to vax or not to vax

[Dennis Tate]

As Billvon noted, yearly comparison shows a severe fail on Sweden's part.

The number of COVID deaths over the last year is why they started implementing strict rules like their neighbours, to try to slow it down.

And comparing 5 years of flu deaths to one year of COVID...


I have. Have you looked at the data? [https://www.newscientist.com/articl...when-talking-about-suicide-and-the-pandemic/]

For example, in Australia, one State implemented some of the toughest lockdown measures in the world, that lasted several months. There was no increase in suicides. [https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ic-would-drive-increase-20210118-p56uwp.html]


They have come out. And they do not support your claims.


If you are about to start peddling the treatment you have been peddling in several of your posts over the last several weeks, I would suggest you stop. Completely.

As for Israel, it stands to reason they protect herd immunity of those vaccinated and whose who cannot be vaccinated on medical grounds. As for the others who refuse or choose to go down a different path to what we know works? Darwinism.

It seems to me that the whole thing is a little more complicated ....


https://www.pe.com/2021/03/30/south...onavirus-pandemic-but-not-among-young-people/

Southern California suicides down during coronavirus pandemic — but not among young people
In three of four Los Angeles-area counties, suicides among minors rose in 2020, causing concern about isolation during distance learning

Suicides in Florida on the other hand were down in 2020.... Florida had much less restrictive measures against Covid 19 than either California or New York.

2,975

But across Florida, according to preliminary Medical Examiner's statistics, 2,975 people committed suicides in 2020. That's a drop of 13 percent from the previous year, and 16 percent from 2018

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronav...0200429-mqyzdplseva5belmqewn43u56i-story.html


Suicides in Queens rise since mid-March compared to 2019 as concerns about mental health grow during coronavirus pandemic

Queens District Attorney Melinda Katz was shocked one recent Monday by a pair of borough suicides: A 49-year-old man found hanging in a parking garage. And a 29-year-old woman who jumped from her bedroom window.

The two deaths are among the 16 suicides in Queens since March 15, when New York schools were closed as the pandemic began to wrap the city in its lethal grip. The dead had nothing in common except “they were sheltered and not sure where to turn,” Katz told the Daily News on Wednesday.

For comparison’s sake, there were 17 total suicides in Queens from Jan. 1 through April 29, 2019, just one more than reported in the past six weeks. While there are no citywide suicide stats available at this point in the COVID-19 crisis, anecdotal evidence points toward a bump in New Yorkers taking their own lives.

“I started noticing the numbers coming in over the last month and a half, and I felt obligated to send a message that we need to be checking in on our colleagues, our loved ones, our friends," said Katz.

For the record I will not state that I absolutely will not take a vaccine but.... I will be waiting for the last possible moment to do so for several reasons, one of which is that my province Nova Scotia has an incredibly low incidence of Covid 19 and I know that if I so much as feel a sore throat I go and get tested. I had one test in July of 2020 and I was negative. I upped my intake of natural anti-inflammatories and haven't even had a sore throat since then. I did that because I prefer to not have to take the test again if I can avoid it.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Suicides in Florida

But across Florida, according to preliminary Medical Examiner's statistics, 2,975 people committed suicides in 2020

how many of those suicides are military personal & x military personal ?
what were their professions ?
were they on anti-psyche meds
were they on anti-depresants ?
were they waiting operations and on pain medications ?

usa suicides are out of control

so posting slight changes in suicides in the usa as a sign of some type of environmental impact of lock-down to try and suggest lock-downs are bad
is not very honest

mental health in the usa has been manufactured to be in a state of crisis for the last few decades
its all about money and killing off people to harden up the poor working class to support a user pays national health system to manufacture private profit via a private health system
(population control/sacrifice)

how does that relate to vaccination ?
via public perceptions and fake media
i am guessing USA has the largest amount of anti-vaxers in any 1st world country

I did that because I prefer to not have to take the test again if I can avoid it.

are you scared of taking the test ?

one of which is that my province Nova Scotia has an incredibly low incidence of Covid 19 and I know that if I so much as feel a sore throat I go and get tested.

