Religion will prevail

[Dennis Tate]

If your belief is what would prevent our own self demise, sign me up!

I guess.

The beings being encountered during near death experiencers have promised to not even allow all out nuclear war to happen!

Because of my fear of a nuclear holocaust I asked if there was going to be a nuclear war in the world, and they said no. That astonished me, and I gave them this extensive explanation of how I had lived under the threat of nuclear war. That was one of the reasons I was who I was. I figured, when I was in this life, that it was all sort of hopeless; the world was going to blow up anyway, and nothing made much sense. In that context I felt I could do what I wanted, since nothing mattered.

They said, "No, there isn't going to be any nuclear war."

I asked if they were absolutely sure there wasn't going to be nuclear war. They reassured me again, and I asked them how they could be so sure.

Their response was: "God loves the world." They told me that at the most, one or two nuclear weapons might go off accidentally, if they weren't destroyed, but there wouldn't be a nuclear war.

I then asked them how come there had been so many wars. They said that they allowed those few to happen, out of all the wars that humanity tried to start. Out of all the wars that humans tried to create, they allowed a few, to bring people to their senses and to stop them.

Science, technology, and other benefits, they told me, had been gifts bestowed on humanity by them - through inspiration. People had literally been led to those discoveries, many of which had later been perverted by humanity to use for its own destruction." (Howard Storm)

https://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/howard-storm.html#a04

 

[river]

Yeah I suppose . So we owe this god for our very existence ?

 

[Dennis Tate]

Yeah I suppose . So we owe this god for our very existence ?

Another way to think of this is that we owe our existence to the first Scientist / Inventor / Programmer who just happens to be
composed of fundamental or nearly fundamental energy.

That fundamental energy Intelligence invested infinite time in the past in the invention of all life forms.... that exist in all
dimensions of space and time. Of course the original Inventor is learning and getting better at creating... and all of the various species that were invented are also evolving and learning.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Another way to think of this is that we owe our existence to the first Scientist / Inventor / Programmer who just happens to be
composed of fundamental or nearly fundamental energy.

It's certainly one way of thinking.
Unfortunately it's not - so far as can be ascertained - a valid one.
"Fundamental energy" is a made up term that doesn't reference anything that can be shown to exist.

That fundamental energy Intelligence invested infinite time in the past in the invention of all life forms.... that exist in all
dimensions of space and time. Of course the original Inventor is learning and getting better at creating... and all of the various species that were invented are also evolving and learning.

Yeah... no.

 

[Dennis Tate]

Yeah I suppose . So we owe this god for our very existence ?

In this world we are often taught to take care of number one.....
take care of self.....
nobody else will....

but the idea that infinite time was invested in every aspect of the world around us.... can lead us toward a much different view.

e. His Observations of the Temple of Wisdom
The following is the testimony of George Ritchie's Temple of Wisdom and Heavenly City Experience: They then travel to a completely different realm where some kind of enormous university is located. Spirits dressed as monks busily and happily engaged in some form of artistic behavior or research. An enormous library exists here where all the important books of the universe are assembled. Ritchie asks Jesus if this is heaven. These are the spirits of people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth; but, like the spirits in hell, these spirits cannot see Jesus either.

f. His Vision of the Heavenly City
Ritchie is then taken into outer space toward a distant city made of brilliant light - similar in description to the heavenly city in the Book of Revelation (see also Revelation 21:10-27.) This is the place where people go who have become like Jesus while on Earth - a place where love is the dominant focus of life. This is heaven he realizes; but he is not allowed to enter it. Instead, Jesus shows him the future of Earth and is told to return to his physical body. At this point, Ritchie is revived from death." (George Ritchie)

https://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/george-ritchie.html#a05e

 

[Dennis Tate]

It's certainly one way of thinking.
Unfortunately it's not - so far as can be ascertained - a valid one.
"Fundamental energy" is a made up term that doesn't reference anything that can be shown to exist.

Yeah... no.

True... until String Theory came along....
we really did not have to think about the implications of there being some sort of "fundamental energy."

"The real burden in the next three centuries will not be the development of fancy mathematics, but the experimental testing of these ambitious theories. All current thinking about total unification assumes that the effects of linking all the forces and particles together will only become manifest at energies that are some trillion times greater than those currently attainable in particle accelerators. Probably we shall never reach such energies directly" ( A Theory of Everything" Volume 21 of "The World ofScience)

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Yeah I suppose . So we owe this god for our very existence ?

