We have witnessed the most inspiring speech from anyone since the great speeches of Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and George Washington. What we heard today was a call for Freedom. Freedom for the World! Freedom for every nation! Freedom for every people! Freedom for all! Freedom for the strong and for the weak! Freedom for the oppressed! Freedom from tyranny and the shackles of government! That is the clarion call that President George W Bush graced the country and the world with on this day. His speech was not just directed to our country and our own concerns, but the welfare of the entire world. This speech should be carved on granite and held atop a high mountain for all eyes to see. The principles espoused this day by our President reiterated the very principles that this country was founded upon. George W. Bush showed the world why we are the beacon of hope. From this day forth our foreign policy is freedom for all, nothing more and nothing less! Thank you President George W. Bush for your wisdom and courage, and may God bless him and this land that we may realize the vision that was so eloquently delivered this great and wonderful day January 20, 2005.

Freedom from the shackles of government? Is he an anarchist?


F*ck that hypocrite. When it was in their interest, they courted Saddam, Pinochet, and Noriega like they do Saudi Arabia (not a democracy) and Pakistan (not a democracy). Oh, yeah, and China (communist).

Freedom is so awesome. Bush is a freakin genius. I loved his quote:

"Division among free nations is a primary goal of freedoms enemies. The concerted effort of free nations to promote democracy is a prelude to our enemies defeat" -GWB

"We have known divisions, which must be healed to move forward in great purposes and I will strive in good faith to heal them." -GWB

ANd he's all like; "lets not be divided: lets be united and free and defeat the enemies of freedom!"

So he's saying, that people who divide, are bad. Thats just what the terrorists want you stupid dumb fucks! We need to help with Bush to reunite and kill the evildoers.

Your pal Freedom Bob,

"lover of freedom"

Bob, if you are insinuating through some sarcastic message that those who divide are not terrorists, I will have to report you to the Department of Homeland Security.

dissent=bad
conformity=good

These are the first two principles of our democracy!

Freedom for every nation!
The principles espoused this day by our President reiterated the very principles that this country was founded upon.
Our country was most certainly not founded on the idea of imperialism in the name of democracy.

Our country was most certainly not founded on the idea of imperialism in the name of democracy.

What an absurd statement. I suppose wiping out entire Indian tribes to take their land was what freedom was all about back then, eh? And of course, that's MUCH different from what American is doing today.

Manifest Destiny from an American's mouth. May O'Sullivan rest peacefully, he and his damn newspaper.

Bush is a genius?

I hope you realize that he does not write his speeches.
As for the speech, it was nothing more than empty platitudes and dull rhetoric that has been esposed a million times in a thousand different ways.
Not to mention the fact that, judging by his actions, he is a hypoctite of the highest caliber.

Brutus, are you sure you were listening to the speech with a critical ear? Bring freedom to every nation? So far it seems we have trashed Afghanistan and left, and while we were in the area we decided to grab Sadam's oil because who is going to defend him? What friends and allies? (actually that used to be us! Hehe, the perfect crime)

Doesn’t "Spreading freedom" by the bush method mean invading other countries and then getting bogged down in battles with partisan patriots of said nation? Do we have the money or military to actually do that even one more time?

And what is in store for these nations once they are satisfactorily "free"? Will they end up like Bush's vision for America: Government funded religion, abolished public education, cutthroat ‘supply side’ economics that eliminates the middle class and the environment in one stroke?
Hooray freedom! Freedom is on the march!

And what is in store for these nations once they are satisfactorily "free"? Will they end up like Bush's vision for America: Government funded religion, abolished public education, cutthroat ‘supply side’ economics that eliminates the middle class and the environment in one stroke?
Hooray freedom! Freedom is on the march!

Occupation is freedom! For that matter war is peace and ignorance is strength, I hope you liberal wacos can get those common sense ideals through your head.

Freedom as described by Bush is like the supposed freedom that Evangelical Christians believe are threatened in this nation. They complain that they aren't free to force their religion on people in every public venue, and especially their schools, they complain that they aren't free to deny the rights of others just because it goes against their dogma. So too is Bush's freedom nothing more than the freedom to invade any country which has a resource we desire, and the freedom to install our own puppet regime in place of whatever body they were governed prior. But most of all it's the freedom to get away with it scott free without the American people rising up in revolt at the lies you tell and the stories you change, or the main stream press even asking any tough questions.

Bush is all about freedom from accountability, and he sure as hell a mandate for that much, the American people have already made their choice to sigh, slouch down on their sofas and decide that taking back our government would just take away too much valuable TV time.

taking back our government would just take away too much valuable TV time.
To be fair, that Bill O'reilly is quite entertaining. Were you aware that he is both fair AND balanced?

Bob, if you are insinuating through some sarcastic message that those who divide are not terrorists, I will have to report you to the Department of Homeland Security.

dissent=bad
conformity=good

These are the first two principles of our democracy!

You are wrong my friend.

first principle of democracy = freedom

To be fair, that Bill O'reilly is quite entertaining. Were you aware that he is both fair AND balanced?

Good point. It's rather like Bush said himself. We did have a moment of accountability, and that was the 2004 election. Ignoring the fact that he's passing the buck on the responsibility for his actions from himself off to the American people, the message was still resoundingly that holding Bush accountable for his actions and those of his administration would probably make them feel more uncomfortable than sticking with the status quo.

first principle of democracy = freedom

Is anyone else laughing at this guy? Was this post a joke or is bob really suffering from reading comprehension deficiency?

What an absurd statement. I suppose wiping out entire Indian tribes to take their land was what freedom was all about back then, eh? And of course, that's MUCH different from what American is doing today.

