Read-Only said:"What if's" buy you nothing about things already past and resolved.
Says who? You?
Read-Only said:"What if's" buy you nothing about things already past and resolved.
Yes, notice here how he clearly ignores your point and attempts to redirect the discussion by slandering your reputation. This is a mark of weakness and defeat.
He also reduces the practice and benefits of asking "what if" - a means of penetrating the unknown - to "idle mental gymnastics."
He was cornered and shown for the sophist and pedant he is. Hopefully he can learn and evolve from this instead of validating himself and harboring anger and resentment as he no doubt usually does.
Good luck to you Read-Only.
Says who? You?
No thanks! Am afraid i might become narrow minded like you.
I think that you are some schoolkid trying to gain some reputation as a retired scientist/researcher.
Read-Only said:Oh, sure - and I have just shown how TOTALLY foolish you were by ignoring my statement that you quoted about "what if." You should be completely embarrassed because of it by the time you read this post!
Read-Only said:I don't waste any time dealing in silly "what if's" - that's a child's game. I deal only in facts that can be substantiated - not in idle mental gymnastics. "What if's" buy you nothing about things already past and resolved.
me said:But what if Einstein had not provided the math and said that everything was relative? He would have been called a loon and a pseudo scientist by the scientific establishment but he still would have been right.
and this is the quote you're referring to:
“ Originally Posted by Read-Only
I don't waste any time dealing in silly "what if's" - that's a child's game. I deal only in facts that can be substantiated - not in idle mental gymnastics. "What if's" buy you nothing about things already past and resolved. ”
I think anyone can see how I might have missed the tail end of that. It's the sign of a bad conclusion when you bring in more information at the end. The first sentence doesn't insinuate "things already past and resolved" at all; it addresses all "what if's."
And I'm not embarrassed by missing that part at all - and contrary to your belief it doesn't render the conclusions I've made wrong. "What if's" in the sense you use them usually refer to things like "if I hadn't gotten on that train that day maybe I wouldn't have been mugged." In that sense you'd be right, "what if's" are generally useless because you can't change what happened.
My point being that the final sentence explains exactly how I was referring to "what if" - things in the past - which is exactly what you formed your question on. Clearly, new "what if's" are precisely what drive new and expanded discoveries! It's really, really sad that I have to spell that out for you in such simple words before you can understand the meaning.
Originally Posted by stateofmind
LoL!! How could progression exist without asking "What if?"
Even Einstein himself said imagination is more important than knowledge.
Jerk! You totally ignored the last sentence of what you quoted! Now go BACK and read it again and you'll see just HOW foolish this post was.
Mod Hat — Checking in
So everybody is getting along then, yes?
Good.
the post is not about foolishness read-only
but it is about saying the same thing in a different way
Mod Hat — Checking in
So everybody is getting along then, yes?
Good.
No, it's not even close to being the same thing. One is about the future in which there are opportunities and choices to do things; the other is a wasted effort dwelling on past events where there is NO ability to change the outcome or conditions.
The first is certainly worth discussing - the second would just be idle chatter that cannot be of use to anyone.
You never could see the forest for the trees, could you Read-Only?
OK, then - YOU tell me the benefit of a never-ending discussion of "what if Einstein had not had the math to support his claim." Just what practical value could be derived from it? Who would benefit? Why? AND how is that a better use of time than working on current things??? Eh?
Read-Only said:Just what practical value could be derived from it? Who would benefit? Why? AND how is that a better use of time than working on current things??? Eh?
Read-Only with a post that doesn't insult? Am I dreaming??
Okay, all I would like you to do is answer what would probably happen in this scenario:
"If Einstein didn't have the math to support his claim, and he took it to a group of prominent scientists of the day, how would they treat him?"
The practical value is the insight into the nature of the scientific establishment. This isn't an outlandish scenario, it happens even today. I'd say anyone thinking about this, especially if they never thought about it, would benefit in some way.
The reason, in this situation, it's a better use of time than working with current things is because it's impossible to have an example of this in the past or future. The example would have to include someone who worked outside the realm of accepted science and was deemed later to be correct. The example HAS to be from the past.
Physicist Nassim Haramein will probably share a similar experience to Einstein (and has already experienced parts of it) but since it all hasn't come to fruition yet, it remains to be disputed.
Rehashing the past is in no way going to change how things are handled in the present OR the future. It's still just idle and wasted effort.
Your absolutely right Read-Only. What could we possibly learn from the past that could help us understand who we are and what were doing? To see trends?
Although your statement does apply to one area, war. We certainly havent learned how to avoid war.
Of course I'm right - you are once again failing to think deeply enough. It's certainly not JUST war - humans in general seem to lack the ability to learn much at all from history.
So you agree with EndLightEnd's sarcasm?
In a sense. People like to study history and many of them make it a lifetime endeavor. But the thing is, translating the events found in history into something that is actually applied to what humans do going forward is RARELY accomplished. Thus the old saying about "history repeating itself" - despite it having being studied.