Is faith a reliable path to knowledge?

[Michael 345]

I have made my position clear in previous posts and I am ready to move on to more interesting facts.
As Carlin said, God is all powerful and can make and do everything we see, except He just can't handle money. Alaways needs a little more, tax-free. For those gold panes no doubt, or perhaps some more gold brocade on the outfits.

Those funny pope hats cost a fortune and they don't want to look silly wearing a tin foil hat

 

[Write4U]

The glass blowing thing is neither here nor there.
Your attempt to explain spirituality, God, existence, and so on, is based on belief.
jan.

Remind me ; what is the title of this thread? Knowledge of what? I am contributing the usually unknown fact that cathedral glass panes contain gold dust.
Even as they did not know how or why it worked. I explained it and provided a link to "knowledge" associated with the windows in houses of religious faith.
But if you want to continue in a discussion of spiritual knowledge, be my guest.

I doubt if you have any knowledge to share in that area. No one else seems to have.

 

[Write4U]

Those funny pope hats cost a fortune and they don't want to look silly wearing a tin foil hat

Good point, after all popes need mental protection, just in case the little green aliens want to corrupt the pope's mind and muddle his thoughts, with destructive mental wavelenths of "the Force". Can't be careful enough in these delicate matters...

 

[Michael 345]

Good point, after all popes need mental protection, just in case the little green aliens want to corrupt the pope's mind and muddle his thoughts, with destructive mental wavelenths of "the Force". Can't be careful enough in these delicate matters...

I do have a idea the hat hides a subwoofer and popie has Madonna on while he thinks

I wonder if she really is a virgin and

could I get her pregnant with my spirit?

 

[Write4U]

I do have a idea the hat hides a subwoofer and popie has Madonna on while he thinks

I wonder if she really is a virgin and could I get her pregnant with my spirit?

Had any spiritual erotic dreams lately?

 

[Michael 345]

Had any spiritual erotic dreams lately?

Certainly none about Madonna Mary

 

[Jan Ardena]

Remind me ; what is the title of this thread? Knowledge of what?

"Is faith a reliable path to knowledge? "
The emphasis from James, and the theme of a lot of thinking atheists, is that faith in God, is somehow different from faith that isn't.

My point is that faith is faith no matter the subject matter.

I am contributing the usually unknown fact that cathedral glass panes contain gold dust.

Obviously. But what does that have to do with "spiritual displays, or the thread?

Even as they did not know how or why it worked. I explained it and provided a link to "knowledge" associated with the windows in houses of religious faith.

Same as above.

But if you want to continue in a discussion of spiritual knowledge, be my guest.

I doubt if you have any knowledge to share in that area. No one else seems to have.

I'm only interested in your "spiritual displays" claim. I gave some definitions on what is regarded as spiritual, so I can detect whether or not you're on to something.

I can only assume you have knowledge/information of what is spiritual knowledge, why you would make such a claim (spiritual displays).

Jan.

 

[Write4U]

"Is faith a reliable path to knowledge? "
The emphasis from James, and the theme of a lot of thinking atheists, is that faith in God, is somehow different from faith that isn't.

Yes, context.

My point is that faith is faith no matter the subject matter.

Objectively yes,but there are several types of faith and bases for using that phrase. There has to be context.

Obviously. But what does that have to do with "spiritual displays, or the thread?
Same as above.

Ahhhhh, that where the spiritual context comes in. Impressive scenes inspire awe and submission, either individually or as a group.

I'm only interested in your "spiritual displays" claim. I gave some definitions on what is regarded as spiritual, so I can detect whether or not you're on to something.

IMO, spiritual submission is achieved by grandiose display. This can even be found in the mating displays of male contenders in the natural world.

I can only assume you have knowledge/information of what is spiritual knowledge, why you would make such a claim (spiritual displays). Jan.

OK, answering in my terms, the MNS is the library of internal (spiritual) knowledge and cognition of the external world, physically from true observation, but also from apparently true, but false observation , and often from imagination. The trick is to discover which is true.
That's how optical illusions work, they are designed to fool the cognitive area of the brain and even as we know the illusion is a 2d construct, the mind can imagine a 3D black hole.
Note that it required motion to create that illusion. Did you try the spinning lady?
Your mind can make her spin both ways, are we making her spin one way or the other or is she able to do it when we are spiritually receptive?

I identify these subjective thoughts as individually spiritual. Of course there is the group spirituality of a panicking, stampeding crowd, when some one yells, "fire in the house", or the group extasy when the home team scores a goal.