Manifest Destiny from an American's mouth. May O'Sullivan rest peacefully, he and his damn newspaper.
I don't think we ever claimed to be bringing freedom to the Indians. We just didn't care all that much about them. We were trying to found our own country, and the Indians got in the way. There might be a similar economic reason for invading Iraq, but this freedom rhetoric is laughable.

I don't think we ever claimed to be bringing freedom to the Indians... this freedom rhetoric is laughable.

See the statement on Manifest Destiny. However you choose to twist it, it's still a rehashing of the same old rhetoric. If you laugh at it now, then you laugh at what your country has esteemed since day one.

Yea!! Brutus, Bruto!! the speeches are written by other people, this pundit got it made, about the only thing he does for himself is wipe is own ass, and even that may be debatable!. :rolleyes:

But anyhow let us see the end result of this tyrant, and were it will lead us.
The world fears for its safety, while this pundit claims to bring freedom. But at least tonight is party night for the guy;
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050119/wright.gif

Godless.

What we heard today was a call for Freedom. Freedom for the World! Freedom for every nation! Freedom for every people! Freedom for all! Freedom for the strong and for the weak! Freedom for the oppressed! Freedom from tyranny and the shackles of government!

And we will kill them all to bring them that Freedom! Let the genocide begin!

I'm holding out hope that Brutus was being sarcastic.

For me, it litterally is the speach at the end of Team America - World Police.
The one about dicks, pussies and assholes.

I'm holding out hope that Brutus was being sarcastic.

The Speech spoke the truth no matter who delivered it. If Bill Clinton gave that speech I would have stood up and cheered. However, I would probably doubt his sincerity. What gave the speech even more power was that you know George Bush believes every word of it and will see it through to the best of his ability. Love him or hate him you know that when George Bush says something he means it.

After that comment, I'm definitely holding out hope that Brutus is being sarcastic.
After all, we all know that Bush has been completely honest and forth-coming throughout his career thus far. *shakes head*

What gave the speech even more power was that you know George Bush believes every word of it and will see it through to the best of his ability. Love him or hate him you know that when George Bush says something he means it.

You can't be serious?!

There are literally dozens of tyrants and regimes throughout the world. Hell, America has even supported a number of them, including Saddam, and Afghan terrori... errm, I mean 'insurgents' during the Cold War. Thank God for double-speak!

How exactly are the Iraqi people 'free'?! Democracy does not = freedom (not that they have one yet, anyway). How is the right to indefinitely incarcerate 'suspected terrorists' freedom? How is the fact that anyone who looks 'suspicious' in Iraq can be placed in detention and tortured, as can their family?

If the Iraqi people were free, they would be able to choose their own system of government. What I see is political parties dropping out like flies.

The only thing the U.S has liberated the Iraqis of is their homes, and whatever small sense of security and stability they had when Saddam ruled.

Love him or hate him you know that when George Bush says something he means it.
But does he understand it?

I was watching the Daily Show last night and the count was 27 for freedom, and 15 for liberty. Words that been used so much they have become clichés. How can this president claim to stand from freedom when he is attempting to deny it to his own people through the Gay marriage amendment, the Patriot Acts, the 2000 election, etc. And internationally the man has no concept of freedom, the Iraqi ppl did not freely decide to let the US invade, the US supports these following dictatorships with money, arms, trade, and diplomatic support:

Saudi Arabia
Kuwait
Jordan
Egypt
Yemen
Oman
Pakistan
Morocco
Uzbekistan
Turkmenistan (the new NK)
Vietnam
China
Equatorial Guinea
Angola

And there is probably more…are those ppl going to get a taste of that sweet nectar of “freedom”? You see to Bush freedom doesn’t exist in nations that aren’t on the US’ side; if you are on the US’s side you are free. Also let’s not forget that what Bush means by freedom is most likely those nations that give the US what it wants, oil, bases, or capital, the neo-liberal conception of freedom. This is exactly why the world is increasingly mocking the US, and looking to the EU and even China for guidance. The President says a lot but if you are so ignorant to believe what he is saying then no wonder you voted for him. I think the best example of what I am saying is Libya…why is the US getting rid of sanctions against Qadaffi if he still maintains his dictatorship? America wake up…stop being so sheeple-isitic.

One_Raven:
Bush is a genius?

I hope you realize that he does not write his speeches.

Most Presidents don't.

But does he understand it?

Democrats underestimate George W. Bush at thier own peril.

And you overestimated him at America's peril...also just to add I think this presidentcy has given the Democrats the slap they desperately needed, and I think 2008 may be very interesting. If Bush screws Iraq even worse, and the economy the GOP will be the big loser in all this, and chances are Bush will.

Anything that can slap some sense into the democratic party can't be all bad. It has had a muliple personality disorder and a phobia of commitment for the last couple of decades.

But does he understand it?

Can you mean something you don't understand?

Chew on that one for awhile.

2006 will be an important year. If Democrats can win the house back, they can impeach King George II.

2008- what if Hillary runs? She is a centrist, and offers the possibility of our first female president.

I can't wait till we go to liberate all the nations in the world. Too bad he'll be president only for so a short time. But think of it, the boy is so close to world domination! Allow him a few extra terms and the plan shall be achieved.

2006 will be an important year. If Democrats can win the house back, they can impeach King George II.

