Well, that's kinda everyone's fault for not making something to talk about. Does anyone have opposing philosophies or ideas? Any relevance as to why Yin and Yang really does make so much sense?
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Yin and Yang
- Thread starter seekeroftheway
- Start date
Sure they can. Look at the star wars vs star trek thread in sci fi. They've been argued for a LONG time now. Besides, didn't ask for argument, we asked for discussion.
Since when do yin and yang mix and form something new?
seekeroftheway said:Sure they can. Look at the star wars vs star trek thread in sci fi. They've been argued for a LONG time now. Besides, didn't ask for argument, we asked for discussion.
I think you got the wrong idea from what i said. I meant that there is not much that you can say to deny the fact that opposites exist.
When did we try to say that opposites DIDN'T exist?
leopold99 said:the way i understand it is yin and yang are opposites
one cannot exist without the other
Exactly. That's why the idea of being pure and totally good in some faiths is impossible.
Good is not evil, but without evil, good is not.
I'm sorry that I read the whole thread. I usually do it out of respect for the thread starter, and other participants, so I do not needlessly repeat. Whew! I wonder if all the ugliness would be forthcomming from a discussion between participants in the same room, within arm's reach?
Well, to the subject;
From my perspective, Yin/Yang is strictly metaphor, as all words must be. I think the 'Western' perspective (Greek philosophers were so off base! and that is the foundation of 'western science', IMHO; either true or false, either this or that.. all false dichotomies..) is characterized in seeing yin/yang as opposites.
Current understanding (on the 'front') of the old concept of 'cause and effect' has evolved; not one thing being 'caused' by another, but that the two apparently different 'events' (of cause and effect) are more clearly seen as two aspects of the same event. A 'unity' seen from different perspectives; the blind men and the elephant...
Similarly, I feel that the insistance of refering to 'aspects of the whole' as opposites is not only error, but will not lead to true understanding. Yin/yang aren't 'opposites' any more than a red shirt with bluejeans are opposites. They are COMPLIMENTARY views of a unity; seperated (artificially) and given opposing descriptions and existences is faultily falling for the notion of exclusive existence of discrete 'things', as 'perception' illusorily suggests.
Yin/Yang is a metaphor of the apparent duality of all that is in 'existence'. Apparent, because the enlightened (and QM) know that 'all is One'. Part of the game of life that we play involves the seperation of all that we learn as youngsters. To be a player in this (adult-erated) dream, things must be treated as 'discrete' items. As babies, we see our world as a seamless whole 'tapestry'. Then we become 'adult-erated' into the blind memes of the masses. Then, of course, there are various methodologies (science, religion, ...whatever 'path' one is on in honestly attempting to find Truth) of regaining the clarity of vision we had as infants. (being 'born again' is a metaphor for this process... there are many..)
I feel that it is error to take the metaphor of Yin/Yang and tear apart that COMPLIMENTARY UNITY into a slew of various definitions and meanings and seeing them as 'opposites'. That would be missing the point completely! We fall into the same perceptual trap with everything else. The concept of Yin/Yang points this out, eventually.
Opposites do not have any independent existence other than subjective artificial conceptualization, delusion. From the error of 'opposites' we get unfortunate results; war, violence, theft, rape, ad nauseum.. (how can you 'hurt' someone when they are a part of YOU?!)
Compliments, not opposites; a world of difference!
Thank you.
*__-
Well, to the subject;
From my perspective, Yin/Yang is strictly metaphor, as all words must be. I think the 'Western' perspective (Greek philosophers were so off base! and that is the foundation of 'western science', IMHO; either true or false, either this or that.. all false dichotomies..) is characterized in seeing yin/yang as opposites.
Current understanding (on the 'front') of the old concept of 'cause and effect' has evolved; not one thing being 'caused' by another, but that the two apparently different 'events' (of cause and effect) are more clearly seen as two aspects of the same event. A 'unity' seen from different perspectives; the blind men and the elephant...
Similarly, I feel that the insistance of refering to 'aspects of the whole' as opposites is not only error, but will not lead to true understanding. Yin/yang aren't 'opposites' any more than a red shirt with bluejeans are opposites. They are COMPLIMENTARY views of a unity; seperated (artificially) and given opposing descriptions and existences is faultily falling for the notion of exclusive existence of discrete 'things', as 'perception' illusorily suggests.