getting tested doesn't stop you from infecting your friends sick child or parents and killing them

vaccination is not primarily about saving the life of the individual, but instead saving the lives of the majority to give more hospital access and health care to a wider number of people so the over all population can be saved from collapsing into jungle warfare

may i personally ask you to not include suicide as a topic inside vaccination subjects when in any of my threads please
(unless you have studied suicide)
in which case
start a thread & be sure to post the link in when you bring the subject up in vaccination threads
& show the direct link to why you think they are related
(an opinion would suit me as long as you clearly label it your opinion)
i am not very hot on the idea of installing a ghost concept of public horror of suicide inside those attempting to decide if they trust modern medical science enough to get vaccinated
or get their children vaccinated
thats my personal opinion and request, im not reporting and making a complaint unlike some who wish to control the subject and peoples freedom of expression

 

[Bells]

It seems to me that the whole thing is a little more complicated ....


https://www.pe.com/2021/03/30/south...onavirus-pandemic-but-not-among-young-people/

Southern California suicides down during coronavirus pandemic — but not among young people
In three of four Los Angeles-area counties, suicides among minors rose in 2020, causing concern about isolation during distance learning

Suicides in Florida on the other hand were down in 2020.... Florida had much less restrictive measures against Covid 19 than either California or New York.


https://www.nydailynews.com/coronav...0200429-mqyzdplseva5belmqewn43u56i-story.html


Suicides in Queens rise since mid-March compared to 2019 as concerns about mental health grow during coronavirus pandemic



For the record I will not state that I absolutely will not take a vaccine but.... I will be waiting for the last possible moment to do so for several reasons, one of which is that my province Nova Scotia has an incredibly low incidence of Covid 19 and I know that if I so much as feel a sore throat I go and get tested. I had one test in July of 2020 and I was negative. I upped my intake of natural anti-inflammatories and haven't even had a sore throat since then. I did that because I prefer to not have to take the test again if I can avoid it.

Can you please link where you got the Florida information from.

And the giant text and colour changes is just annoying.

 

[Dennis Tate]

Can you please link where you got the Florida information from.

And the giant text and colour changes is just annoying.

Certainly.....
the quotation is from paragraph number seven......

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/02/10/a-pandemic-plus-florida-suicides-plummeted-experts-worry-it-wont-last/#:~:text=But across Florida, according to,and 16 percent from 2018.

A pandemic plus: Florida suicides plummeted. Experts worry it won’t last
According to preliminary Medical Examiner’s statistics, 2,975 people committed suicides in 2020. That’s a drop of 13 percent from the previous year, and 16 percent from 2018.

Since the coronavirus pandemic upended life nearly one year ago, experts have repeatedly warned of the dangers to people’s mental health, and that suicides could increase.

But across Florida, according to preliminary Medical Examiner’s statistics, 2,975 people committed suicides in 2020. That’s a drop of 13 percent from the previous year, and 16 percent from 2018.

Andrews said he believes another reason why there are fewer suicides during the pandemic may be simple.

“People are together at home — usually, people kill themselves when they are by themselves,” he said. “Most suicides are by people at home.”

Other states such as Massachusetts and Utah have also reported no increase in suicides during the pandemic. Data shows that internationally, 24 other countries reported similar numbers, at least during the summer, said Dr. Christine Moutier, the chief medical officer for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

It seems to me that the whole thing is a little more complicated ....

"working from home"
"forcing couples to spend more time together"
"showing up their lack of compatibility and negative personality aspects"
"lack of emotional development and how it is exacerbated by lack of self development in domestic co-habitation groups"

if everyone is as dumb as a rock and sexually stereo typed and kept in line like military conservative religious fundamentalism
then it doesn't matter
there is no liberty and no creativity of the human spirit

people are reduced to their function as an expression of their self esteem and group value & ego

hence mass shootings murder suicides and domestic homicide in the usa being completely out of control

"suicide" is a false god as a core driver statistic in the primary causative function of mental disorder caused by "lock-downs"

but surely you knew that already ?

i would go further to suggest
"suicide caused by lock-downs" is a propaganda media piece of a terrorist act on society as a public media spin

you can spin it off as being all free speech and adults choice to freely engage
but intellectually & emotionally as a level of equal maturity
it is like walking into a room of conservative religious teens and starting lecture them on the complex self esteem and style concepts of porn stars

the moral horror
has been normalised as being done to someone else
and then not caring about someone else
and companioning to "being not powerful enough to change the outcome"
and then demanding a gun

do you discuss suicide and advanced sexual development with teenagers ?
what age group is the suicides in ?