They'd have to win back the Senate as well for an impeachment charge to be relevant, and they would have to have a huge turnover to boot. Republicans now hold 55 seats, and since you need a 2/3 'aye' vote of those present to win a conviction, the odds of that actually happening are slim and none unless you can figure out a way to prevent Republicans from being present. And if you did get a conviction, Dick Cheney would then officially be president. Why bother? Waste of tax dollars.

Democrats underestimate George W. Bush at thier own peril.

In the sense that too many (and let's not just criticize democrats, all anti-bush folk) fail too realize just how much support from a highly organized, efficient, merciless fundamentalest sect of "christianity" Bush has, and will use this to manipulate his power play for a corporate fascist state based upon the exploitation of worker and consumer alike.

The Speech spoke the truth no matter who delivered it. If Bill Clinton gave that speech I would have stood up and cheered. However, I would probably doubt his sincerity.

It was third class, idiotic rhetoric. His "terrorists hate our freedom" garbage is so readily spurted out that it is absolutely valueless. It was poorly delivered because Bush can't read more than one line of the teleprompter at a time and can't tell what to stress. Lacked substance, lacked style.

Can you mean something you don't understand?

Religious people do when they say what they believe.

The Speech spoke the truth no matter who delivered it. If Bill Clinton gave that speech I would have stood up and cheered. However, I would probably doubt his sincerity. What gave the speech even more power was that you know George Bush believes every word of it and will see it through to the best of his ability. Love him or hate him you know that when George Bush says something he means it.

if clinton made that speech i wolud have applauded too, because clinton did make the US a terrorist state, so his form of freedom woud be accomplishable without war

if the twin towers were bombed when clinton was in power(they wouldnt have been but this is hypothetical) i wolud have felt sorry for america

if clinton looked like a chimp i woludnt care, because he was a damn well trained one

however bush is evil, he is a modern day crusader, killing thousands in the name of his own god, while forgetting his own people in the process, he is the dictator of america, so he sould rule that country, not try to rule the world

The Speech spoke the truth no matter who delivered it. If Bill Clinton gave that speech I would have stood up and cheered. However, I would probably doubt his sincerity. What gave the speech even more power was that you know George Bush believes every word of it and will see it through to the best of his ability. Love him or hate him you know that when George Bush says something he means it.


Hell no. Democracy??!!!! Freedom???!!! Bush Toppled a Democracy in Haiti and replaced it with a dictatorship that does not allow free speech.

I saw ex-President Carter on Charlie Rose and Carter does not believe that Bush wants to see a democracy in Iraq despite Bush's speech's about democracy.

Reading the PNAC documents I am not sure that the neoconservatives understand that "democracy" is a form of government rather than a synonym for neoliberalism. Rumsfeld and Cheney unlike Bush have long track records on foreign policy and their pasts show no inclination towards promoting freedom for third world peoples.

What I see is a battle between the RealPolitik of President Bush senior and the long time pros at the State Department and CIA verses a self-deluded crazy variant of RealPolitik that the NeoConservative Thinktank Gadflies are trying to sell and which George Bush Junior seems to have bought. Perhaps nobody told George Bush junior the his administration toppled a democracy in Haiti. Colin Powlell knew he told lies to the American people and the UN and Colin Powell didn't like that. I assume George Bush junior has been kept informed but maybe I am wrong and George believes what he says.

The strange thing is Bush's speech delivery doesn't feel honest to my Bs detector but it clearly feels honest to most Americans. Ignoring the fact that George Bush has been caught lying, just based solely on affect I would not be comfortable buying a used car from George Bush if he was a used car dealer. I know that Red state peoples BS detectors are as good as Blue state peoples BS detectors so I guess the reason you all can't see through Bush's garbage is that the lies he tells are making you all feel good and that good feeling is blinding you. Maybe on some level you all knew better than to buy that "they hate our freedom" explanation for why we were attacked, but you were all grateful to Bush for helping you to cling to the America as hero of the world myth. I don't need myths for me to love America.

I would love America even more if the rest of us would grow up and stop needing to feel special. We are a great country but our Foreign policy from the days of the Indian Wars through today has always been amoral, infatuated with power, and susceptible to being co-opted by special interests. The world really does need America's leadership but our need to feel special seems to be clouding our vision. We really are plenty special enough so please let us grow up and stop being fools for people like Bush.

the world does not need americas leadership, in fact if it wasnt for america the world wolud have more money, more food, little military, and a great scientific adwancement

the world does not need americas leadership, in fact if it wasnt for america the world wolud have more money, more food, little military, and a great scientific adwancement

Without the leadership of the United States the world would be speaking German and celebrating 60 years of the 3rd Riche. The Soviet Union would still exist and communism could have not been opposed. If it were not for America's leadership slavery would have never been abolished. Saddam Hussein would have kept Kuwait and taken Saudi Arabia and now controlled most of the world's oil supply. If it was not for America's leadership and money the world would be much poorer, less food and less technologically advanced. America has saved the world time and time again.

Without the leadership of the United States the world would be speaking German and celebrating 60 years of the 3rd Riche. The Soviet Union would still exist and communism could have not been opposed. If it were not for America's leadership slavery would have never been abolished. Saddam Hussein would have kept Kuwait and taken Saudi Arabia and now controlled most of the world's oil supply. If it was not for America's leadership and money the world would be much poorer, less food and less technologically advanced. America has saved the world time and time again.

Stop with the "we saved your asses in WWII" shtick. We've changed a lot since then. The Iraq-Kuwait instance was not about freedom either. Kuwait to this day is a moarchy-dictatorship. Hardly democratic. It was about protecting our oil interests.

