Why is it that of all the representatives of the animal world, speech has developed only in humans?

[Pinball1970]

Нет, не догадки. Это абсолютно физически ощущаемое чувство. Оно у многих развито в той или иной степени. Только я не знаю, это атавизм, или наоборот развитие дополнительных опций, если можно так выразиться.

No. None of those claims have ever been scientifically verified.

 

[ольга]

No. None of those claims have ever been scientifically verified.

Конечно не было. Чтобы его подтвердить, вам, или вашим близким нужно сделать что то ощутимо плохое. Кто же на это пойдёт добровольно?

 

[Pinball1970]

Конечно не было. Чтобы его подтвердить, вам, или вашим близким нужно сделать что то ощутимо плохое. Кто же на это пойдёт добровольно?

Why something bad? My sister could not conceive for years, so when she rang me at work to tell me she was pregnant, I thought something had happened to my mother.
I had no idea.
When my aunt died I had no idea.
When my second cousin got cancer I had no idea.
When my mentor and father figure died I had no idea.

Telepathy ESP, is not a thing, it is like astrology.

 

[ольга]

Why something bad? My sister could not conceive for years, so when she rang me at work to tell me she was pregnant, I thought something had happened to my mother.
I had no idea.
When my aunt died I had no idea.
When my second cousin got cancer I had no idea.
When my mentor and father figure died I had no idea.

Telepathy ESP, is not a thing, it is like astrology.

Ну, просто Вы не интуит. Вообще, обычно это наследственное. Если у Вас в семье не было интуитов, то вряд ли они и появятся.

 

[Pinball1970]

Ну, просто Вы не интуит. Вообще, обычно это наследственное. Если у Вас в семье не было интуитов, то вряд ли они и появятся.

According to what scientific publication?

 

[ольга]

According to what scientific publication?

Даже если такие исследования проводились(а они проводились), никто не будет публиковать их в открытом доступе. Вообще, вам нужно понимать, что никто не будет публиковать в открытом доступе никакие новые знания. Потому что знание - это оружие, и все это понимают.

 

[TheVat]

We would not have been able to evolve to the level we have today if we had not had speech. I do not understand why other animals could not have evolved in the same way. After all, we evolved in the same natural environment.

But occupy different ecological niches.

Ecological niche - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Different niches have different selective pressures.

 

[ольга]

But occupy different ecological niches.

Ecological niche - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Different niches have different selective pressures.

Приматы тоже?

 

[ольга]

According to what scientific publication?

Козырев начинал проводить такие исследования. Я как то общалась с человеком, который знает об этом больше. Они ещё проводили опыты с колониями бактерий, и выяснили, что те мгновенно реагируют на изменения на Солнце, ещё до того, как сигнал достигнет Земли.

 

[Pinball1970]

Даже если такие исследования проводились(а они проводились), никто не будет публиковать их в открытом доступе. Вообще, вам нужно понимать, что никто не будет публиковать в открытом доступе никакие новые знания. Потому что знание - это оружие, и все это понимают.

Olga, if you want to know what is real, you open up your claims to the scientific method.
There has been some brilliant scientists from your homeland. Real genius, talent and character.
This is not a thing. We are talking about speech with mammals.
This is a science site.

 

[ольга]

Olga, if you want to know what is real, you open up your claims to the scientific method.
There has been some brilliant scientists from your homeland. Real genius, talent and character.
This is not a thing. We are talking about speech with mammals.
This is a science site.

О млекопитающих: у Вас был когда-нибудь опыт общения с собаками, например? Моя собака умела приносить тапки по команде, причём умела их ещё и разыскать. Говоришь ей: "неси тапки", и она несёт. Значит, она тоже, как и человек, умела ассоциировать определённые слова с определёнными предметами. Но почему тогда речь развилась только у человека? И благодаря этому умению человек смог обмениваться различной информацией с другими людьми, что и поспособствовало нашему развитию. Почему же у других животных речь не развилась, хотя мыслят они похожим образом?

 

[DaveC426913]

But why then did speech develop only in humans?

All we can say is that it developed in humans before any other species - we were first past the post.

This is part of the problem with interpolating from a single data point. For all we know, whales or birds may have developed speech if they'd had more time before humans came along. Now that humans are a primary force in reshaping the planet's ecosystems, selection pressures will likely have changed in all other animals to prioritize adaptation to an anthropocentric world (loss of habitat being a major factor).

And thanks to this ability, humans were able to exchange various information with other people, which contributed to our development. Why did speech not develop in other animals, although they think in a similar way?

Well, it did. Many species hunt in packs (which is where we think speech had its origins). Wild dogs, dolphins and whales seem to vocalize as part of pack hunting. It might be just a few tens of thousand of years before these species could generalize their speech tools - again, if human don't short circuit the whole process.

 

[Pinball1970]

Козырев начинал проводить такие исследования. Я как то общалась с человеком, который знает об этом больше. Они ещё проводили опыты с колониями бактерий, и выяснили, что те мгновенно реагируют на изменения на Солнце, ещё до того, как сигнал достигнет Земли.

You started out by asking why can't monkeys speak. They DO communicate did you read the links I provided Olga?
This is not magic it is Evolution.
The Evolution that furnished Homo sapiens with speech at some point in our history gave birds flight, are you amazed by that?
A cheetah can run at incredible speeds and Whales can dive to unfathomable depths (a little joke there) why be amazed just at speech?
The interesting question is never "why," when it comes to science. How? When? What were the Evolutionary pressures to make this happen? Far more interesting.
Why can we metabolise milk? No, the questions should be when, about 10,000 years ago, why? A gene that was switched off was switched on (details not important) What was the advantage to that individual descendants? Another dietary resource.

