Open Debate: Evolution.

[GeoffP]

I don't disagree with micro-evolution, thats a fact. But talking about humans evolved out of genetic garbage is a load of b.s.

Creationism should be taught in schools not crap about "dinosaurs" and "primitive man" and the "stone age" all this is a load of crap. The supreme reality is the Abrahamic faiths are the absolute holders of all truth written in riddles only the wise will understand. There should be a law anyone opposing this should be hanged.

Wow. That's beautiful. Tell me: how does that fit with the Quran that you wanted me to read and sent me links for? Is the hanging of people who believe in evolution part of Allah's beautiful plan for us? When you tried to get me to recite the shahada 300 times in your PM, was there anything about hanging people who disagree with the truth of the Abrahamic faiths, that truth so absolute that you don't seem to think it can tolerate reason and evolutionary theory?

Scientists have killed people; what a toss of crap. Right; they made you push buttons, they made you buy weapons, they made you kill. Right.

Did you have any kind of reasoned argument here, or is your response summed up by "accept Allah or die"?

Seems kind of ridiculous. What's the difference between Allah and dinosaurs? Well: both concepts spring out of our ancient past, but only dinosaurs were ever real.

 

[scibetel]

Could you imagine if the tables were turned and Muslim was asked to defend and explain everything written in the Quran? Ah, but there is a built-in defense: the Quran is a holy book, and, as such, it can't be read in any language other than Arabic and it is beyond interpretation. How convenient.

 

[GeoffP]

I would like to ask the propagators and the proliferators of the theory of evolution why would land animals (Side note: for the sake of argument we will also let humans fall into this category) which were originally in the sea as the theory of evolution states put themselves at a serious and catastrophic disadvantage if true that animals originally evolved out of fish like creatures. Why would animals evolve out of the sea and start colonizing the land?

To partially avoid predation. Because it was a niche that had been unexploited. We can see the same thing every time a roach invades a new space, or everytime you contract a new STD.

Why did the crabs move into your crotch? There were abundant resources elsewhere, so it doesn't make any sense for them to parasitize you. What happens if you take groin lice and put them in a toxic, malodorous environment? Well, apparently they thrive. They occupied a new niche, although a niche that I personally would rather die than be exposed to. They're already capable of living in crotches, you see, but were able to survive the transition even to yours.

This does not seem to make any sense – now I have herd the argument over and over again that the land was better for the animals as there was abundant of food and less threat, this argument is weak at best for the reason that. Adaptation to the new environment would have had to been rapid, what happens if you take a fish out of the see and put it on the land?

A fish that through chance picked up minor mutations that allowed it to explore the land for a few minutes or hours would have been able to avoid aquatic predators that could not. End of story. Never seen a lungfish?

It's amazing that this mental midget can't seem to figure out how evolution works. He's proposing arguments that haven't been seen for almost fifty years.

Furthermore, we would also see fossils that are going through a transition and are caught in the middle, just because something is “evolving” into another species doesn’t mean it can’t die why do we not find this in the fossil record?

WTF are you on about? That it should have died "right in the middle of a transformation"? Living things aren't bloody Transformers, you git. They don't sit down and change. Tell you what: look up the word "development" and "fertilization".

Sad.

 

[thedevilsreject]

Could you imagine if the tables were turned and Muslim was asked to defend and explain everything written in the Quran? Ah, but there is a built-in defense: the Quran is a holy book, and, as such, it can't be read in any language other than Arabic and it is beyond interpretation. How convenient.

i asked him about the part in the koran where it talks about mohammed marrying a six year old girl and raping her when she was 9, all he could come up with was a flame about me and my 'wife'

 

[scibetel]

i asked him about the part in the koran where it talks about mohammed marrying a six year old girl and raping her when she was 9, all he could come up with was a flame about me and my 'wife'

Exactly.

 

[Muslim]

i asked him about the part in the koran where it talks about mohammed marrying a six year old girl and raping her when she was 9, all he could come up with was a flame about me and my 'wife'

Actually, dude can you prove that?

I also explain that Mohamed didn't marry a six year old.