Another way to think of this is that we owe our existence to the first Scientist / Inventor / Programmer who just happens to be
composed of fundamental or nearly fundamental energy.

That fundamental energy Intelligence invested infinite time in the past in the invention of all life forms.... that exist in all
dimensions of space and time. Of course the original Inventor is learning and getting better at creating... and all of the various species that were invented are also evolving and learning.

Who were they before .

What fundamental energy ?

 

[Dywyddyr]

True... until String Theory came along....
we really did not have to think about the implications of there being some sort of "fundamental energy."

We still don't need to.
To paraphrase: that quote doesn't mean what you (apparently) think it means.

 

[Dennis Tate]

Who were they before .

I ran into an account of somebody seeing what would appear to be Super Strings interacting with Super Waves.....
and the man who saw this found it scary..........
but I think that this may have been a glimpse of the true primordial soup that led to abiogenesis.

It appears that our Creator / Creators... grew up in an astonishingly tough neighbourhood?!

I believe that The Law of Complexity Consciousness would be in action at each stage of Intelligence....
inventing lower and lower and lower and lower and lower energetic and vibrational dimensions / universes.

We could say before this that "In the beginning were Super Strings and Super Waves." Hell... is the decision to
concentrate so much on SELF that we don't care much about anybody else..... or even our pets.

A VISION of HELL Gehenna - HADES - SHEOL. It is Eternal Torment!

Dr. Michael Yeager, on the verge of suicide and with a knife to his wrist a fear hit him which he now recognizes as the fear of God. He dropped his knife and went to his knees and asked the Lord to forgive him of his sins and he gave his life to the Lord.

He was immediately freed from all addictions and was given a desire to tell others about Jesus. What stuck out to me the most is that he said that selfishness is the beginning of being on the pathway to hell. He mentions things like being obsessed with TV watching, sports and anything else we love more than God, as very dangerous and can place us on the wrong path.

One night when in prayer he received a vision of hell and the floor of his room opened up he kept falling down and down in a deep dark hole for miles and miles. It was very real and he could see, touch, smell, feel everything. Fear was filling his whole being.

A wind was blowing from this hole that seemed to be bottomless and the odor was so strong it was sickening. By looking between his feet he could see a distant orange glow. As he approached this orange glow it became bigger and bigger and he then entered a cavern and he was over a huge area of what looked like lava sending flames hundreds of feet into the air. Earth shattering explosions could also be heard. He knew he was still about 10,000 feet above this burning sea and even at that distance the heat was almost too much to bear and it felt like his skin was actually burning off.




The smell was so nauseating that it made him cough and gasp for air but there was none. His ears than began to be filled with a very eerie sound that sounded like humming. This sound was constant and got louder and louder as he approached the lava. God opened his understanding as to what the sound was. The sound was actually human beings screaming in unbelievable agony. He realized that God was showing him a vision of hell.

At about 200 feet above this lake of lava, fire and brimstone, the pain got almost too much to bear. He then saw some objects bobbing up and down in this burning sea of what looked like lava. There were tens of thousands of these objects. These objects were actually human beings bobbing up and down and back and forth. These people were weeping and wailing in extreme agony.

No relief from pain was available to them. Their bodies were burned black in this sea of fire and brimstone. Suddenly he plunged into the lava and it covered him and filled his eyes, nose throat, lungs etc. His eyes felt like they were being consumed out of their sockets and could barely breathe. He finds it difficult to explain the amount of pain he was experiencing. He also knew hell was eternal and no chance of getting out.

He was shown that selfishness is the gateway to hell. Excruciating pain overtook him fully as he was submerged in this sea of fire and brimstone that looked like lava. As he was sucked down into this sea he was in total darkness with no light at all. He was suffocating and could not take a breath but yet he was not dying. When he returned to the surface he realized that he was till intact and his five senses were very much alive.

There were other creatures in the sea of fire that looked like huge worms. They would come to the surface and then disappear and then return to the surface. About 20 feet from him he saw them coming to the surface and they were coming towards him. When they reached him they began boring into him and went inside his body and brain and were coming out of his eyes. They were driving him insane. (where the worm dieth not) There is no end to these things in hell. They are eternal. There is no place to go for any relief. There is no love there. It is totally void of love. An emptiness beyond comprehension enveloped him.