 

[ольга]

All we can say is that it developed in humans before any other species - we were first past the post.

This is part of the problem with interpolating from a single data point. For all we know, whales or birds may have developed speech if they'd had more time before humans came along. Now that humans are a primary force in reshaping the planet's ecosystems, selection pressures will likely have changed in all other animals to prioritize adaptation to an anthropocentric world (loss of habitat being a major factor).


Well, it did. Many species hunt in packs (which is where we think speech had its origins). Wild dogs, dolphins and whales seem to vocalize as part of pack hunting. It might be just a few tens of thousand of years before these species could generalize their speech tools - again, if human don't short circuit the whole process.

Разве другие виды млекопитающих появились позже человека? Про птиц уже и не говорю, они так вообще являются потомками динозавров, и появились явно раньше человека. Кстати, попугаи и вороны прекрасно разговаривают. А обезьяна может сразу сказать сколько предметов находится на столе, не пересчитывая их. Но интеллект ни у попугая, ни у обезьяны, не похож на человеческий.

 

[DaveC426913]

Did other species of mammals appear later than humans?

Did other mammals speciate more recently than humans speciated from their predecessors? Sure. Some insects, fish (eg. cichlids from Lake Tanganyika), domestic cats.


I mean, it's a continuum. It's not like a human popped out of the womb of an A. afarensis.

I won't even mention birds, they are actually descendants of dinosaurs and clearly appeared earlier than humans.

Well, everybody's a descendant of someone. The ancestors of humans were shrewlike mammals and they were around during the dinosaur era too.

By the way, parrots and crows speak very well.

They imitate very well. That's different from communicating. Being able to imitate sounnds - evne complex soujdns - isn't necessarily th same as knowing what they are saying.

And a monkey can immediately tell how many objects are on the table without counting them.

Yes. They are pretty advanced.

But neither a parrot nor a monkey has intelligence similar to a human's.

Tue, although we are baised toward "human" intelligence. We are beginning to wonder if perhaps there are other types of intelligence.

 

[ольга]

You started out by asking why can't monkeys speak. They DO communicate did you read the links I provided Olga?
This is not magic it is Evolution.
The Evolution that furnished Homo sapiens with speech at some point in our history gave birds flight, are you amazed by that?
A cheetah can run at incredible speeds and Whales can dive to unfathomable depths (a little joke there) why be amazed just at speech?
The interesting question is never "why," when it comes to science. How? When? What were the Evolutionary pressures to make this happen? Far more interesting.
Why can we metabolise milk? No, the questions should be when, about 10,000 years ago, why? A gene that was switched off was switched on (details not important) What was the advantage to that individual descendants? Another dietary resource.

Я читала вашу статью. Но не только обезьяны знают друг друга по именам, собаки и коты тоже прекрасно различают имена. Они отзываются каждый именно на свои клички. Это хорошо видно в стае. За кошками особенно интересно наблюдать, мне иногда кажется, что они телепаты, потому что я часто вижу такую картину: две кошки сидят друг напротив друга, и не смотрят напрямую одна на другую, но видно, что у них при этом происходит напряжённый мыслительный процесс, они могут прижимать уши, могут неожиданно наброситься одна на другую, или наоборот, мирно разойтись. Как будто одна другую оскорбила, или наоборот извинилась. Коты находят дорогу домой за тысячи километров, без всякого навигатора. Ещё они чувствуют собственную смерть, и уходят из дома. Ну и практически все животные беспокойно ведут себя перед различными стихийными бедствиями. Но большинство людей такими способностями не обладают, они у них либо не развились, либо наоборот, почему то атрофировались.

 

[DaveC426913]

I read your article. But not only monkeys know each other by name, dogs and cats also distinguish names very well. Each of them responds to their own nicknames. This is clearly visible in a pack. Cats are especially interesting to watch, sometimes it seems to me that they are telepathic, because I often see this picture: two cats are sitting opposite each other, and do not look directly at each other, but it is clear that they are having a tense thought process, they can press their ears, can suddenly pounce on each other, or, on the contrary, peacefully disperse. As if one insulted the other, or, on the contrary, apologized.

Many domestic mammals are excellent non-verbal communicators.

 

[ольга]

Did other mammals speciate more recently than humans speciated from their predecessors? Sure. Some insects, fish (eg. cichlids from Lake Tanganyika), domestic cats.


I mean, it's a continuum. It's not like a human popped out of the womb of an A. afarensis.


Well, everybody's a descendant of someone. The ancestors of humans were shrewlike mammals and they were around during the dinosaur era too.


They imitate very well. That's different from communicating. Being able to imitate sounnds - evne complex soujdns - isn't necessarily th same as knowing what they are saying.


Yes. They are pretty advanced.


Tue, although we are baised toward "human" intelligence. We are beginning to wonder if perhaps there are other types of intelligence.

Обладают ли деревья интеллектом? Если одно дерево в лесу погибает от какого-либо вредителя, то другие деревья начинают выделять вещества, которые этого вредителя убивают или отталкивают. Как они это делают?

 

[ольга]

Many domesrtic mammals are excellent non-verbal communicators.

Интересно, что они как бы "слушают" друг друга, ведут какой то диалог, это видно по их мимике, но при этом не смотрят одна на другую.

 

[DaveC426913]

Are trees intelligent?

No.

If one tree in a forest is killed by a pest, the other trees begin to secrete substances that kill or repel the pest. How do they do this?

Chemical cues via evolution. Dies not require intelligence.