Trump 2.0
- Thread starter James R
- Start date
You don't know much about anything do you. Stop listening to your priests, they will make sure to keep you stupid.
And you're absolutely sure that's why Democrats lost. Wow, what a genius. You should be running the Democratic campaign next election and bring all that "positive advertising", whatever it is.
"Властители судеб,
Опять между собой,
Деритесь, милые,-
Я отвергаю бой.
На поводу у вас
Не буду никогда-
Из разных мы конюшен,
Господа.
Овёс отборный - вам,
Мне - половодье трав,
Дождь с солнцем пополам,
Веселье в пух и прах.
И не меняюсь я,
Хотя бегут года,-
Из разных мы конюшен,
Господа."
Это слова одной русской песни.
The percentage you're paying is too high priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
But today you just read that the man was shot dead
By a gun that didn't make any noise
But it wasn't the bullet that laid him to rest, was
The low spark of high-heeled boys
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
But today you just read that the man was shot dead
By a gun that didn't make any noise
But it wasn't the bullet that laid him to rest, was
The low spark of high-heeled boys
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
I think they still need to get those court orders. The legal system is not dead yet and Trump's recent apparent attempt to ignore SCOTUS has yet to be smoked out fully. There will be uproar if he really does ignore their rulings.
Judging by the European experience, the only way you will get rid of these people is by using what remains of the electoral system, however handicapped. It worked in Poland and may yet work in Hungary, where there have been popular demonstrations against Orban. Trump's tariff fiasco offers an opportunity to build a groundswell of broadly based opposition.
Giving up and wringing one's hands is what they did in Germany in the 1930s. It's what these goons count on.
P.S. But from what you say, I now understand the significance of the demand that universities prohibit the wearing of masks at demonstrations. That should obviously be resisted, if MAGA types can use it to harass individuals.
Good Lord! Sources seem to suggest that a UK/US trade deal will only be possible if the UK roll back on its hate-speech laws - you know, those that protect LGBTQ+ and other minorities (and, well, everyone) from hate-speech. The UK seems to already be willing to drop the digital services tax (booo!) in order to secure a deal, but seems Vance is claiming the roll-back of hate-speech must happen, or no deal! They're pushing it as "no free speech, no deal" to make it seem that the UK is somehow curtailing "free speech" with the laws on hate-speech. But we're not.
As an analogy, imagine that it's legal to throw spears at each other. This is "free speech". Everyone can do it, and there's no restriction on it.
In the UK, we ban the use of poison tips on those spears. So it's not the throwing of the weapon that's curtailed, but what's on the spear. This is what our laws on "hate speech" are doing.
In the US they see "free speech" as the right to not only throw spears but for those spears to have anything strapped to them, be it poison, explosives, diseases, etc.
It's ironic that they have free-speech but with no such restrictions as to what it can entail, yet they have the right to bear arms but limit those to certain weapons (e.g. no explosives, no nuclear weapons, no chemical weapons, no machine-guns etc). That's all we're doing in the UK with regard "free speech" - not limiting the ability one has to speak freely, but limiting the harm that one can inflict with it.
So, no, Mr. Starmer, don't do it. Don't compromise on this. Don't be weak. Don't kowtow to the Trump administration, the Trump agenda, when it goes against what we in the UK believe in.
And Vance, with all the respect that you clearly deserve: fuck off.
www.independent.co.uk
As an analogy, imagine that it's legal to throw spears at each other. This is "free speech". Everyone can do it, and there's no restriction on it.
In the UK, we ban the use of poison tips on those spears. So it's not the throwing of the weapon that's curtailed, but what's on the spear. This is what our laws on "hate speech" are doing.
In the US they see "free speech" as the right to not only throw spears but for those spears to have anything strapped to them, be it poison, explosives, diseases, etc.