Although there were many, many others there, there were no communications whatsoever. Your memory is also there still with you and you can remember everything that went on in your life, including each time the Gospel was presented to you and you refused.

He then was gripped with an intense thirst. There was no way to quench this thirst. (rich man and Lazarus) If the message of the Gospel is rejected you will be forever tormented in hell like the Bible so clearly says. The voice of God then echoed across the sea of fire and brimstone and lava telling hell to release him and he was returned back to his room. " (Dr. Michael Yeager)

So assuming that Dr. Michael Yeager really saw this... I began to wonder could the worms that he saw have been Super Strings and the lake of fire Super Waves?????

Did his consciousness go down and down to the subatomic level to show what is happening to us if we attempt to worship SELF????

 

[Dennis Tate]

We still don't need to.
To paraphrase: that quote doesn't mean what you (apparently) think it means.

Here the full quotation from the article that Stephen Hawking Ph. D. was involved in writing. The film about his life was based on the title of that article.

"It was not until 1920 that the idea of linking electromagnetism and
gravity resurfaced. At that time a new theory of gravitation had been proposed by Albert Einstein (1879-1955), called the general theory of relativity. It was a replacement of Newton's theory, which had stood unchallenged since 1687. Inspired by Einstein's work, a young German mathematician named Theodore Kaluza was seized by a curious idea. The theory of relativity links space an time together to form a four-dimensional space-time continuum. What would happen, mused Kaluza, if general relativity were formulated in five rather than four dimensions? This is what Kaluza did, and to everyone's astonishment it was discovered that five-dimensional gravity obeys the same laws as
four-dimensional gravity as well as Maxwell's laws for the electromagnetic field. In other words, gravitation and electromagnetism are automatically unified in five dimensions, where electromagnetism is merely a component of gravity!"

The only drawback of the theory concerns the extra dimension. Why
don't we see it? An ingenious answer was provided by Oskar Klein. A
hosepipe viewed from afar looks like a wiggly line, i.e. one- dimensional.
However, on closer inspection it can be seen as a narrow tube. It is, in fact,
two-dimensional, and what was taken to be a point on the line is actually a
little circle going around the tube. In the same way, reasoned Klein, what we normally regard as a point in three dimensional space could in reality be a little circle going around a fourth space dimension. Thus Kaluza's extra
dimension might well exist, but be impossible to detect because it is closed
(circular) and rolled up to a very small circumference. In spite of
these bizarre overtones, it seems probable that in future a "theory of everything" will make use of the idea of unseen higher dimensions."
....

"Although nature manifests four distinct forces, physicists believe that
each may be part of a smaller number of more primitive forces. At high energy, the electromagnetic and weak forces appear to merge into a single "electroweak" force. Some "grand unified theories" suggest that a further amalgamation takes place between the electroweak and strong forces at as yet unattained energies. The most ambitious unification schemes envisage an amalgamation of all four forces into a single "superforce" at ultra-high levels of energy."...

"The real burden in the next three centuries will not be the development of fancy mathematics, but the experimental testing of these ambitious theories. All current thinking about total unification assumes that the effects of linking all the forces and particles together will only become manifest at energies that are some trillion times greater than those currently attainable in particle accelerators. Probably we shall never reach such energies directly" ( A Theory of Everything" Volume 21 of "The World of Science)

​

The Theory of Everything (2014 film)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of_Everything_(2014_film)

At the University of Cambridge, astrophysics student Stephen Hawking begins a romantic relationship with literature student Jane Wilde. Although Stephen excels at mathematics and physics, his friends and professors are concerned over his lack of a thesis topic. After Stephen and his professor Dennis Sciama attend a lecture on black holes, Stephen speculates that black holes may have been part of the creation of the universe, and decides to write his thesis on them.

​

 

[river]

Self , is independence .

 

[Dennis Tate]

Self , is independence .

Interdependence is much more realistic.

You and I have been able to purchase food since COVID 19 hit but we did not have to plant a garden. The work ethic that farmers have makes our lives vastly better.

 

[river]

Interdependence is much more realistic.

You and I have been able to purchase food since COVID 19 hit but we did not have to plant a garden. The work ethic that farmers have makes our lives vastly better.