Tabari reports that Abu Bakr wished to spare Aisha the discomforts of a journey to Ethiopia soon after 615 CE, and tried to bring forward her marriage to Mut`am's son. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam, but if Aisha was already of marriageable age in 615 CE, she must have been older than nine in 622 CE.

So do not make lies up dude.

And its not like everyone was Mohammed's friend, it would have came them fuel to attack him even if he did marry a 6 year old. No one found anything wrong with Mohammed's marriage to Ashia not even his enemies. So your claims are a load of BS.

 

[Muslim]

Anyway, what I was saying was it was scientists who invented tools for humans to kill each other easily.

 

[Muslim]

No, my good fellow. Abrahamists have killed more people than anyone on the planet. For starters, the disciples of Abraham obliterated three of the world's six civilizations: Cushitic Egypt (Muslims did that), Aztec and Inca (Christians did that). Estimates of the number of aboriginal Americans killed by the Christian occupation of the New World go as high as a hundred million, but are certainly no less than twenty million. The various waves of Muslim conquerors that have swept across the Mideast and occasionally into Europe and Africa, including Moghuls, Arabs, and Ottomans, easily match that figure. The Crusades and the Holocaust rack up on the Christian side of the ledger, and the Muslims in modern Africa are keeping it a close race.

Even if you blame "scientists" for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as many people do, that wasn't even a large fraction of a million victims.

Only the Communists have surpassed the Nazi death toll and come close to matching that of either the Christians or the Muslims, but their sun is setting and they will never eclipse the performance of the sons of Abraham.

If there is one single development in the history of human civilization that has caused more suffering and destruction--including the irreplaceable loss of entire civilizations with everything they might have accomplished, which by any code of law must be the most unrepentable of all sins--it is the metastasis of the endless series of monotheistic, patriarchal, evangelical religions out of the Middle East that teach their followers to arrogantly assume they are superior to the rest of us and therefore can kill us without a qualm.

If there were a law to punish those whose belief systems appeal to the dark side of human nature and which bring civilization to the brink of destruction several times in every millennium, it would be the Christians, Muslims, and Jews who would be "hanged" by unmerciful, self-important tyrants. Thankfully there is no such law because for the most part the world is still run by rational, compassionate people who tolerate diversity no matter how much sorrow it causes.

What you talking about, they killed and destroyed evil empires. You should be thanking Abrahamic faiths for doing that.

80% of the world believes in a monotheistic god. Are you calling all these people idiots? Einstein arguably the greatest scientists to ever believed in a god - are you guys saying he was an Idiot?

 

[Muslim]

Wow. That's beautiful. Tell me: how does that fit with the Quran that you wanted me to read and sent me links for? Is the hanging of people who believe in evolution part of Allah's beautiful plan for us? When you tried to get me to recite the shahada 300 times in your PM, was there anything about hanging people who disagree with the truth of the Abrahamic faiths, that truth so absolute that you don't seem to think it can tolerate reason and evolutionary theory?

Scientists have killed people; what a toss of crap. Right; they made you push buttons, they made you buy weapons, they made you kill. Right.

Did you have any kind of reasoned argument here, or is your response summed up by "accept Allah or die"?

Seems kind of ridiculous. What's the difference between Allah and dinosaurs? Well: both concepts spring out of our ancient past, but only dinosaurs were ever real.

Actually doesn't have anything to do with that. Muslims don't have a problem with evolution, Muslims believe that god put the souls of adam and eve into already living homo Sapiens. God even mentions evolution theory in the Qu'ran thats where Darwin got his idea from.

 

[leopold]

Anyway, what I was saying was it was scientists who invented tools for humans to kill each other easily.

what about bows and arrows? guns?

you must be refering to atomic weapons.
that research was done in secret. it was so secret that the people working on it lived in their own community, had their own post office, every bit of their communication with the outside was monitored and edited.
if the general public got wind of what was happening there you can rest assured there would have been someone to sabotage the project.
the people that was working on the bomb was only told enough to carry out their research, no more.

 

[Muslim]

To partially avoid predation. Because it was a niche that had been unexploited. We can see the same thing every time a roach invades a new space, or everytime you contract a new STD.