It's ironic that they have free-speech but with no such restrictions as to what it can entail, yet they have the right to bear arms but limit those to certain weapons (e.g. no explosives, no nuclear weapons, no chemical weapons, no machine-guns etc). That's all we're doing in the UK with regard "free speech" - not limiting the ability one has to speak freely, but limiting the harm that one can inflict with it.
So, no, Mr. Starmer, don't do it. Don't compromise on this. Don't be weak. Don't kowtow to the Trump administration, the Trump agenda, when it goes against what we in the UK believe in.
And Vance, with all the respect that you clearly deserve: fuck off.
Starmer told to accept Trump ‘free speech’ agenda to win trade deal
‘Good chance’ of agreement, says JD Vance – but sources say his concerns over Britain’s hate speech laws ‘are still a red line’
www.independent.co.uk
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Harvard are obviously no slouches regarding the Law and also have significant independent funds behind them, 50 billion dollar endowment.
There is a lawsuit from the American Association of University Professors on Friday challenging the cuts.
“Harvard stood up today for the integrity, values, and freedoms that serve as the foundation of higher education,” said Anurima Bhargava, one of the alumni behind the letter. “Harvard reminded the world that learning, innovation and transformative growth will not yield to bullying and authoritarian whims.”
Trump officials cut billions in Harvard funds after university defies demands
Education department says $2.3bn in funds to be frozen after university rejects slew of demands as political ploy
www.theguardian.com
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
According to what I have read, it has been made clear that this is a trade deal and none of this stuff will be even considered by the British government.Good Lord! Sources seem to suggest that a UK/US trade deal will only be possible if the UK roll back on its hate-speech laws - you know, those that protect LGBTQ+ and other minorities (and, well, everyone) from hate-speech. The UK seems to already be willing to drop the digital services tax (booo!) in order to secure a deal, but seems Vance is claiming the roll-back of hate-speech must happen, or no deal! They're pushing it as "no free speech, no deal" to make it seem that the UK is somehow curtailing "free speech" with the laws on hate-speech. But we're not.
As an analogy, imagine that it's legal to throw spears at each other. This is "free speech". Everyone can do it, and there's no restriction on it.
In the UK, we ban the use of poison tips on those spears. So it's not the throwing of the weapon that's curtailed, but what's on the spear. This is what our laws on "hate speech" are doing.
In the US they see "free speech" as the right to not only throw spears but for those spears to have anything strapped to them, be it poison, explosives, diseases, etc.
It's ironic that they have free-speech but with no such restrictions as to what it can entail, yet they have the right to bear arms but limit those to certain weapons (e.g. no explosives, no nuclear weapons, no chemical weapons, no machine-guns etc). That's all we're doing in the UK with regard "free speech" - not limiting the ability one has to speak freely, but limiting the harm that one can inflict with it.
So, no, Mr. Starmer, don't do it. Don't compromise on this. Don't be weak. Don't kowtow to the Trump administration, the Trump agenda, when it goes against what we in the UK believe in.
And Vance, with all the respect that you clearly deserve: fuck off.
Starmer told to accept Trump ‘free speech’ agenda to win trade deal
‘Good chance’ of agreement, says JD Vance – but sources say his concerns over Britain’s hate speech laws ‘are still a red line’
But Trump has now a weaker hand than he thinks in any case, having already been told to fuck off by the bond markets.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
I would gladly pay more if it means Starmer tells Trump to stick his hateful, fascist policies up his arse.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
Quite. Similar sentiments are abroad around the world now. From Canada to Australia, right wing politicians who thought it smart to ape Trump are finding their popularity collapsing. Our own Kemi “The Olufant” Badenough and “Frog Features” Farage are struggling now to distance themselves from Trumpiness.
TheVat
Registered Senior Member
In death grip of monster project this week so I'll just say: damn right!