If it wasn't for America, I would have healthcare instead of having to decide between paying rent this month and affording a $150 perscription that I need. If it wasn't for America, we would be using alternative energy sources that don't pollute and destroy our only environment. If it wasn't for America, 700,000 people a year would not be arrested because of a fascist war on marijuana. In the last 50 years, America has fucked up again and again.

Love him or hate him you know that when George Bush says something he means it.

You're being sarcastic again, right? Bush is a worse flip-flopper than he accused Kerry of being.

To soccar moms he's pro AWB to the NRA he's anti AWB, to his religious base he's Pro anti-fag amendment, to the rest of America he's anti-anti-fag amendment. And don’t get me started on Iraq! He had WMD, ok no he didn't have WMD, We went into GET the WMD, eer no we went in because he had alqueda ties. . . er no, now it was because we wanted to bring freedom to Iraq! OH wait, yeah, no, really this time, the whole war was about freedom, seriously! I'll be lucky if I can make it out of these next 4 years without getting whiplash! I can't tell if we're fighting Eurasia or East Asia at this point, it's nuts!

Frankly I have trouble beleiving that Bush actualy stands firmly on any issue other than that he thinks he's never wrong and is always consistant, that one hasn't seemed to change, but at least it lets us keep laughing!

Love him or hate him you know that when George Bush says something he means it.

You're being sarcastic again, right? Bush is a worse flip-flopper than he accused Kerry of being.

To soccer moms he's pro AWB to the NRA he's anti AWB, to his religious base he's Pro anti-fag amendment, to the rest of America he's anti-anti-fag amendment. And don’t get me started on Iraq! He had WMD, ok no he didn't have WMD, We went into GET the WMD, eer no we went in because he had alqueda ties. . . er no, now it was because we wanted to bring freedom to Iraq! OH wait, yeah, no, really this time, the whole war was about freedom, seriously! I'll be lucky if I can make it out of these next 4 years without getting whiplash! I can't tell if we're fighting Eurasia or East Asia at this point, it's nuts!

Frankly I have trouble believing that Bush actually stands firmly on any issue other than that he thinks he's never wrong and is always consistent, that one hasn't seemed to change, but at least it lets us keep laughing!


Frankly I have trouble beleiving that Bush actualy stands firmly on any issue other than that he thinks he's never wrong and is always consistant, that one hasn't seemed to change, but at least it lets us keep laughing!

if the twin towers were bombed when clinton was in power(they wouldnt have been but this is hypothetical) i wolud have felt sorry for america


The twin towers were bombed while Clinton was in office. Back to recent history class with you!

Without the leadership of the United States the world would be speaking German and celebrating 60 years of the 3rd Riche. The Soviet Union would still exist and communism could have not been opposed.

Do you mean to imply that the Nazis and Soviet Union would have peacefully coexisted? Because honestly from what I saw that wasn't the case. . . oh by the way, did you also forget that it was the Soviet Union that won the European Theater of WWII, and Not the US? The US played a relatively small part in that portion of the war.

Do you mean to imply that the Nazis and Soviet Union would have peacefully coexisted? Because honestly from what I saw that wasn't the case. . . oh by the way, did you also forget that it was the Soviet Union that won the European Theater of WWII, and Not the US? The US played a relatively small part in that portion of the war.

The Soviet Union never would have gotten close to Berlin if it wasn't for the United States. Hitler could no longer hold his eastern front because he had to pull so many recourses to defend against us from the west.

No I am not being sarcastic. Sorry Mystech and Cole Grey. I still enjoy your post's and I respect everyone in sciforums, but I am Conservative. I live in one of the most reddest states in the union, and I do like George W. Bush. Does that mean I agree with everything he does? No. I wish he would be more conservative on the spending side of things. I wish he would defend our borders better. I would have liked to see us be tougher in Iraq, and I would like to see us put presure on Pakistan to allow us more access to get Bin Laden. But, overall I really like George W. Bush. I think he is the right President at the right time.

You don't care that he lied to us about the reason for going to war in Iraq?

That, in spite of dire warnings, he spent more than 40% of his time before 9/11 on vacation?

The consensus among TV pundits is that Bush gave a good speech, but one that had no connection with reality.

No I am not being sarcastic. Sorry Mystech and Cole Grey. I still enjoy your post's and I respect everyone in sciforums, but I am Conservative. I live in one of the most reddest states in the union, and I do like George W. Bush. Does that mean I agree with everything he does? No. I wish he would be more conservative on the spending side of things. I wish he would defend our borders better. I would have liked to see us be tougher in Iraq, and I would like to see us put presure on Pakistan to allow us more access to get Bin Laden. But, overall I really like George W. Bush. I think he is the right President at the right time.
And Hitler was right for 1935 Germany, Stalin for the post revolution Socialist Republic, and Ho Chi Minh for a toppled democracy in Vietnam.

When will people start looking for ideals such as freedom and liberty instead of bowing to a man?

You don't care that he lied to us about the reason for going to war in Iraq?

That, in spite of dire warnings, he spent more than 40% of his time before 9/11 on vacation?

The consensus among TV pundits is that Bush gave a good speech, but one that had no connection with reality.

To lie implies that he had foreknowledge that there were no WMD's. At the time the world believed Saddam had them. President Clinton, Tony Blair, the entire UN Security Council, even France and Russia thought they had them. So you cannot say the Bush lied. There were multiple reasons that taking Saddam out was justified. He was not complying with the 1st Gulf War cease fire agreement. He defied multiple UN resolutions. He did not cooperate with UN arms inspectors. He routinely fired on our aircraft in the no fly zone. He supported Palestinian suicide bombers and their families. He harbored terrorists. He was a threat to the region and the stability of our oil supplies. Even if he had no WMD's at the time of our invasion he could of acquired them very quickly. He may very well of had them and shipped them out of buried them. WMD's was just one of the reasons. We were more that justified in taking him out.