Yin/Yang is a metaphor of the apparent duality of all that is in 'existence'. Apparent, because the enlightened (and QM) know that 'all is One'. Part of the game of life that we play involves the seperation of all that we learn as youngsters. To be a player in this (adult-erated) dream, things must be treated as 'discrete' items. As babies, we see our world as a seamless whole 'tapestry'. Then we become 'adult-erated' into the blind memes of the masses. Then, of course, there are various methodologies (science, religion, ...whatever 'path' one is on in honestly attempting to find Truth) of regaining the clarity of vision we had as infants. (being 'born again' is a metaphor for this process... there are many..)
I feel that it is error to take the metaphor of Yin/Yang and tear apart that COMPLIMENTARY UNITY into a slew of various definitions and meanings and seeing them as 'opposites'. That would be missing the point completely! We fall into the same perceptual trap with everything else. The concept of Yin/Yang points this out, eventually.
Opposites do not have any independent existence other than subjective artificial conceptualization, delusion. From the error of 'opposites' we get unfortunate results; war, violence, theft, rape, ad nauseum.. (how can you 'hurt' someone when they are a part of YOU?!)
Compliments, not opposites; a world of difference!
Thank you.
*__-
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nameless said:Yin/Yang is a metaphor of the apparent duality of all that is in 'existence'. Apparent, because the enlightened (and QM) know that 'all is One'. Part of the game of life that we play involves the seperation of all that we learn as youngsters.
if there is no difference between man and woman for example, why do we see the difference?
To be a player in this (adult-erated) dream, things must be treated as 'discrete' items. As babies, we see our world as a seamless whole 'tapestry'. Then we become 'adult-erated' into the blind memes of the masses.
why do we become adult-erated into the blind memes of the masses?
Then, of course, there are various methodologies (science, religion, ...whatever 'path' one is on in honestly attempting to find Truth) of regaining the clarity of vision we had as infants. (being 'born again' is a metaphor for this process... there are many..)
wrong, all methodologies lead you even more astray!!
Opposites do not have any independent existence other than subjective artificial conceptualization, delusion. From the error of 'opposites' we get unfortunate results; war, violence, theft, rape, ad nauseum.. (how can you 'hurt' someone when they are a part of YOU?!)
why is the delusion of duality created in the first place?
Compliments, not opposites; a world of difference!
i see no difference between the words opposite and complementary, they're complementary.
Perceptive appearances are always antithetical to 'Reality/Truth'. If you 'saw' pink elephants on pogo-sticks, would you accept that as sufficient evidence to include it into your 'world-view'? In one sense, a relatively immediate and nontheless superficial perspective, of course there are 'differences'. These apparent differences are necessary to 'play the game' of existence. On deeper, foundational levels, things are mighty 'different' than they 'appear' on the surface (QM perspective, for example).c7ityi_ said:if there is no difference between man and woman for example, why do we see the difference?
Homogeneity? We are 'taught' the 'rules'; taught the local 'language of (describing/defining) 'reality'. The local concensus perspective is shoved down our throats as soon possible by parents, teachers, friends, enemies, society at large, all methods of communication indoctrinate us away from our natural understanding; we become adults, an accepted member of our society, after we have been properly 'adult-erated'. We are brainwashed, thoroughly. There seems to remain, in some, a niggling memory, or perhaps an instinct, that 'this' is not really 'reality' and we, hence, begin the long solitary road into Truth.why do we become adult-erated into the blind memes of the masses?
No, perhaps you missed where I mentioned that all methodologies, all 'tools', we use in our search for Truth must, at some point, be discarded to be able to 'proceed' beyond that point.wrong, all methodologies lead you even more astray!!
Delusion is the believing that 'illusion', 'fiction', is 'reality'. It is the 'belief' of the realistic depiction of 'Truth/Reality' by our perceptions and conceptions.why is the delusion of duality created in the first place?
Perhaps if you looked in the dictionary...i see no difference between the words opposite and complementary, they're complementary.
Inherent in 'opposite' is 'opposition', 'opposing'. If I 'oppose' you, there will eventually be trouble (fight, bickering, war.. Just look at the way most threads eventually end!).
If I 'complimented' your efforts and desires, we both gain and evolve, as 'opposed' to the de-volution of 'opposition'.
nameless said:If you 'saw' pink elephants on pogo-sticks, would you accept that as sufficient evidence to include it into your 'world-view'?
y-yes..