to vax or not to vax

is suicide a deliberate propaganda subject to divert debate around vaccines ?
so acclimatizing the helplessness of being unable to prevent suicides
the emotional dogma profile is cast to demand the same position toward covid19 transmission

to emotionally disassociate from the victims ?

i will inevitably get vaccinated(almost 100% over the next 10 years)
but i may have the luxury of waiting for the 2nd strain vaccine class which may be signifigantly better

no field trials in US history track 1 million field test subjects
the current kill rate of blood clots
being 1 or 2 in a million
would never be discovered in current conventional field trials
so its all new un charted territory

dont let the psychopaths take over the science

 

[RainbowSingularity]

"suicide caused by lock-downs" is a propaganda media piece of a terrorist act on society as a public media spin

seems to me

i am not calling Dennis a Media terrorist
i am highlighting the vast similarities in subjects that are very difficult and scary to the general population to discuss or watch & listen to on public TV prime-time media spaces

suicides & drug overdoses being an excellent example in the usa
where it should be prime time TV family discussion level
but its not
sweeping it under the rug instead of educating to up-skill & evolve

Can you please link where you got the Florida information from.

seconded
i like to debunk fake surveys
particularly when they relate to suicide & drug over dosing

 

[RainbowSingularity]

the quotation is from paragraph number seven......

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/02/10/a-pandemic-plus-florida-suicides-plummeted-experts-worry-it-wont-last/#:~:text=But across Florida, according to,and 16 percent from 2018

Dr. Bart Andrews, a board member of the American Society of Suicidology. “The biggest reason is there is a level of societal collectiveness. Everyone is in this together. It’s the nationalization of our mood. All of a sudden, people are part of something larger than themselves.”

US suicides dropped last year, defying pandemic expectations
Suicide had been the nation’s 10th leading cause of death, but dropped to 11th in 2020.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/2021/...pped-last-year-defying-pandemic-expectations/

NEW YORK — The number of U.S. suicides fell nearly 6 percent last year amid the coronavirus pandemic — the largest annual decline in at least four decades, according to preliminary government data.

“There’s a heroism phase in every disaster period, where we’re banding together and expressing lots of messages of support that we’re in this together,” said Dr. Christine Moutier, chief medical officer of the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. “You saw that, at least in the early months of the pandemic.”

so we can see when we read Christines comments as an intellectual
we can see the potential impact of anti-vaxer devisionism media causing an increase in suicides

if that is our subject area ...

 

[Dennis Tate]

i am not calling Dennis a Media terrorist
i am highlighting the vast similarities in subjects that are very difficult and scary to the general population to discuss or watch & listen to on public TV prime-time media spaces

suicides & drug overdoses being an excellent example in the usa
where it should be prime time TV family discussion level
but its not
sweeping it under the rug instead of educating to up-skill & evolve


seconded
i like to debunk fake surveys
particularly when they relate to suicide & drug over dosing

Here in Nova Scotia it is common knowledge that substance abuse has been up substantially during this past year. Apparently the situation all across the USA is similar to what has been happening here.

https://www.ehstoday.com/health/art...n-a-pandemic-substance-abuse-rises-amid-covid


A Pandemic within a Pandemic: Substance Abuse Rises Amid COVID
Recovery advocate Tim Ryan tells EHS Today how families, employers and communities can support those who battle with substance abuse.

The light at the end of the tunnel for the opioid epidemic has been extinguished with the emergence of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Widespread shutdowns and social distancing measures have made it difficult for those seeking guidance and treatment for substance abuse issues to secure resources. Because of this, the United States has experienced a surge in alcohol sales and relapses as substance abuse becomes more prominent.