When The President is on vacation he is not really on vacation. He is just not at the White House. Everything he can do at the WH he can do at his ranch in Crawford.

First of all Brutus if you ACTUALLY know what conservative really is, you wouldn't support this administration, because I'm a conservative, I voted for bush in 2000, and I have been deceived by this present administration. And I find that I'm not the only one, that can actually comprehend what is to be a conservative, and this administration is not!. :mad:

click (http://conservativesforkerry.com/conspeakout.html)

Bush has behaved like a caricature of what a right-wing president is supposed to be, and his continuation in office will discredit any sort of conservatism for generations. click (http://sadparade.typepad.com/sad_parade/conservatives_for_kerry/)

Conservatives betrayed; click (http://www.alternet.org/election04/19696/)

The death of conservatism;click (http://www.moderateindependent.com/v1i15conservatism.htm)

I truly hope that you read through those links I've provided, perhaps you can comprehend the ideals of conservatism and the fact that this administration has duped on those ideals!.

Godless.

First of all Brutus if you ACTUALLY know what conservative really is, you wouldn't support this administration, because I'm a conservative, I voted for bush in 2000, and I have been deceived by this present administration. And I find that I'm not the only one, that can actually comprehend what is to be a conservative, and this administration is not!. :mad:

click (http://conservativesforkerry.com/conspeakout.html)

click (http://sadparade.typepad.com/sad_parade/conservatives_for_kerry/)

Conservatives betrayed; click (http://www.alternet.org/election04/19696/)

The death of conservatism;click (http://www.moderateindependent.com/v1i15conservatism.htm)

I truly hope that you read through those links I've provided, perhaps you can comprehend the ideals of conservatism and the fact that this administration has duped on those ideals!.

Godless.

Godless

I fully understand why many conservatives are upset with Bush and the present Republican controlled congress. I too would love to see us get back to true conservative principles. That is one reason I was very heartened at Bush's speech. Every ounce of it was pure conservatism. Now lets hope that he follows through on what he said.

The problem with the congress today is it has a Republican majority but it is definitely not a conservative majority. The RINO's are in charge. We shall have to see what this new congress does. I am hopeful that since Bush does not have to face reelection that he will push through more conservative ideas this term. Only time will tell.

One of the most important issues right now is judges. We know that George Bush will appoint the right kind of judges that will transform the courts for many years to come. Seeing Rehnquist at the inauguration tells us that Bush will be appointing a Supreme Court justice or two very soon. If Kerry won it would have been a disaster because we cannot have a conservative judge replaced by a liberal one. The balance of the court would swing way to the left if we lose even one conservative justice.

The twin towers were bombed while Clinton was in office. Back to recent history class with you!

but they werent destroyed, that was more of a warning shot ;)

To lie implies that he had foreknowledge that there were no WMD's. At the time the world believed Saddam had them. President Clinton, Tony Blair, the entire UN Security Council, even France and Russia thought they had them.

Then I have a very simple question, why didn’t France, Russia, China, Chile, Angola, etc. Vote to invade Iraq? Simple because none of them actually believed that Saddam posed a threat to anyone. This was a hyped up lie, it was a lie and we know it was a lie. For instance we know that Bush talked about the Yellow cake from Niger, when previous to that the CIA told him the information was not credible…alas a lie. Plus according to the UN in 1998 Iraq’s WMD programs were 98% destroyed…give me a break.

There were multiple reasons that taking Saddam out was justified.

I have yet to see one…

He was not complying with the 1st Gulf War cease fire agreement.

In which sense?

He defied multiple UN resolutions.

Israel has defied more then 60…shall we invade?

He did not cooperate with UN arms inspectors.

He did when it counted, let’s not forget that prior to war Saddam let the arms inspectors in, and guess what…they found no WMD…the administration said the inspectors were ineffective and taking too long…but in the end of the day there was nothing to be found.

He routinely fired on our aircraft in the no fly zone.

That wasn’t UN sponsored, the US was violating his air space…

He supported Palestinian suicide bombers and their families.

You support Israel…same shit from the same coin. Also we know that Saudi regime has given millions as well…where’s their invasion?

He harbored terrorists.

Abu Nidal…well let’s invade…frankly Pakistan is harbouring Osama…where’s that invasion?

He was a threat to the region and the stability of our oil supplies.

He didn’t even control 1/3 of his country…how was he a threat to anyone else? After 1991 Saddam realized that his imperialist dreams were over, and instead of trying to be Emir of Arabia, he just wanted to get stinking rich.

Even if he had no WMD's at the time of our invasion he could of acquired them very quickly.

Then why didn’t he genius?

He may very well of had them and shipped them out of buried them. WMD's was just one of the reasons. We were more that justified in taking him out.

Yes…oil…and spreading the PNAC doctrine to maintain the Arab Façade, stop being such a sheeple.

When The President is on vacation he is not really on vacation. He is just not at the White House. Everything he can do at the WH he can do at his ranch in Crawford.

Yah…like choke on a pretzel.

One of the most important issues right now is judges.

because that's how these fools get selected.

I too would love to see us get back to true conservative principles.

yea, the Homeland über alles ©1984 thing gets old, doesn't it?... you might want to check your skull for the tiny hole left by the implant process. I hear a small electric shock like a taser can sometimes short them out.

A heavy dose of mescaline works too.

http://www.thismodernworld.org/blog/split.jpg

This guy really nails it.