We are brainwashed, thoroughly. There seems to remain, in some, a niggling memory, or perhaps an instinct, that 'this' is not really 'reality' and we, hence, begin the long solitary road into Truth.
thihi.., why is truth not here now... why do things have to exist... why is not nothingness here for me...
because yin and yang are opposites... though they're also complementary...
Delusion is the believing that 'illusion', 'fiction', is 'reality'.
wow, you sound like genep cuz you said fiction.
Inherent in 'opposite' is 'opposition', 'opposing'. If I 'oppose' you, there will eventually be trouble (fight, bickering, war.. Just look at the way most threads eventually end!).
yes... it's because yin and yang are opposites, though they're a bit complementary too...
like with a man and a woman... it ends in trouble, fight, right?
so yin and yang are opposites? they oppose each other...
thus, the world was created, because they weren't entirely complementary, a divine child was born from that imbalance, the dualistic unity...
infinite paradox reality.
Now, if I were to back up and look at both of your persectives here, I would soon find that both of them are inherent in themselves. Opposition is the opposite of unity, and that concept is demonstrated in yin and yang as well. Demonstrated in that opposites, in opposing, are united, and therein must exist in one another.
That honest and apparently tentative response makes the point here. Sensory information, perception, is 'unreliable' at best.c7ityi_ said:y-yes..
I do not know what your definition of truth is.why is truth not here now...
"There are small truths and there are great Truths. The opposite of a small truth is obviously false. The opposite of a great Truth is also True." - Neils Bohr
There is no 'have to'.. If you can conceive of something, it has 'existence', if nowhere other than in your mind.why do things have to exist...
You, dreamer, are part of the 'dream'.why is not nothingness here for me...
All depends on 'perspective', eh?because yin and yang are opposites... though they're also complementary...
Our 'reality' is created by our (learned) language (and it's concurrent limitations). Hence the major difference between 'opposite' and 'complement' in the 'world' that each bring into existence, one a Hell, one a Heaven...infinite paradox reality.
There is no 'paradox' in Truth/Reality; paradox 'exists' within a confused mind only.
you spell it totally wrong, it's Jeet Kune Do.
but infinity (nothing) is the reality.. but it can't exist because it's infinite... there can be no end, infinity can never be, but it is...
Infinity (whole) cannot be, so, infinity is a limit, a potential revealing itself little by little. The fact that infinity cannot be but is necessary creates the universe and all its laws, both 'physical' and 'spiritual'.
nameless said:There is no 'paradox' in Truth/Reality; paradox 'exists' within a confused mind only.
but infinity (nothing) is the reality.. but it can't exist because it's infinite... there can be no end, infinity can never be, but it is...
Infinity (whole) cannot be, so, infinity is a limit, a potential revealing itself little by little. The fact that infinity cannot be but is necessary creates the universe and all its laws, both 'physical' and 'spiritual'.
I study choy li fut, but martial arts is still martial arts, eh?
Thank you for pointing out my totally misspelled typo of the missing 'e'. Other than correcting my spelling (totally unnecessary) did you grok my meaning in my useage of the term?c7ityi_ said:but infinity (nothing) is the reality.. but it can't exist because it's infinite... there can be no end, infinity can never be, but it is....
Perhaps you haven't read where I explained that 'existence' was 'inversely proportional' to Reality/Truth. Anything that 'exists' is necessarilly temporal. That is a necesary quality of existence. Truth/Reality is 'timeless'. Never the twain shall meet. No paradox. I realize that most people use 'reality' interchangeably with 'existence'. (Maybe it is a small 'r' 'reality' thing.) That is slop and error.
In other words, there is nothing of which you can conceive that is Truth/Reality and Truth/Reality cannot be concepts, has no 'existence'.
The truth that can be spoken is not the Truth;
the tao that can be conceived is not the Tao!
Certainly is, an an elegant and powerful 'path' into Truth/Reality.seekeroftheway said:I study choy li fut, but martial arts is still martial arts, eh?
nameless said:Thank you for pointing out my totally misspelled typo of the missing 'e'. Other than correcting my spelling (totally unnecessary) did you grok my meaning in my useage of the term?
lol, i was "joking". you should get it. i have like 399 more spelling mistakes than you.
but you're also joking, you're thanking me, yet you say it was unnecessary.
/jk