What work ethic ?

 

[Dennis Tate]

What work ethic ?

The work ethic of farmers, truck drivers, food factory workers and the workers stocking shelves make it possible for us to benefit greatly from each of our households not having to have a garden and a couple of cows and chickens in our yards.

We all benefit from the work ethic and honesty of people who repair the power lines that make it possible for you and I to be on a computer now.

 

[river]

The work ethic of farmers, truck drivers, food factory workers and the workers stocking shelves make it possible for us to benefit greatly from each of our households not having to have a garden and a couple of cows and chickens in our yards.

We all benefit from the work ethic and honesty of people who repair the power lines that make it possible for you and I to be on a computer now.

And ....

 

[Dennis Tate]

And ....

Our thinking that we are "independent" is something of an illusion.....
plus as we research we will find out that the universe and multiverse is teeming with life forms that assist us in ways that
we can't easily just guess.

 

[river]

Our thinking that we are "independent" is something of an illusion.....
plus as we research we will find out that the universe and multiverse is teeming with life forms that assist us in ways that
we can't easily just guess.

Highlighted

Disagree

Thinking sometimes is independent . Of the thinking of the time .

 

[Dennis Tate]

Highlighted

Disagree

Thinking sometimes is independent . Of the thinking of the time .

True... but I do believe that thinking that is ahead of the common thinking of the time is often
something passed to us.....
and not just simply due to our being smart.

Science, technology, and other benefits, they told me, had been gifts bestowed on humanity by them - through inspiration. People had literally been led to those discoveries, many of which had later been perverted by humanity to use for its own destruction." (Howard Storm)

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Highlighted

Disagree

Thinking sometimes is independent . Of the thinking of the time .

True... but I do believe that thinking that is ahead of the common thinking of the time is often
something passed to us.....
and not just simply due to our being smart.

Both .

 

[Luchito]

Luchito:

It seems to be your habit to bluster and preen, all while providing nothing in the way of actual evidence or argument to support your claims. The little you do say on the content of just about any subject tends to be wrong. I don't think I need to take you seriously.

Do you realise that you can't disprove evolution by attempting to insult in into non-existence? I don't know why you bother saying things like "evolution is dumb" or "relativity is dumb" or whatever. If you've got no arguments to offer up, nobody actually cares that you think those things are dumb.

Again, the theory of evolution was born with the idea that today species come from inferior, simpler and worst state species. This is why it is called "evolution". Do you get it now?

It happens that evolutionists found out that such principle is not true at all, so they tried a different theory called the Ne0-Darwinian theory of evolution. It was a compete different theory but the titles of the doctrines were kept.

Today, the theory still in the limbo, and plays not only two opposite sides but all sides as one. Today this theory for to be accepted implies "evolution" means any change. Such claim is so stupid, because we don't need a theory of science telling you that species change in any way, any form, and so forth.

If a species got extincted, the theory says, "oh, that is evolution"... ha ha ha ha. A dumb theory.

When you're talking to me, you might as well drop that act. It isn't advancing your case at all. You should start providing some reasons why evolution is wrong, or evolution doesn't work, or whatever. So far, you're just making yourself out to be another brainless science denier. It seems to me that you have the capacity to do a little better than that, at least. Want to try?

MY THEORY, which I posted in 1999-2000 says species only degenerate. Period.

My theory has been proved thousands of times, and never fails.

Look, I'm not only debunking those good for nothing theories but I'm providing the best theory ever made about species on earth. And MY THEORY is supported by the other branches of science, this is to say, it goes with agreement with them, the sure winner.

That's a silly claim you're making, if you stop to think about it.

Consider two groups of insects of the same species that, due to a small genetic variation, differ in the degree to which they look like leaves. Birds happen to like eating those insects, if they can find them. What do we expect to happen over time? Here's what: we expect that, over time, the birds will tends to eat more of the insects that have the worse camouflage. Some insects will be eaten before they reproduce. Over many generations, we would expect the insect population to be dominated by the better-camouflaged variant of this insect, because the numbers of worse-camouflaged insects will have been relatively more depleted due to bird attack.

In what sense would it be wrong to say that, in this example, over time the insect species as a whole has "adapted" to better camouflage itself?

Look, you are following the wrong path. To start, do you see wolves and rabbits in certain areas where snows in winter? Do they change the color of their skin? Do you think those two species have the capacity to "camouflage" in winter season by their own will, so they can hunt prey or escape from a predator?