"The COVID-19 pandemic is a particularly grave risk to the millions of Americans with opioid use disorder, who—already vulnerable and marginalized—are heavily dependent on face-to-face health care delivery," researchers stated in "An Epidemic in the Midst of a Pandemic: Opioid Use Disorder and COVID-19," a recent study that examined the effects of the unprecedented situation.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

excellent subject & involves the needles loss of thousands of employed professionals & peoples dearly loved family members
but completely off thread subject and so i cant comment on it
if you wish to start a thread on it then i will jump in and join you.
massive crisis in most countrys

Here in Nova Scotia it is common knowledge that substance abuse has been up substantially during this past year. Apparently the situation all across the USA is similar to what has been happening here.

https://www.ehstoday.com/health/art...n-a-pandemic-substance-abuse-rises-amid-covid


A Pandemic within a Pandemic: Substance Abuse Rises Amid COVID
Recovery advocate Tim Ryan tells EHS Today how families, employers and communities can support those who battle with substance abuse.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

i wont choose astrazenica or johnson & johnson's existing vaccine

if they bring out something new & once it hits 2nd gen then i will choose that if another has not already hit late 2nd gen and is standing up like a shining star

 

[Dennis Tate]

i wont choose astrazenica or johnson & johnson's existing vaccine

if they bring out something new & once it hits 2nd gen then i will choose that if another has not already hit late 2nd gen and is standing up like a shining star

I am in a similar position......
There are often less than ten new cases here in Nova Scotia per week and I live over a hundred and fifty miles from Halifax..... so the probability of my becoming contagious with COVID 19 is astonishingly unlikely, (and I would go get another test if I so much as felt a sore throat, which is a pretty effective response to this), so I want to wait until close to the time when I actually need to travel before I take a vaccine... which could be another year or more?! (I would love it if a vaccine became unnecessary for a number of possible reasons).

Several weeks ago you gave me the name of a film starring Steve Carell, "The Big Short." I watched it the same day you gave me the name and it reminded me of a statement in the number two documentary regarding the Dr. Stanislav Burzynski anti-neoplastons cancer research. Dr. Burzynski or one of his assistants made the statement that a high ranking member of the Obama administration toured his clinic..... and admitted that they personally LOVED what they were accomplishing but..... they admitted that they could NOT go public and endorse Dr. Burzynski;s treatments because......... he reasoned that the USA economy could not handle another 2008 bubble!!!!

From what I have read something somewhat similar ... but somewhat different...... happened over the last year! The vaccine was estimated that it could well bring in A TRILLION dollars to the Big Pharma industry! "Journalists" on CNN and Fox and all other Mainstream Media outlets.......
depend largely on BigPharma for advertising so.......

... they simply were NOT totally intellectually honest about the various treatments for COVID 19. This will be understood within a year or two and some people could be in a lot of trouble over this. The death toll from COVID 19 could potentially have been a tiny fraction of what the death toll was but...........

... the idea of a TRILLION dollar windfall for BigPharma.....
causes otherwise courageous people to think and rethink their position......
and journalists on BigMedia are not free to tell all the truth... all the time.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

so.......

some things just do not get discussed
such is the way of the world
& i am just a little nobody

regardless of that fact look at India & its culture around the virus

modern 1st world liberal secular morality is very new to the human species
it is very easy for those born into privilege 1st world to incorrectly assume that such moral financial & intellectual equality is a norm.
its simply not the case

 

[RainbowSingularity]

... they simply were NOT totally intellectually honest

some things just do not get discussed
such is the way of the world
& i am just a little nobody

regardless of that fact look at India & its culture around the virus

modern 1st world liberal secular morality is very new to the human species
it is very easy for those born into privilege 1st world to incorrectly assume that such moral financial & intellectual equality is a norm.
its simply not the case

different thread subject
usa social moral culture
universal health care
independent media
democracy
etc
big small left or right of center pharma do not employ scientists to act as a charity to give away money AND pay tax
they do it purely for profit
that is usa morals

to vax or not to vax when you cant afford the vaccine that you cant trust is a difficult decision

how many American cant afford to get the vaccine ? 0 ? so all Americans can get vaccine for free as liberal 1st world universal health care
but most of the world cant afford it
so they cant choose it

so to choose to vax or not to vax
you 1st must be capable of getting the vaccine

... the idea of a TRILLION dollar windfall for BigPharma.....
causes otherwise courageous people to think and rethink their position......
and journalists on BigMedia are not free to tell all the truth... all the time.