Belief has several interpretations and can only be used when the context in which it is used is clear I have thousands of beliefs and when of them agree with the people I meet, I feel a spiritual harlony. Spiritual harmony = Empathy (MNS)

 

[Jan Ardena]

Objectively yes,but there are several types of faith and bases for using that phrase. There has to be context.

Can you explain some of these "several types" of faith.

Ahhhhh, that where the spiritual context comes in. Impressive scenes inspire awe and submission,

That violates the definition of "spiritual".
I would go as far as to say that is the complete opposite of "spiritual", based on definitions.

IMO, spiritual submission is achieved by grandiose display. This can even be found in the mating displays of male contenders in the natural world.

That is the fundamental difference between theist and atheist.

OK, answering in my terms, the MNS is the library of internal (spiritual) knowledge and cognition of the external world, physically from true observation, but also from apparently true, but false observation , and often from imagination. The trick is to discover which is true.

Not sure what is meant by MNS.

I assume that "the trick is to discover which is true" is neutral, meaning that it is unaffected by the mind which accepts the potentially false observation as true, despite whether the truth is verified or not.

My questions are, do you use the mind to correct the mind, or can you override the mind, and set it straight, so to speak?
If the latter, can you explain what takes place?

Did you try the spinning lady?
Your mind can make her spin both ways, are we making her spin one way or the other or is she able to do it when we are spiritually receptive?

Yes. I only see her move clockwise, no matter how long. I stare at it.

I identify these subjective thoughts as individually spiritual. Of course there is the group spirituality of a panicking, stampeding crowd, when some one yells, "fire in the house", or the group extasy when the home team scores a goal.

That's why we have such appossing views.

The thing is, you don't accept my view, but I accept yours.

Belief has several interpretations and can only be used when the context in which it is used is clear I have thousands of beliefs and when of them agree with the people I meet, I feel a spiritual harlony. Spiritual harmony = Empathy (MNS)

That make 's sense from your perspective.

Jan.

 

[spidergoat]

The emphasis from James, and the theme of a lot of thinking atheists, is that faith in God, is somehow different from faith that isn't.

My point is that faith is faith no matter the subject matter.

It is different. Since no effect of god has ever been shown to happen, there is no faith required to disbelieve in the god premise. It's just philosophical naturalism.

Also, you are probably continuing to hold a false definition of atheism as the belief there is no god. It really means one who doesn't believe in god.

 

[Jan Ardena]

It is different. Since no effect of god has ever been shown to happen, there is no faith required to disbelieve in the god premise. It's just philosophical naturalism.

In philosophy, naturalism is the "idea or belief that only natural (as opposed to supernatural or spiritual) laws and forces operate in the world."

This is the basis of your belief.

Also, you are probably continuing to hold a false definition of atheism as the belief there is no god. It really means one who doesn't believe in god.

So it has nothing to do with existence?
Or is (non) existence merely the reason why you don't believe in God?

Regarding the definition of atheist, from my perspective, it means "without God".
As you no doubt probably know by now.

Jan.

 

[spidergoat]

This is the basis of your belief.

Yeah, but nothing has yet contradicted it.

So it has nothing to do with existence?

Correct.

Or is (non) existence merely the reason why you don't believe in God?

No, god may exist and be hiding.

Regarding the definition of atheist, from my perspective, it means "without God".

Again, you like to harp on this because you assume there is a god to be with, rather than what it really means which is without a belief in god.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Yeah, but nothing has yet contradicted it.

There's nothing to contradict, it is a belief, based on God does not exist as far as you're aware.

Correct

What does it have to do with then?

No, god may exist and be hiding.

Translation: God does noes not exist as far as you're aware.

Again, you like to harp on this because you assume there is a god to be with, rather than what it really means which is without a belief in god.

You assume there isn't, despite your attempts at being rational.

Jan.

 

[Write4U]

Definition of faith

plural
faiths
loyalty lost faith in the company's president
(1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions acted in good faith

• 2a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religionb (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof clinging to the faith that her missing son would one day return (2) : complete trust

• 3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs the Protestant faith

on faith

1. : without question took everything he said on faith

1. Take your pick.

Write4U said:
Ahhhhh, that where the spiritual context comes in. Impressive scenes inspire awe and submission,

That violates the definition of "spiritual". I would go as far as to say that is the complete opposite of "spiritual", based on definitions.

Really, that's why we have we have all the pomp and circumstance in churches?

That is the fundamental difference between theist and atheist.