Wtf? to avoid predation, how are they going to know? if there are going to be any predators or not. Makes no sense they would die off.

Why did the crabs move into your crotch? There were abundant resources elsewhere, so it doesn't make any sense for them to parasitize you. What happens if you take groin lice and put them in a toxic, malodorous environment? Well, apparently they thrive. They occupied a new niche, although a niche that I personally would rather die than be exposed to. They're already capable of living in crotches, you see, but were able to survive the transition even to yours.

That contradicts your argument, because I am the predator. So I have killed them all off now.

A fish that through chance picked up minor mutations that allowed it to explore the land for a few minutes or hours would have been able to avoid aquatic predators that could not. End of story. Never seen a lungfish?

:bugeye: Mutation is not evolution. Like I said I don't disagree with micro evolution, I am talking about saying humans evolved out of fish. Or there was a "stone age" and "primitive man" man was never "primitive" he was always civilized.

It's amazing that this mental midget can't seem to figure out how evolution works. He's proposing arguments that haven't been seen for almost fifty years.

But you're still have a hard time refuting them.

WTF are you on about? That it should have died "right in the middle of a transformation"? Living things aren't bloody Transformers, you git. They don't sit down and change. Tell you what: look up the word "development" and "fertilization".
Sad.

Oh so now you're saying they don't "evolve"?

 

[Muslim]

what about bows and arrows? guns?

you must be refering to atomic weapons.
that research was done in secret. it was so secret that the people working on it lived in their own community, had their own post office, every bit of their communication with the outside was monitored and edited.
if the general public got wind of what was happening there you can rest assured there would have been someone to sabotage the project.
the people that was working on the bomb was only told enough to carry out their research, no more.

Even guns, a scientist came up with gunpowder.

 

[scibetel]

God even mentions evolution theory in the Qu'ran thats where Darwin got his idea from.

OK, quote the passage for us, will you please?

 

[Muslim]

OK, quote the passage for us, will you please?

Why should I?

 

[Muslim]

If we take a look in Sura or chapter 59 verse 24, the verse talks about Allah the Creator, Allah the evolver and Allah the bestower of forms. Now two of our classic modern scholars have done very well-respected translations of the meaning of the Qur'an. Both regard these verses as relating to evolution. Mohammad Assad talks about this as meaning the development of the human embryo and he also regards it as alluding to the evolution of the human species.

Here is the actual verse:
"He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory; and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise." 59: - 24

 

[leopold]

Even guns, a scientist came up with gunpowder.

gunpowder was invented ages ago by the chinese
and it wasn't to kill people with but to celebrate their religious beliefs

 

[scibetel]

If we take a look in Sura or chapter 59 verse 24, the verse talks about Allah the Creator, Allah the evolver and Allah the bestower of forms. Now two of our classic modern scholars have done very well-respected translations of the meaning of the Qur'an. Both regard these verses as relating to evolution. Mohammad Assad talks about this as meaning the development of the human embryo and he also regards it as alluding to the evolution of the human species.

Here is the actual verse:
"He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory; and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise." 59: - 24

And this broad quote is where, so you said, Darwin got his idea?

 

[S.A.M.]

I hate to butt in but these are the verses which define evolution in the Quran:

“Do not the unbeliever see that the heaven and the earth were joined together, then we set them asunder and we got every living thing out of water. Will they then not believe?” (21:30)

“(God) created every animal from water.”(24:45)

 

[(Q)]

I hate to butt in but these are the verses which define evolution in the Quran:

“Do not the unbeliever see that the heaven and the earth were joined together, then we set them asunder and we got every living thing out of water. Will they then not believe?” (21:30)

“(God) created every animal from water.”(24:45)

Sorry, but that does not define evolution.

 

[scibetel]

I hate to butt in but these are the verses which define evolution in the Quran:

“Do not the unbeliever see that the heaven and the earth were joined together, then we set them asunder and we got every living thing out of water. Will they then not believe?” (21:30)

“(God) created every animal from water.”(24:45)

Anything just a bit more specific? Something that Darwin didn't know before he started? Come on, you can do it.