Government contracts to monopolies...
blaming big greedy corporations when those corporations are run and controlled by American republican party policy

... ?
who in a country where vaccines cant be afforded, would choose NOT to accept a trillion dollar windfall
what is intellectual honesty ?

... they simply were NOT totally intellectually honest

... ?

to vax or not to vax was decided by usa medical insurance executives when they were back room negotiating with the republican party policy controllers and administration

who can choose to vax versus who has no choice of any vax ?

 

[Dennis Tate]

different thread subject
usa social moral culture
universal health care
independent media
democracy
etc
big small left or right of center pharma do not employ scientists to act as a charity to give away money AND pay tax
they do it purely for profit
that is usa morals

to vax or not to vax when you cant afford the vaccine that you cant trust is a difficult decision

how many American cant afford to get the vaccine ? 0 ? so all Americans can get vaccine for free as liberal 1st world universal health care
but most of the world cant afford it
so they cant choose it

so to choose to vax or not to vax
you 1st must be capable of getting the vaccine



Government contracts to monopolies...
blaming big greedy corporations when those corporations are run and controlled by American republican party policy

... ?
who in a country where vaccines cant be afforded, would choose NOT to accept a trillion dollar windfall
what is intellectual honesty ?


... ?

to vax or not to vax was decided by usa medical insurance executives when they were back room negotiating with the republican party policy controllers and administration

who can choose to vax versus who has no choice of any vax ?

True... it seems off topic....
but if you watch one or two of the documentaries regarding how Dr. Stanislav Burzynski was treated for finding the only proven cures for various types of brain tumors.....
you would know that the same type of intellectual dishonesty is not only something that takes place in the third world....
but is very much at the very top of what is being promoted in the wealthy nations as well.

If effective cures for cancer can be hidden.....
so can low cost effective cures for COVID 19. From what I have seen on various videos the death toll from COVID 19 could have been a fraction of what it was......
but certain people in places of influence were not doing a very good job of abiding by the Hippocratic Oath.

When you research Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine extensively..... you will know what I mean..... The fact that they were extremely low cost seems to be one of the reasons why the BigMedia attacked these effective treatments in order to make it look like the vaccine was the best way to go.

You are absolutely correct that the corruption is all across the political spectrum and is not owned by any one political party. Both CNN as well as Fox news are extremely guilty in the deceptions that took place over this past year.

 

[Dennis Tate]

some things just do not get discussed
such is the way of the world
& i am just a little nobody

regardless of that fact look at India & its culture around the virus

modern 1st world liberal secular morality is very new to the human species
it is very easy for those born into privilege 1st world to incorrectly assume that such moral financial & intellectual equality is a norm.
its simply not the case

I have heard that herd immunity is building up in India very rapidly.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

True... it seems off topic....
but if you watch one or two of the documentaries regarding how Dr. Stanislav Burzynski was treated for finding the only proven cures for various types of brain tumors.....
you would know that the same type of intellectual dishonesty is not only something that takes place in the third world....
but is very much at the very top of what is being promoted in the wealthy nations as well.

If effective cures for cancer can be hidden.....
so can low cost effective cures for COVID 19. From what I have seen on various videos the death toll from COVID 19 could have been a fraction of what it was......
but certain people in places of influence were not doing a very good job of abiding by the Hippocratic Oath.

When you research Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine extensively..... you will know what I mean..... The fact that they were extremely low cost seems to be one of the reasons why the BigMedia attacked these effective treatments in order to make it look like the vaccine was the best way to go.

You are absolutely correct that the corruption is all across the political spectrum and is not owned by any one political party. Both CNN as well as Fox news are extremely guilty in the deceptions that took place over this past year.

but certain people in places of influence were not doing a very good job of abiding by the Hippocratic Oath.

Politicians and business owners and business associations and private equity groups are not subject to the Hippocratic Oath
and in countrys where the national health system is private, like the USA
the Hippocratic Oath means nothing
the usa break the Hippocratic Oath thousands of times every day by placing profit before peoples health
that is the American system

the only countrys where the Hippocratic Oath means something is those countrys who have universal health care
all the others are fake hypocrites & vote in their elections to support their hypocrisy.

so are they anti-vaxers ?

im guessing its only a matter of formalized few days before the astrazenica type vaccines are all book-shelved
[as i need to do other things my editing time runs out so i am changing how i post to include things so i post it rather than lose entire posts to running over the editing time allowed.]

