If possible...sure!
Jesus and the Cross
- Thread starter Bowser
- Start date
If Christ(God) made is possible, why argue it?
Two world wars in the last century? People give their lives and suffer for much less.
From your perspective. I think it quite beautiful.
Because it's wrong.
Stupidity doesn't make it right.
If you think it is "beautiful" to kill an innocent to forgive the guilty, then you are a monster.
See my reply above for James. People die simply by doing their jobs.
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
Or it could just come over time, after repeatedly asking people why they believe and not always being able to quell your own cognitive dissonance.
What? I thought you were a former Christian, who fully understood religion from an adult perspective.
Absolution in the eyes of God does not absolve one's personal responsibility. It absolves one of the mortal price of sin.
In less religious terms, it means you no longer have to compound your wrongs by justifying them.
No longer feeling to need to justify your past wrongs is the only way you accept the harm you've done and redress it.
People die.
I don't kill them.
It's not wrong.
It's right as rain, which is why he still lives in memory to this day.
Throwing insults won't prove your point.
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Your post is lost on me so can you please explain in greater depth what you mean?
Alex
I didn't accuse you of murder.
In any other perspective, in any other context, it would be considered wrong even by christians.
They just make themselves a special exception, free to commit murder, because somebody wrote a book that says an ancient middle eastern deity liked to see cattle bleed.
No, you asked me to be an accessory after the fact.
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Just an unsupported opinion but I think the believers I get to see at least ( the rational ones don't stand out) start life with low self esteem, which would not be helped by being told they are sinners etc and the priest uses the low self esteem to first make them feel wretched then like giving them a treat purk them up telling them that their sins and unworthyness has been overlooked...for now...and they won't burn forever and ever in Hell.
So they never act like an adult , grow up and take responsibility for their actions.
And there is no wonder they want another life chance they believe they have totally screwed up in this one.
Alex
Okay Jeeves. I don't want you to give yourself over to that which you find morally repugnant. I'm not trying to save anyone here--just a thread for discussion.
Okay Jeeves. I don't want you to give yourself over to that which you find morally repugnant. I'm not trying to save anyone here--just a thread for discussion.
What's worse is that you don't find it morally repugnant, which means the only lesson you have learned from it is that you don't have to take responsibility for your own actions and therefore can do or say whatever you want without consequences. You demonstrate it by wading so far into that quagmire, you wind up absolving Hitler for the atrocities he committed and the millions who died as a result. Then, you call it a gift?
Think real hard about this moral dilemma, my friend.
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
He seems so sincere ... it's not a scam is it?
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
The really sad thing I realise when I see people like this guy is imagine how he would go in a legitimate career... he would not need to be phony for a start...he would be probably a great lawyer, real estate agent accountant etc etc...I found in sales you did not need to "sell" as much as help folk actually make a decision...I would get folk who had to move because their house had sold and they were just too scared to make a decision..you had to be positive and help them face reality..buy this one its the best in the market and you need to move in four weeks...buy it or lets look ar something you can rent.....that guy could be a real help in some roll ...I expect the irony would be that someone who sent him money would perhaps lose their negativity and be more open to opportunity and actually find things get better for them.
Their attitude would change from expecting nothing to expecting something and in this world where opportunity is everywhere if you are expecting good things they usually appear.
Maybe thats his deal.
Like my mate who read tarot cards for a fee.
I said you are scamming .. he said that he saw it differently..he then said usually in a card reading folk will identify a problem that they avoid and find a mechanism from interpreting the cards to address their problem and because any decision is usually better than no decision they move on...he mentioned a guy that when a particular card came out he stated how he had not filed his tax returns for years and another card told him that filing them was a good idea...by his next card reading he had filed his returns and was happy and convinced the cards helped him...and when you think about it they did.
Alex.
Vociferous:
The part I don't understand about it is that it seems like that get-out-of-jail-free card I mentioned. You get to keep your ticket to heaven no matter how great your sin is, provided you jump through the hoops of confessional (not very onerous). Murdered somebody? Don't worry. Confess and Jesus will forgive you and you'll still get into heaven. Just make sure you don't die before you confess!
So, on the one hand we have God waving a big stick, saying "Don't be naughty, or you won't get into heaven!", but on the other hand he's saying (or his Holy Catholic Church is saying) "If you're naughty, just confess and it'll all be fine as far as your relationship with me is concerned. We can be good buddies and you can still come to heaven to be with me." It removes any religious incentive to avoid committing your next murder, doesn't it?
I already covered that in the statement you quoted: "You come to believe in something because you're convinced by something or someone that it is true, or because it feels like it is true to you."
Are you a Catholic, Vociferous, or born again Christian? I was neither of those. You sound like a Catholic, so maybe you can help clarify some things for me. I don't know where you got that thing about fully understanding from. I think you probably made that up. Why?
This is the Catholic idea, right? Mortal vs. venial sins and so on. Is it the same with the born agains?
The part I don't understand about it is that it seems like that get-out-of-jail-free card I mentioned. You get to keep your ticket to heaven no matter how great your sin is, provided you jump through the hoops of confessional (not very onerous). Murdered somebody? Don't worry. Confess and Jesus will forgive you and you'll still get into heaven. Just make sure you don't die before you confess!
So, on the one hand we have God waving a big stick, saying "Don't be naughty, or you won't get into heaven!", but on the other hand he's saying (or his Holy Catholic Church is saying) "If you're naughty, just confess and it'll all be fine as far as your relationship with me is concerned. We can be good buddies and you can still come to heaven to be with me." It removes any religious incentive to avoid committing your next murder, doesn't it?
What does religion add to that sentiment? Doesn't the religion actually undermine it?
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
The Jesus on the cross thing goes back to the Sun appearing to be where the Southern Cross is in the sky.
Alex
Alex
Weren't the Romans in the Northern Hemisphere? Did they know about the Southern Cross?