it is but let's go and picket the church with "We demand a female pope"...



    I actually do get what folk are saying ( I have know for ages..before it became a thing..I would not let my daughter play with dolls and treated her better than some breeding unit in training) but oddly even though I say I understand because I step in to point out bullying Paddo is counter productive folk think I now can't think for myself and take on all that Paddo presents...it's the bullying and the abuse that I object to and the inability for folk to state their point calmly without trying to put words into someone's mouth or saying "But I know what you are really thinking"....again think about the sillyness of judging a situation when you were not there, have no testimony from witnesses and then arrogantly say but I know not only what you are thinking but I also know what everyone there was thinking...I wonder how that could be so..arrr you are devine blessed with godlike power...not..judgement to be valid must employ actual facts not stuff made up to suit ones arguement..go to court with such an approach and see how that flies..it is these side issues I won't let past..and I don't care what anyone thinks if they do not have the brain power to actually take in what I say...the main thing is to keep folk reading...and so perhaps you could continue to contribute even at the risk of being repetative..it all helps.

    And the next time you go to church take along my quotes about women being usless etc above and ask if the church could distance itself by giving a talk on why the congregation should absolutely disregard these evil evil quotes...and ask why can't we have a female Pope.

    And post your results.

    You look after yourself.

    Alex
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
  12. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    WTF kind of message?

    This thread has been filled with useless personal anecdotes that people claim are examples which is utter bullshit.
     
  13. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    It has been several years since I have exclaimed:
    "I'd walk ten miles barefoot through a blizzard just to stand in her shit."

    Does that mean that I am becoming more sensitive?

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  14. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    Seems rather Sad that the two Most Intelligent, Most Wise, Most Insightful, Most Respectful and not to mention Most Humble members of this Forum that Never, Ever in any way shape or form Bullied any other member of this Forum, themselves suffered so much Bullying to be driven away.
     
  15. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    paraphrasing John Dunne
    Any man's departure from these forums diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

    John Donne
     
  16. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    You know..the message.
    Alex
     
  17. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    No. I don't.

    Weren't you accusing Bells and James R of telling people what they think? So, now you'll be a hypocrite if you don't answer.
     
  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Hi DMOE

    How are you going.

    I am just so flattered by what you wrote, you little devil you could give a fella a swelled head..if you got your hands on him I bet.

    He that lives by the sword must die by the sword they say ..honestly do you think I have ever bullied anyone..maybe I have..there is this thing they say that the flaws you find in others are ones you have yourself...ok so I am prepared to say Paddo had a little bit of bully in him and perhaps I do also...I would like to think that that in my case I just fight as hard as I can..in an effort to compensate for my lack of education I bet. And then there is this thing..those who can do and those that can't teach...maybe my hypocracy will serve to have others wonder if they suffer from a similar hypocracy.

    But why this need to think I have been driven away? You either have not read my explanation or if you have have put it to one side to substitute a reality that makes you feel better..That's ok we all need to be the center of our own universe...so now that you are here what do you think about folk calling women luv, well specifically Paddo, ...do you think he is a little bit sexist, a lot sexist, or completly inoccent of all charges...I can tell you are missing him already and I can understand as you two had such wonderful little exchanges...

    Man I am stuffed..I have been outside, beer with straw will love this..another story..breaking rock in the Sun..yes the Sun is out so I have power and given my guitar only has four strings I may just hang around here all day..won't that be nice..we can catch up.

    I hope you are managing ok in this virus situation..me I am ok..I don't go out much in normal times so it's the same old same old for me.

    Anyways I sincerely hope you are ok and thanks for all the compliments but most of all thank you to cause me to look at myself having regard to your valid observation...I certainly will be more careful in the future.

    Alex
     
  19. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I thought that was confined to James..he even admitted he did and said that he was able to do so based on various things like what they had said in the past. Bells maybe guilty of it I don't recall. I just think it is wrong telling folk you know what they are thinking...or putting words in their mouth.
    Well I could be there is a lot of it going about.


    The message...the message is that although common place and widely accepted the telling of jokes that demean the other sex, in this case women for being stereotyped as being late, are unacceptable.

    Although most humour is at the expense of someone it was correctly pointed out that it would best best that sexism type jokes should be abandoned given there is a need to rid our culture of the general lack of respect for women clearly apparent applying the most casual observation...

    The other message we can add in I suspect with out objection from those participating here is that it would be nice to have all men not talk to women in familiar terms, specifically, calling female strangers luv, the best example but generally any name which is being un necessarily familiar and most often resented by those on the receiving end. Paddo holds a view that it is inoccent and well received. Me I don't like being called luv, or sweety, or darling or bro which only helps me realise that women must feel similar ..although I think for them it must be much worse when you add in the rest of the crap they must put up with.

    Holy crap a huge goanna just stuck his head in the van...got to get a photo.
    Alex
     
  20. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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  21. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    A dis•in•gen•u•ous response, maybe?
    Due to misunderstanding my Post, maybe ?
    Or maybe just an Accolyte trying to earn "attaboys" from the Master?

    Meh, what do I know...given my "Sustitute Reality" and all?

     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  22. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I was being sincere. I thought you you saying that I was a bully..so given I respect your opinion I thought about it and made a genuine reply...and since then realise you must be right because in my real world loved ones have told me that I am overbearing and must have things my way...looking at it unemotionally it seems you are right and now if you want to argue that I am not a bully I will argue that indeed I am...so in your view am I a bully or not?

    Maybe I misunderstood your post but I though you were having a go at me and Paddo boy, for thinking we are clever etc..and we were bullies ..did I get it right or wrong?.It does not worry me if you don't like me..but I like you ..in the early days you would chat with me..do you remember?

    Just because you and Paddo don't like each other why should that influence my high opinion of you...any shots you take at me I write off because you think Paddo and me are close..well we are close in some respects but I don't agree with everything he says... why should... I if he does not like my opinion why should I care... and I am opposed to the Big Bang so we disagree on the finer points there... I hate football..he loves it...

    An Accolyte..mmm sure me??? that is about as an unreal reality you could construct ... do you think that I ever followed anyone in my life??? Ever? and trying to earn " attaboys" from the master... all I can say is you have me wired for sure but in my reality it's not liked that at all...the fact I don't give a rat's arrrrs about anybody's view of me perhaps should be squeezed in there someplace...

    Well you think what you like and how you construct your reality is entirely up to you... mine ain't too bad...I realise there are 7 billion people on the planet and that some, a small few obviously, won't see things my way...clearly they are wrong and I am right...that's pretty together by everyone's standards wouldn't you think...well I must confess I actually don't think many would see it my way and I can live with that and with that approach I don't waste time judging others...well given I must have some hypocrite in me even that can't be entirely true..could it.

    Anyways enough of this small talk ..can I emplore you to offer your opinion on sexism in general...

    Alex
     

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