Oh come one. Those two have not a single idea why their skin changes to white color and you too.

See? Now, I know why they change the color of their skin, and "camouflage" has nothing to do with such a change.

Same applies to all species, no one of them has control of the changes.

Your theory of evolution is a complete fiasco.

You seem muddled in your understanding of how the process works. It is important to realise that the variation between those insect groups was not produced by individuals developing a "power to adapt", or anything like that. The variation was a genetic accident, a random occurrence. Also note that, in this example, there was no change in the environment. Nevertheless, one group of insects was "better adapted", in the sense of having a greater chance of surviving. This is something you claim is impossible, without, of course, being able to back up your empty claim with anything, as usual.

Look, mutations won't make you better adapted, such is a fallacy. Change of no change in the environment, if something triggers a mutation, your descendants just will be lucky to survive with the new modification in their bodies.

We had several species same as the ones in the other continent crossing the Atlantic. The Spaniards weren't ignorant, they knew the difference between a tiger and a lion. They wrote there were lions in the discovered continent. And here in the American continent we had elephants, horses and more. It happens that several species died long ago by a strong change in the environment. Only the bulls survived as buffalo. No genetic accident, but a simple luck that bulls assimilate 75% of what they eat while horses assimilate only 25%.

Many species which die because human presence is not because they are not better adapted, it could be thousands of reasons why they will get extincted, and adaptation will have nothing to do with, same as the surviving species.

You better reconsider your thoughts about it, because you are not thinking but just repeating and repeating what others in the school input in our brain as brainwashing.

For a moment, wear my shoes and walk freely rejecting the theory of evolution. Just for a moment. Remember that such theory was idealized centuries ago, when science was in diapers. Today, there is no excuse to continue with a theory that was wrong from its very beginning and that continues to be wrong and plays the game of accepting any change happening in the species as "evolution". Example, the species had a mouth before and changed to a species without mouth, eyes, ears and legs, and you say: "Do you see? that species evolved".

Religion doesn't play such silly game, the God is good, period. The Bible doesn't p;ay as God being good and evil, like the Bible saying when something is good is God and when something is evil is God as well.

Religion is way more better than such theory of evolution. You can't deny this fact.

On the matter of "luck", I guess you could say that the better-camouflaged insects were "lucky" to get their particular genetic mutation, if you want to put it that way. But the fact that they would come to dominate the population of those insects has nothing to do with luck, once the variation is in place. The reason they come to dominate is natural selection, which, again, is something you deny the existence of.

Of course there is not such a "selection". Your term "natural selection" implies a selective event, and such is not what happens in the real world. Your theory implies beliefs. Unless you believe "nature" has a brain and causes modifications to certain species and extinction to others.

The causes are random, no one is in control, there is not a programing in order to be studied as such.

It seems clear that you have been poorly taught about evolution, and/or you have developed some bad misconceptions about it. I think you probably need to start again and learn what the theory is actually about. Then you'll be in a better position to discuss it without making yourself look like an idiot.

If you have questions, I can probably help you.

Help me?

Look. you have not a single clue why bacterta is not affected by antibiotics after a bad application of a treatment.

The ignorant believes such is "adaptation", such is a "super bacteria", such is evolution", bacteria is more "resistant".

And you believe that.

If you were to know the real reason, even if I prove it to you, you won't accept it and you will call it "evolution" anyway, even when the evidence tells you that such is not what happened.

If you are an evolutionist you have nothing to teach me, but surely you need a lot to learn.

You don't know how you know, then? Figures.

On the contrary, any reasonable introductory text on relativity will explain how and why time dilation occurs. Maybe you should try to acquire one.

This "debunking" of yours is an example of wisdom gifted to your by your God or your religion, is it?

Your God must be an insignificant God indeed, if this is the best he has to offer.

You will be disappointed. Neither Einstein nor his followers have never ever explained the process of dilatation of time, because... it never happens.

Go ahead, use Goggle, go to universities, go to NASA, go anywhere in the world, such explanation has never been given because relativity is not science, it doesn't fulfill the requirements of the scientific method.

Here, in this topic religion prevails over science, and religion will prevail forever.

Here there is wisdom against intellect, and so far, wisdom is taking it all.