Tariffs - the most beautiful word in the dictionary

Markets open much lower today. Asia is about 10-12% lower. Germany 10% lower. FTSE c.6%.

Tariffs. Because America clearly doesn't want cheaper goods, or better goods, or innovation, or competition.


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Did you see this idiot Peter Navarro, whom Trump has adopted as his tariff guru, was found on Amazon by his creepy son-in-law Jared Kushner, after Trump told him to find an economist who agreed with his views on tariffs? Navarro has written series of economics books on China that quote a supposed academic called Ron Vara, who turns out to be fictitious, being just an anagram of Navarro. (Navarro has done jail time for contempt of Congress, over the 6th Jan insurrection.)

It seems this morning some of Trump's billionaire donors are having a Corporal Jones moment.
 
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It seems this morning some of Trump's billionaire donors are having a Corporal Jones moment.

I am not surprised, they are watching the arse fall out of their stock on a daily basis. Musk will be gone soon and will Turn on Trump quicker than you can say, "this was not supposed to happen Donald!"
 
If he does tank the US economy, something I specifically did not want him to do, then at least he has plenty of experience with businesses he has lead to bankruptcy.
Some sources say 4 times others say 6, either way, he has experience here so that could help him when h finds himself back in 1929.
 
Musk is on his way out probably.
He has urged Trump to create free trade between the US and Europe.
Tesla has taken a big hit losing "10% in one day and down 44% since Trump took office."
That will cause a little tension and Whitehouse officials have said his role will "end in the coming weeks."

Monday UK Metro - headlines
He's already announced that he'll step down after c.160 days, saying that he would have achieved the $1tn in savings by then. Only there's unlikely to be anything to prove that he's achieved that, other than his say-so. And the swathe of destruction in his path. Sure, the sackings / redundancies would have saved something, for sure. But if it's anything like the early "top 5 savings" that were on the DOGE website, that claimed $10bn in savings yet probably amounted to little more than $20m, I wouldn't hold my breath that it's anything above maybe $100bn. There will be headline numbers of money "saved" but behind those headlines there's likely little actual auditable substance. At least not auditable by anyone other than those who are going to go in and just confirm whatever Trump/Musk wants them to say. i.e. noone independent.

He also seems to think that him going back to Tesla will somehow help things there... when it could be argued that the damage has been done merely by his association with the company. Are people who protested now going to buy Tesla because he's not head of DOGE and back at Tesla??
 
If he does tank the US economy, something I specifically did not want him to do, then at least he has plenty of experience with businesses he has lead to bankruptcy.
Some sources say 4 times others say 6, either way, he has experience here so that could help him when h finds himself back in 1929.
It's at least 6.
But let's take Trump Entertainment Resorts as an example: filed for bankruptcy in 2004, 2009, and 2014. This included his casinos.
It was eventually sold in 2016 for $50m, with investors up to that point having lost hundreds of millions over the years, if not in the billions, while he scammed them... sorry, took "salary" and other benefits... of over $44m, even while the business continued to lose money and tank.

So, maybe once he has bankrupted the US, he can sell it all to Chyyyyyyna for a pittance, and walk away with enough to at least keep him solvent. 'Cos that's all he really cares about.
 
He's already announced that he'll step down after c.160 days, saying that he would have achieved the $1tn in savings by then. Only there's unlikely to be anything to prove that he's achieved that, other than his say-so. And the swathe of destruction in his path. Sure, the sackings / redundancies would have saved something, for sure. But if it's anything like the early "top 5 savings" that were on the DOGE website, that claimed $10bn in savings yet probably amounted to little more than $20m, I wouldn't hold my breath that it's anything above maybe $100bn. There will be headline numbers of money "saved" but behind those headlines there's likely little actual auditable substance. At least not auditable by anyone other than those who are going to go in and just confirm whatever Trump/Musk wants them to say. i.e. noone independent.

He also seems to think that him going back to Tesla will somehow help things there... when it could be argued that the damage has been done merely by his association with the company. Are people who protested now going to buy Tesla because he's not head of DOGE and back at Tesla??
Nah, he’s Rattnered the brand with all this Nazi stuff. I actually think we’re past peak Musk, now.
 
Basically Trump is trying to assert that the US is at war. War with... um... er... I don't know. But if he declares the US to be at war, surely he's allowed to implement all these powers granted to the US under War Powers, right?
You just stepped into a Constitutional bog. Enjoy.

 
Hmm. The Fertilisation President might find it convenient to declare war on Iran. He meets Bibi this week. They have just softened up Iran's Houthi proxies, for no particular reason I can discern. What if the US and Israel are planning to attack Iran, possibly together?
The FPOTUS is a Putin puppet. How would war against Iran, a close economic and military partner of Russia, work with that?
 
He's already announced that he'll step down after c.160 days, saying that he would have achieved the $1tn in savings by then. Only there's unlikely to be anything to prove that he's achieved that, other than his say-so. And the swathe of destruction in his path. Sure, the sackings / redundancies would have saved something, for sure.
Unless the 25k terminated were all making in the range of 40 million dollars per annum, of course. Don't think they were, though.
 