The fact that they were extremely low cost seems to be one of the reasons why the BigMedia attacked these effective treatments in order to make it look like the vaccine was the best way to go.

who owns media ?
big corporate private interests
the same people who own and pay for lobbyists who pay money to politicians to buy laws and buy de-regulation and buy monopoly contracts
all very legal in the usa and common practice in most countrys

You are absolutely correct that the corruption is all across the political spectrum and is not owned by any one political party. Both CNN as well as Fox news are extremely guilty in the deceptions that took place over this past year.

you are talking about Tucker Carlson ?
is he an anti-vaxer ?

a lot if not most of those upper class elitists live in small privileged worlds where they have very little risk of catching a cold virus from a random member of the working class.
so their need to be vaccinated to protect their life & their familys lifes is vastly different risk grouping and risk values.
they also can get hospital treatment immediately when ever they choose.
unlike working class

so their choice to vax or not to vax is completely different values morals and real life risks to health and income than average working class

 

[RainbowSingularity]

to vax or not to vax
can i afford it ?
who is paying for it ?

You are absolutely correct that the corruption is all across the political spectrum and is not owned by any one political party

you are talking about the usa
where class systems rule
class systems sit above political party power
so you see upper class children and family being employed by both party's with opposing moral ideologies as common practice.
they also get given privilege contracts and jobs in upper class systems funded by working class tax.

it is a cultural class system that is sought as the most desirable class system by the majority of Americans as a chosen culture economic & financial control system

calling it "corruption" is inaccurate and un-helpful
it is not corruption when that is the intended and collectively supported system

most of those people who walk in to their local high security star bucks to buy their morning tea or coffee which the working class are paying for
consider that action as being slumming it with the common people
with common values
when in reality everyone is putting on a stage production for cash as that is their job
no body talks out of line or off script

to vax or not to vax ....

so the star bucks worker is on minimum wage in a top class neighborhood
but no one wants to pay for them to get vaccinated
even though they can all afford it
but the upper class demand the star bucks coffee server workers vaccinated to protect them against covid,
while they choose to vax or not to vax
as a personal freedom

THAT is corruption
it is called moral corruption it is also normalised as part of american culture

do not copy n past my content to other sites
instead , post a link to this web site to the thread post

 

[Michael 345]

Hippocratic Oath

Only applies to doctors who takes it

Not applicable to countries or organisations like Insurance Companies

In Australia we have a version Registered Nurses take

you are talking about Tucker Carlson ?
is he an anti-vaxer ?

Seeking to couch his skepticism by positioning himself as “pro-vaccine,” as he's said in the past, Carlson began his monologue by declaratively stating about the vaccines: “We are not against it on principle. Like every American, we are grateful.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucke...e-doesnt-work-and-theyre-not-telling-you-that

He did go as the article states tin foil hat when the blot clot pause had him saying "perhaps the vaccine doesn't work but government not telling"

Stranded in Bali girlfriend Inul received her free vaccination. Said I could get mine free. Turns out I need a Indonesian ID number. But to receive a Indonesian ID number I need to change my visa status

THAT would cost me $1,000

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Said I could get mine free.

what about a catholic charity med who you can make a voluntary donation to & get a free jab ?

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Seeking to couch his skepticism by positioning himself as “pro-vaccine,”

he is the upper class right & liberal go-to common guy of the little peoples opinion
so he is playing into that role
that is his dye
that is who his wages get paid for
to fill that role

republican coal miners daughters husband

Carlson began his monologue

cheap fake copying church service to pre hypnotize the audience into a belief mode so he can sell them lies and half truths
americans love it more than porn
it is the american #1 form of escapism

splain spinnners call it
defining the narrative
when in fact it is dictating the pre defined terms of fact
while spinning a false narrative as a form of propaganda

to vax or not to vax
who to believe

side note
question
gender distribution on post vaccination blood clots ?
is there any link to any other meds like womens meds
so the vaccine can avoid being dumped and maybe safely given to men below a certain age without risking all the private sector litigious nonsense ?