No, you are wrong. Spiritual ceremonies are designed to inspire awe and submission to the Ultimate Authority. Just as in nature. Males display their most grand and impressive postures, to impress a potential mate (or convert).

Not sure what is meant by MNS.

Mirror Neural System. It is the part of the brain that generates cognition and beliefs. Look it up.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Write4U,

Did you notice it said 'Definition of faith', then it went on to explain the different situations where one may have faith. Not that they were different types of faith.

Really, that's why we have ll the pomp and circumstance, in churches?

There is pomp and circumstance in non church situations as well. It doesn't mean it is a spiritual gesture. Unless, you believe that splashing out is a spiritual display.
But it doesn't match.

Jan.

 

[Write4U]

Write4U,

Did you notice it said 'Definition of faith', then it went on to explain the different situations where one may have faith. Not that they were different types of faith.

hmmmm, here is your question,

Objectively yes, but there are several types of faith and bases for using that phrase. There has to be context.
Can you explain some of these "several types" of faith.

Which I answered by showing different types of faith, with examples.

There is pomp and circumstance in non church situations as well. It doesn't mean it is a spiritual gesture. Unless, you believe that splashing out is a spiritual display.
But it doesn't match. Jan.

What is "splashing out" and what is its purpose?
Something like showing off to impress others?
Don't bother, I looked it up, so I can have faith that I get a correct answer.

And what does "splashing out" has to do with Pomp and Circumstance? Are you talking about babtising?

I never claimed that pomp and circumstances are exclusive to religions. I merely noted that religious ceremonies use ritual pomp and circumstance. God needs to be properly honored so that the faithful realize the importance of the ceremony, no?

Pomp

1. : a show of magnificence : splendor
   
   : a ceremonial or festival display (such as a train of followers or a pageant)
   
   : ostentatious display : vainglory

1. 
   

   Vainglory, noun, (n.)

   [*] Excessive vanity; empty pride; vain show; boastfulness.

 

[Write4U]

So, this "faith" that the sun will rise tomorrow is actually evidence-based, and so is the "faith" that your mother loves you. This is different from the kind of the religious faith I want to discuss here.

So, you want to discuss non-evidence based faith as a reliable path to *knowledge*?
Good luck with that.

 

[Write4U]

I do have a idea the hat hides a subwoofer and popie has Madonna on while he thinks

I wonder if she really is a virgin and

could I get her pregnant with my spirit? .....

That is actually a profound question from a genetic standpoint.
If Jesus was an offspring of a spirit, Jesus would have to be a female clone of Mary.

The Silvery Salamander mates with a male salamander, but is unable to receive the male sperm and all offspring of the Silvery Salamander are female and except for genetic damage, they are all exact clones of the mother. An interesting species.

Lacking its own males, the LJJ biotype breeds with male Blue-Spotted or Jefferson Salamanders from March to April. The males' spermatophores only stimulate egg development; their genetic material does not contribute to the offspring's DNA. This mode of reproduction is called gynogenesis. The females lay cylindrical egg masses and attach them to underwater twigs. It is not often observed and its diet and lifestyle are unknown.
Habitat and range[edit]
These salamanders live almost anywhere between south-central Michigan to adjacent Indiana and Ohio to western Massachusetts south to northern New Jersey. They are commonly found in or near shallow rivers and ponds in deciduous forest. There is an extremely limited population of the salamanders in Vermilion County, Illinois with only one remaining natural population known. They are considered endangered within the state. Theory states that the population may have dropped due to the vernal pool in which they live not retaining water for a long enough period for their tadpoles to reach metamorphosis.

 

[Michael 345]

That is actually a profound question from a genetic standpoint.
If Jesus was an offspring of a spirit, Jesus would have to be a female clone of Mary.

Thank you

I had not considered the genetic implications of spirit + ova

The Silvery Salamander mates with a male salamander, but is unable to receive the male sperm and all offspring of the Silvery Salamander are female and except for genetic damage, they are all exact clones of the mother. An interesting species.

I did not know that

Thanks again

 

[Jan Ardena]

Which I answered by showing different types of faith, with examples.

No. You showed different types of scenarios and circumstances where faith can be exercised.

What is "splashing out" and what is its purpose?

splash out (sth) UK. — to spend a lot of money on buying things, especially things that are pleasant to have but that you do not need: They splashed out £3,000 on a holiday.

I merely noted that religious ceremonies use ritual pomp and circumstance. God needs to be properly honored so that the faithful realize the importance of the ceremony, no?

So given the definition of spiritual, why do you regard it as a spiritual display?
It's a simple question really.

Jan.