The FPOTUS is a Putin puppet. How would war against Iran, a close economic and military partner of Russia, work with that?
He probably thinks Russia has a good enough hold on Ukraine already. And the bonkers millenarians are a core part of the MAGA constituency so it suits Trump to befriend the like-minded autocrat in Israel.
 
Trump is now threatening 50% as retaliation to China's 34%


Some good news is that some of the markets have recovered. A quick video on three signs of recession, quite good for Economic newbies like my self who is trying to keep up with it all.

 
Trump is now threatening 50% as retaliation to China's 34%


Some good news is that some of the markets have recovered. A quick video on three signs of recession, quite good for Economic newbies like my self who is trying to keep up with it all.

Does anyone think America can "take more pain" than China?

I see the EU wants China to "negotiate"

Does that mean they have caved or are they waiting to see if China stands up to America full square before making up their own minds?

Are they putting off the hour when they have to favour one side over the other?
 
Trump is now threatening 50% as retaliation to China's 34%
Yes - he's very much of the opinion that every other country should just sit back and let him do his thing. Because he sees (or at least argues) that he's just rebalancing the playing field, any retributionary tariffs by the other countries in response would be unfair (in his eyes). His yes-men and minions just repeat that notion, despite, I'm sure, some of them knowing that it's all horse-shit.
Reality is that his tariffs are not themselves retaliatory, but entirely unprovoked in the global scheme of things. Yes, the US has trade deficits, but as a result they get cheap things, and can instead concentrate their focus on what they do well. Do they really want sweat-shops manufacturing their Nike's, their t-shirts, their cheap garments and cheap tat, neither of which will be as cheap as a result of the tariffs?
The proposed China response is retaliatory, and any subsequent raising by Trump would just further the downward spiral.

If Trump's aim was to get into the history books, and to be spoken about for generations, well, he's certainly achieving that.
Some good news is that some of the markets have recovered.
"recovered" in the sense that a boxer "recovers" when they stand up from a knockdown while still suffering wobbly legs, blurred vision, and no real idea of where they are.

But I admire your positive spin. ;)
 
Does anyone think America can "take more pain" than China?

I see the EU wants China to "negotiate"

Does that mean they have caved or are they waiting to see if China stands up to America full square before making up their own minds?

Are they putting off the hour when they have to favour one side over the other?
It means that they are being pragmatic, and see that escalating in the manner of simply applying reciprocal tariffs is only going to continue the downward cycle. Negotiation at least enables both sides to come to the table and lay out actual intentions. What is Trump actually looking for, or are tariffs the goal in and of themselves, to generate revenue for the government? If so, there is little that China can do, and they will react as they see fit. But if Trump is applying tariffs so as to achieve something else, then what is that thing? Get him to actually set it out and maybe China can come up with something that is palatable for both sides.

The EU are going to try to negotiate first, I'm sure, but will then apply targeted tariffs. The question, though, is what does the US sell that the EU actually wants? While it would have been military hardware - especially if NATO countries are upping their annual spending - Trump's posturing has pretty much shredded the confidence that EU members would have in US equipment, and I'm sure they'll instead be looking to buy even less from the US on that front. Again, as a result solely of Trump's posturing. The things that the Secretary of Commerce has mentioned are effectively non-starters for the EU: beef, chicken, cars etc. The EU has standards, and the US products simply don't meet them. The US could, if they so wished, raise their own standards to meet the EU's criteria, and if they could do that and produce more cheaply then there'd be no problem, I'm sure. There might then be some protective tariffs, but at least that's then a case of both sides producing what is needed, and negotiations would be meaningful.
And the same is true for China: what does the US actually sell that they want? Does the US really want more Chinese investment in the US???

Trump is just a numpty, though. I honestly think the tariffs are the end goal. Yes, he says he wants manufacturing back in the US, he wants to end dependence on other countries, but that would then reduce the tariff income and ultimately defeat the level of his tariff revenue. Plus all the other detriments of tariffs (lack of innovation, laziness, inefficiency, higher prices, etc). I just don't see that Trump really has any actual plan, other than to raise revenue so that he can continue his tax-cuts (that disproportionately aid the wealthy).

Interesting times.
 
"recovered" in the sense that a boxer "recovers" when they stand up from a knockdown while still suffering wobbly legs, blurred vision, and no real idea of where they are.
Recovered "somewhat" would have been better. Wobbly legs but at least the bleeding has stopped.
 
This extra Tax on China , is going to hurt many big and small businesses .
How many things are made in China . Thousands if not millions . All bought and sold by small and big businesses . ( Because they are cheap ) Back To Us consumers .
 
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If voters were worried about the price of eggs, I've got to think that when everything from China doubles in price, that's going to be a problem. Congress might grow a pair and fight back (Republicans and Democrats).
 
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