I recently watched a clip from Bill Maher's stupid podcast in which he interviewed Tom Green. Green, who is Canadian, was talking about Canada's prohibitions on hate-speech, and Maher, in characteristic fashion, chastised Green for "(not knowing) what free speech really is" and then he referenced the Skokie Affair and described that as real free speech--the freedom for Nazis to march through a Jewish neighborhood (with a lot of Holocaust survivors) in Skokie, Illinois. Wonderful stuff.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
But I think there is some pushback now, at least on the appalling treatment of this guy who was wrongly deported to prison in El Salvador. I saw a clip of a very angry town hall meeting with Sen. Grassley (?) of Ohio, in which the people present - mainly Republican voters, one presumes - were demanding that the government get this guy back. For Trump, the refusal to lift a finger is of course deliberate. Performative cruelty is what he likes, as an exercise in pure animal dominance. So the prospect of an admittedly innocent man locked up in jail for ever, with his wife and children back in the USA, gives him a hard-on. But it may start to revolt most people, now that they see it in action.
To reiterate, I think Trump is quite significantly weakened by first the Musk business and a fortiori the tariff fiasco and people - and institutions - are starting to voice their objections. I understand there is now a major Washington law firm taking up the case of both this guy and the universities. Some high profile public shaming of the administration.
Maybe I was wrong to think the US people voted for fascism: perhaps, after all, they simply did not realise, or believe, that is what they would get.
Do not under any circumstances underestimate the stupidity of the American. Correction, there are Americans and there are Magamericans. Americans knew full well we were gonna get fascism. Magamericans didn't care, as long as they knew they owned the libs. Trump is the second coming of Jesus for Magamericans, and many believe he will bring about the end times, which they are gleefully awaiting. The end of the world is exactly what they want.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
Yes, no doubt the hard core MAGA people will be like the Branch Davidians, at that unimprovably named town of Wacko - In Texas, naturally.
But they are a fairly small minority of voters. I was much encouraged by these old guys and gals giving Senator Grassley hell for not doing the decent thing and getting this guy back from El Salvador, especially given there is a Supreme Court judgement ordering them to do so. The scales may be falling from the eyes of people like this. And it will get worse once the shelves in Walmart are bare and iphones are 20% more expensive.
Your optimism is to be commended. It seems more that those Republicans starting to see the light, in my opinion, are the small minority of voters. Trumps approval rating is dropping dramatically, so maybe you're right.Yes, no doubt the hard core MAGA people will be like the Branch Davidians, at that unimprovably named town of Wacko - In Texas, naturally.
But they are a fairly small minority of voters. I was much encouraged by these old guys and gals giving Senator Grassley hell for not doing the decent thing and getting this guy back from El Salvador, especially given there is a Supreme Court judgement ordering them to do so. The scales may be falling from the eyes of people like this. And it will get worse once the shelves in Walmart are bare and iphones are 20% more expensive.
A lot of people have been observing lately that where previously we had to demonstrate that the Republicans and the Right were undemocratic, now we're back to having to demonstrate that democracy is preferable to the alternatives in the first place. That's tricky. This is not a great analogy, but it conveys at least how I feel about that: Understanding Kant is one thing; having to explain Kant is something else entirely--especially when dealing with a populace who haven't done the prerequisite homework*. I feel like I'm gonna have to dig out my Thomas Paine and, I don't know, Shelley (?), when I'm more accustomed to hammering on about Marx, Proudhon and Bakunin. But at the same time, with either scenario I recognize that I'm just hopelessly out of touch. Again, the civics and history deficits make this sort of thing infinitely more complicated.
The Grassley footage was encouraging, but I still think these are very small minority of Republican voters. We're talking about 70-odd million people and that's a rather... intimidating number.
Edit: * Of course, with Kant you shouldn't have to have done homework prior, which is kind of the point--but we're talking about the most basics of basics here.
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Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
I have always been a fan of Maher, what is happening to people?
In all honesty, I think the guy is experiencing cognitive decline either from early onset dementia or even advanced alcoholism--he's just been getting progressively more wacky and incoherent over the past several years.
He's always been an asshole and an elitist, but in the past he did he have some thoughtful takes and insights oftentimes. It's weird what he's become.