When I look around America's barrooms, church suppers, swap meets and strip clubs, I see that "the American people" like the way things are going. Or at least half of them do. They like World Championship Wrestling and Confederate flags and flat screen television and they like the idea of an American empire. "The people" don't give a rat's bunghole about social programs or the poor or other races or the planet or animals or anything else. They LIKE cheap gas and making life tough for queers. They LIKE chasing Thanksgiving Day Xmas sales. And when fascism comes, they will like that, too.

Moral values of course had jack to do with anything. What those people were voting for a couple of months ago was hatred of other human beings culturally unlike themselves, particularly gays and lesbians, but also non-born-again Christians. That's why Republicans got constitutional amendments banning same-sex marriage on the ballot in eleven states. They suspected the hate was there to be exploited. And it was, passing easily in nine of the eleven states. It was always about hating those who are different. Hating "the other.". .......

....I do not have to tell informed readers that the rest of the world has long been repulsed by this sort of American grotesquery, this darkly provincial, arrogant American spectacle. But some of the world still has difficulty admitting to what it observes: that Americans, have become belligerent, mean, and downright dangerous to world security and stability. For example, my English cousins, perhaps in an effort to be nice, tell me, "We don't hate you, but we hate your government." They echo many Europeans when they do so. Which is disingenuous on their part because, despite our crooked elections, government here is still elected by at least a plurality, and in many cases a majority, of voters. So you cannot piss on the elected government without hitting the people who elected it. Especially considering that a majority strongly support any and all of our government's wars.

Nevertheless, except for Israel perhaps, the world wants to hate America. Common sense tells them they should---hell, we're out of control. But unlike Americans, Europeans seem to have a difficult time letting themselves write off hundreds of millions of other people in one fell swoop. So they tell themselves that our morally corrupt administration is to blame for it all. BLOOOONNNK! Sorry folks, but no matter how you skin this woolybooger, our clown prince was elected with about half the popular vote, and he retains the open support of at least half the public. So if you hate Bush's policies, then you hate the 140 million Americans who continue to solidly back his policies. At the very least, you must hate about half of us. Hell, we hate'em too. Quit feeling so bad and admit that Americans have willingly elected a murderous gang of fascist pissbrains. Now doesn't that feel better?

http://www.counterpunch.com/bageant01082005.html

Heh, nation "split" whether Bush is a uniter or a divider? Wouldn't a 50% vote automatically mean he's a divider, as opposed to normal polls having to reach towards 100%?

- N

We have witnessed the most inspiring speech from anyone since the great speeches of Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and George Washington. What we heard today was a call for Freedom. Freedom for the World! Freedom for every nation! Freedom for every people! Freedom for all! Freedom for the strong and for the weak! Freedom for the oppressed! Freedom from tyranny and the shackles of government! That is the clarion call that President George W Bush graced the country and the world with on this day. His speech was not just directed to our country and our own concerns, but the welfare of the entire world. This speech should be carved on granite and held atop a high mountain for all eyes to see. The principles espoused this day by our President reiterated the very principles that this country was founded upon. George W. Bush showed the world why we are the beacon of hope. From this day forth our foreign policy is freedom for all, nothing more and nothing less! Thank you President George W. Bush for your wisdom and courage, and may God bless him and this land that we may realize the vision that was so eloquently delivered this great and wonderful day January 20, 2005.

is this a complete joke or what? :bugeye:

The principles espoused this day by our President reiterated the very principles that this country was founded upon.

what was America built on? what is its foundation? America started off as a place accidently disovered and then inhabitated by countless CRIMINALS from Europe. after the inhabitants were slaughtred, raped and looted the Europeans settled.

your countrys foundations are rape, murder, ethnic cleansing and so on.

From this day forth our foreign policy is freedom for all, nothing more and nothing less! Thank you President George W. Bush for your wisdom and courage, and may God bless him and this land that we may realize the vision that was so eloquently delivered this great and wonderful day January 20, 2005.

if that is your policy then why dont you stop your support for so many dictators why is it spening hundreds of millions EVERY week on an illegal war when people in Africa are dying literally at the rate of hundreds of thousands a week.

people are going permantly going blind because they cant afford 50p vaccines and America is lying about wanting to liberate people and help them.

does iraq want that liberation and freedom from America? have the people of Fallujah who as we speak now waiting in hour long queues to get their fingerprints and ID cards to enter their own city, got their freedom.?

Preacher X

In Iraq 80% of the population have registered to vote. They may top our own election in voter turnout. Yes the Iraqi people want freedom.

The people in Africa are starving because leftist and islamofacist regimes are killing thier own people. No aid that America sends will ever get to it's intended targets. The currupt governments will take it. They also take any medicine we send and sell it into the black market.

This country was founded on freedom. We escaped the cesspool of Europe and came here and created the greatest country ever conceived. America is freedom's greatest hope in the world. America ended slavery, the only places in the world that still has slavery is Africa. Isn't that ironic. And it's not white Europeans or Americans engaging in it.

If the war in Iraq is illegal as you say, why don't you go to the Whitehouse and do a citizens arrest. Lets see how far you get.

This country was founded on freedom. We escaped the cesspool of Europe and came here and created the greatest country ever conceived. America is freedom's greatest hope in the world. America ended slavery, the only places in the world that still has slavery is Africa. Isn't that ironic. And it's not white Europeans or Americans engaging in it.




Freedom for who? Native Americans? Blacks? Women? America was founded on what it still believes today.......Step on and exploit and take advantage of the little man to get what you want.....You say America ended slavery yet there is still Affirmative Action right? Why is that needed then? Why were blacks in the 60's still drinking out of "colored water fountains"? sitting in the back of buses? Other countries are as free as Americans with alot less crime and corruption and arent nearly as hated throughout the world

DOUBLE POST SORRY :bugeye:

I'm still waiting Brutus...don't be such a brute...

America ended slavery, the only places in the world that still has slavery is Africa. Isn't that ironic. And it's not white Europeans or Americans engaging in it.

You're still delusional, slavery still exists in the US and Europe, especially for the sex trade, and with illegal immigrants. There was a National Geographic article about that.

In Iraq 80% of the population have registered to vote. They may top our own election in voter turnout. Yes the Iraqi people want freedom.

They want anything but occupation, what if they vote for a theocracy with sharia law? Are they free to do that? Anyway, most will not even be able to make it to the polls even if they wanted to.



Didn't Bush give Saddam an ultimatum? That he should turn himself in, or we would invade? What if he did turn himself in? Then your "bringing freedom to Iraq" story wouldn't apply, would it? Same for Afghanistan.

Indeed, chances are that the Iraqi population will vote in a Iranian styled theocracy...freedom...yah to bite u in the arse. Like Spider said as well...if the US is SOOO interested in "freedom" then why does it support Libya, Qaddafi the "terrorist?", isn't freedom on the march? Or how about Uzbekistan? Or China with the world's worst human rights account? Freedom...yah in America its the freedom to ignore reality.

"Our hearts are burned," he said. And the wounds are something democracy can't heal. "How can we vote when we don't believe in what we are voting for?" he asked.

Ibrahim, Iraqi resident of Falluja

All I can say is for Ibrahim to nominate and vote for somebody else. If not this election, than next.

Made in America;
click (http://filmstripinternational.com/)

This is truly how many here feel.

Godless.

Other countries are as free as Americans with alot less crime and corruption and arent nearly as hated throughout the world

I know, that's something that bugs me about some people here. Damn, I've been sounding bitter lately.

- N

Dr. Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy during 1981-82. He was also Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review.


In the ranks of the new conservatives, however, I see and experience much hate. It comes to me in violently worded, ignorant and irrational emails from self-professed conservatives who literally worship George Bush. Even Christians have fallen into idolatry. There appears to be a large number of Americans who are prepared to kill anyone for George Bush.

The Iraqi War is serving as a great catharsis for multiple conservative frustrations: job loss, drugs, crime, homosexuals, pornography, female promiscuity, abortion, restrictions on prayer in public places, Darwinism and attacks on religion. Liberals are the cause. Liberals are against America. Anyone against the war is against America and is a liberal. "You are with us or against us."

This is the mindset of delusion, and delusion permits no facts or analysis. Blind emotion rules. Americans are right and everyone else is wrong. End of the debate.......

....Today it is liberals, not conservatives, who endeavor to defend civil liberties from the state. Conservatives have been won around to the old liberal view that as long as government power is in their hands, there is no reason to fear it or to limit it. Thus, the Patriot Act, which permits government to suspend a person's civil liberty by calling him a terrorist with or without proof. Thus, preemptive war, which permits the President to invade other countries based on unverified assertions.

There is nothing conservative about these positions. To label them conservative is to make the same error as labeling the 1930s German Brownshirts conservative.

American liberals called the Brownshirts "conservative," because the Brownshirts were obviously not liberal. They were ignorant, violent, delusional, and they worshipped a man of no known distinction. Brownshirts' delusions were protected by an emotional force field. Adulation of power and force prevented Brownshirts from recognizing implications for their country of their reckless doctrines.

Like Brownshirts, the new conservatives take personally any criticism of their leader and his policies. To be a critic is to be an enemy. I went overnight from being an object of conservative adulation to one of derision when I wrote that the US invasion of Iraq was a "strategic blunder."

It is amazing that only a short time ago the Bush administration and its supporters believed that all the US had to do was to appear in Iraq and we would be greeted with flowers. Has there ever been a greater example of delusion? Isn't this on a par with the Children's Crusade against the Saracens in the Middle Ages?

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=76&ItemID=7056

With an American economic collapse all but certain to happen (when I mean collapse it could be anything from a Great Depression, to a slow gradual decline but its happening), the American public might go the way of post-WWI Germany during the depression, hyper-polarization of the society, and the "winner" winning due to ineptitude, asssuming this already didn't happen in 2000, so in essence a proto-fascist American government being supported by the jingoistic idiots that we call the "new republican party", to be fair not all republicans are stupid, and many are just as appalled as others, but the morons have taken over the place. Also when I mean morons I mean those who support the genius' in the neo-conservative movenment, they are successfully blending in religion, with nationalism, and jingoism to stifle dissent, extreme marginalization of the left getting rid of real dialectical debate, and slowly concentrating power into their hands. If Americans don't do something soon, they wish Kerry was President.

This country was founded on freedom. We escaped the cesspool of Europe and came here and created the greatest country ever conceived. America is freedom's greatest hope in the world. America ended slavery, the only places in the world that still has slavery is Africa. Isn't that ironic. And it's not white Europeans or Americans engaging in it.


Ok, obviously you've been listening to some propaganda- thats completely wrong. France emancipated slaves back in the 1780's I believe, and the British Empire followed a number of years after. Europe freed their slaves much sooner than we did... much of the economic power of colonial America was in slaves. Mostly in the South, which remains to this day the stronghold of bigotry and ignorance.

Mostly in the South, which remains to this day the stronghold of bigotry and ignorance.

And the Republican party.

Ok, obviously you've been listening to some propaganda- thats completely wrong. France emancipated slaves back in the 1780's I believe, and the British Empire followed a number of years after. Europe freed their slaves much sooner than we did... much of the economic power of colonial America was in slaves. Mostly in the South, which remains to this day the stronghold of bigotry and ignorance.

Well, actually, France abolished slavery in 1794 during its revolution. However, Napoleon reinstated it. It was finally abolished again in 1848. Spain didn't abolish slavery until 1865, and didn't abolish it in some of its colonies like Puerto Rico and Cuba until the 1870s and 1880s. Portugal abolished it in 1876. Last time I looked, they were European.

Well, actually, France abolished slavery in 1794 during its revolution. However, Napoleon reinstated it. It was finally abolished again in 1848. Spain didn't abolish slavery until 1865, and didn't abolish it in some of its colonies like Puerto Rico and Cuba until the 1870s and 1880s. Portugal abolished it in 1876. Last time I looked, they were European.

Well, clearly France and Britain (the dominant european powers) still abolished slavery before America did, and with less fuss. Which contradicts Brutus' assertion. If we hadn't literally killed the southerners then who knows, they might have still kept it to this very day.

Well, France abolished slavery the first time following its revloution of the 3rd Estate, and in 1848 during the upheavals of the labor revolutions, so like America, it took a serious crisis within the country to end it both times. As far as your last comment, as a southerner, I say that slavery would have been doomed by the end of the 19th century at the latest.

America ended slavery, the only places in the world that still has slavery is Africa.
What? Which world do you live in!? America has made the world an enourmous market of slavery! America alone put dozens of dictators in many countries, including Saddam! Not to mention the fact that the globalization that the US so loves is just a politics of exploitation and exportation of poverty!!! Someone needs to make the products you consume, you know? And for those producst to be as cheap as they are for you, it measns that the peopkle that make those products receive almost nothing. Do you know how much the billions of chinese and other people that produce the stuff you consume receive!? Well, they receive less than they need to sustain their families! So they starve most of the time and work at least ten times as much as you do! So, guess who is promoting slavery!!?!?!?!?!

For a funny (in my opinion, moderator apparently doesn't agree) parody of Bush's inaugural address, see http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2005/012005.asp .

And it is spelled inane. I think someone woke up on the wrong side of bed this morning.

On a side note.... he spent... what? 20 million on that stupid speech. While his initial contribution to the tsunami disaster was of 4 million bucks. He did raise the figure to some 300 millon; but in comparison, he spent trillions in Iraq and the percentage of the GDP is still way below 1%. :eek: :bugeye:

Of course they get out of that by pointing out that most of the expenses were payed for by private contributors. Who would never, ever expect to be paid back in any way for their millions of dollars in cash spent on this obscene party.

For a funny (in my opinion, moderator apparently doesn't agree) parody of Bush's inaugural address, see http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2005/012005.asp .

And it is spelled inane. I think someone woke up on the wrong side of bed this morning.
Huuummm... I wonder what goofy removed from my post.....
At least he didn't completely censored it. Goofy doesn't really annoy me as a moderator, not at all. Just Xev does an awful job.... :D

Of course they get out of that by pointing out that most of the expenses were payed for by private contributors. Who would never, ever expect to be paid back in any way for their millions of dollars in cash spent on this obscene party.
Huummm... they were probably from oil companies....... :rolleyes: :D
I wonder if it is possible to get a list of the contributors....

I don't know if it is complete. http://www.inaugural05.com/donors/

Later Wednesday, Bush was making a dash through three "candlelight dinners" with the heaviest donors to the inauguration. All were closed to journalists.

Tickets for the candlelight dinners were distributed to those who chipped in $250,000 or $100,000 to the inauguration. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) and their wives were attending the candlelight dinners.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050119/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

If a Democrat were elected in these times, I would resent this just as much. Both parties are tainted by our system of selling influence. But at least the Democrats aren't so blatant about it.

Huummm... they were probably from oil companies....... :rolleyes: :D
I wonder if it is possible to get a list of the contributors....
copied from a post i made on another forum:

"Houston energy billionaire Rich Kinder and his wife contributed $250,000."

"Southern Co., an energy firm, gave $250,000 to the committee. "

"26 financial services firms donating more than $4 million. The industry could reap a windfall if Congress approves Bush's plan for private investment accounts as part of Social Security. It also has an interest in Bush's goal of extending the tax cuts of his first term."

"As of Jan. 14, 42 corporate contributors chipped in $250,000 each, the self-imposed maximum donation accepted by the committee. Unlike campaign contributions, there's no legal limit to how much a donor can give." - (So responsible of them to have ethical limitations.)

"Ed Lewis, a spokesman for Ford Motor Co., conceded that the big automaker had a number of interests in Congress and the Bush administration. He said Ford executives would receive access to many inaugural events because of the company's $250,000 donation. But he scoffed at the notion that helping to pay for the inauguration would help buy influence.

"We get our phone calls returned," Lewis said. "That's not a big issue for us."" - That's funny, Bush has never returned any of my numerous phone calls to the White House...

District of Columbia tax payers (who voted 9-1 against Bush) - $17.3 million
"There's no taxpayer money involved in this" - President George W. Bush on the cost of his coronation (Thu, Jan 13.)


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0117-03.htm
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050114/ap_on_go_pr_wh/inaugural_price_tag

If the speech of GW bush is inspiring to you... it should be.. too bad he dosnt write or meen it in any good way.

If you actually beleive it... you have an IQ equal to a cabbage...