Jesus and the Cross

[Xelasnave.1947]

Weren't the Romans in the Northern Hemisphere? Did they know about the Southern Cross?

It is my tentative view that the Sun on the Cross, hence the human god on a cross idea must have been arrived at and or written about from a position (latitude) close to the great pyramid as this is where the "Sun on the cross" can be observed. It may be that the human gods built on astrology idea came from that latitude.
Alex

 

[paddoboy]

Weren't the Romans in the Northern Hemisphere? Did they know about the Southern Cross?

Perhaps surprisingly to some, Crux can be seen in parts of the Northern hemisphere, for at least part of the year...eg: Hawaii.

 

[paddoboy]

Perhaps surprisingly to some, Crux can be seen in parts of the Northern hemisphere, for at least part of the year...eg: Hawaii.

So Hawaii is around 20 degrees North Latitude, that would also include Northern Africa, which formed part of the Roman empire

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I read something that suggested that the Sun appears on the "Cross" mid winter where it appears to "die" ie it appears to stop it's journey South where it seems to stay put for three days before heading back North and that such will be observed from the region of the Great Pyramid...now I can't find that article but I keep meaning to look at a planetarium to see if that is so and if there are other spots where such and observation could be made and in general test the idea..however I don't get around to it and wait until I find something on the net...it's not a priority but the implications are interesting.
Alex

 

[Vociferous]

What? I thought you were a former Christian, who fully understood religion from an adult perspective.

Are you a Catholic, Vociferous, or born again Christian? I was neither of those. You sound like a Catholic, so maybe you can help clarify some things for me. I don't know where you got that thing about fully understanding from. I think you probably made that up. Why?

I'm sure you'll forgive me not remembering your background, as I've told you directly that I'm not a Catholic, nor even a Christian.
http://sciforums.com/threads/the-parable-of-the-absent-parents.162790/page-6#post-3622283 (last paragraph)
I must have confused you with someone else. Mea culpa.

This is the Catholic idea, right? Mortal vs. venial sins and so on. Is it the same with the born agains?

I'm not that versed in Catholicism. "Mortal" as in "the wages of sin is death".

The part I don't understand about it is that it seems like that get-out-of-jail-free card I mentioned. You get to keep your ticket to heaven no matter how great your sin is, provided you jump through the hoops of confessional (not very onerous). Murdered somebody? Don't worry. Confess and Jesus will forgive you and you'll still get into heaven. Just make sure you don't die before you confess!

It's only real absolution if there is genuine contrition and atonement, which would preclude repeat offense. This is why Catholic confession seems rather superficial to other denominations. So most denominations would likely agree with you on that count.

So, on the one hand we have God waving a big stick, saying "Don't be naughty, or you won't get into heaven!", but on the other hand he's saying (or his Holy Catholic Church is saying) "If you're naughty, just confess and it'll all be fine as far as your relationship with me is concerned. We can be good buddies and you can still come to heaven to be with me." It removes any religious incentive to avoid committing your next murder, doesn't it?

You'd probably have to ask a Catholic.

What does religion add to that sentiment? Doesn't the religion actually undermine it?

If anything, religion is the only cultural influence that actively promotes voluntary contrition and atonement. Heck, even AA, with their step to make amends, usually meet in churches.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

If believing He died for you could provide you an egress into a whole new life, could you?

Hi Bowser,

Old Testament Prophecy is one reason among many others, that I trust in God. And this was no mere man that died for us. It was the very God who made us.

Did you also know that the Mountain of God has been discovered in Saudi Arabia?

Over 3000 years ago the Gospel was placed in symbolic form on that Mountain as a Prophecy and a Testament to the World.

Hospital Death experiences where people have died on the operating table and been brought back are also very real and strong evidence for life after death.

My Dad was healed physically by God, through a miracle.

And there is so much more evidence for God.

God Bless You!

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Atheists are warning that Christianity may be necessary for the survival of Western civilization

https://thebridgehead.ca/2020/05/19...ary-for-the-survival-of-western-civilization/

Perhaps you might find this interesting.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Hi Bowser

He has been permanently banned.

And this was no mere man that died for us.

You are not familiar with the multitude of human gods with the same MO which on any reasonable assessment calls the whole story into question...well of course I know your answer but I had to put it out there...I like studying the history and the links to astrology and wonder why believers never find out the apparent true story.

Did you also know that the Mountain of God has been discovered in Saudi Arabia?

No..I thought there were a couple...lucky they found it..

Hospital Death experiences where people have died on the operating table and been brought back are also very real and strong evidence for life after death.

Mmmm do you think so?
I guess it is if you want to believe it's more than it presumably is.

My Dad was healed physically by God, through a miracle.

He was lucky most folk need a doctor.

And there is so much more evidence for God.

I know but I never get to see any.
Alex

 

[(Q)]

My Dad was healed physically by God, through a miracle.

And there is so much more evidence for God.

God Bless You!

Wow, and here we are, paying for medical insurance, hospital bills, medications and a bloated system when all the while God could just heal us all. Maybe Seti could explain why we just don't close down all the hospitals and fire all the doctors? Maybe he could also explain why there are currently around 360,000 Covid 19 deaths?

Or, maybe he just cease and desist his ignorant, callous and idiotic claims?

 

[Tiassa]

Or, maybe he just cease and desist his ignorant, callous and idiotic claims?

Well, his understanding of religion does not seem to have grown much since converting from atheism. Of course, crackpots who need to redefine religion↗, to simplify↗, in order to have an argument at all↗, because otherwise it's just too hard to be a ranting bigot, might not notice the lack of difference.

 

[(Q)]

Well, his understanding of religion dones not seem to have grown much since converting from atheism.

Converting from atheism would mean one had lost their reason, logic, rationale, integrity and sanity.

Of course, crackpots who need to redefine religion↗, to simplify↗, in order to have an argument at all↗, because otherwise it's just too hard to be a ranting bigot, might not notice the lack of difference.

Could you point out exactly where Seti was redefining religion?

 

[Tiassa]

Could you point out exactly where Seti was redefining religion?

With reading comprehension like that, don't be surprised that anyone might find your assessments and definitions unreliable.

 

[(Q)]

With reading comprehension like that, don't be surprised that anyone might find your assessments and definitions unreliable.

So, you're saying Seti was not redefining religion? Why bother wasting everyone's time with such a pointless comment then? You're the one always complaining about the content being posted here, then you turn around and do it yourself. Hypocrite.

 

[Tiassa]

So, you're saying Seti was not redefining religion? Why bother wasting everyone's time with such a pointless comment then? You're the one always complaining about the content being posted here, then you turn around and do it yourself. Hypocrite.

Here, let's go through it:

Well, his understanding of religion does not seem to have grown much since converting from atheism. Of course, crackpots who need to redefine religion↗, to simplify↗, in order to have an argument at all↗, because otherwise it's just too hard to be a ranting bigot, might not notice the lack of difference.

(#50↑)​

The first sentence in that responds to you, when you commented that maybe SA6 "just cease and desist his ignorant, callous and idiotic claims". What I said is that SA6's understanding of religion does not seem to have grown much since converting from atheism. The second sentence acknowledges "crackpots who need to redefine religion, to simplify, in order to have an argument at all", and observes they might not notice the lack of difference. That is to say, they might not notice the lack of difference about SA6's understanding. Moreover, that sentence links to three posts, as examples, that are not written by SA6. More particularly, you wrote them. And the thing is, you already know this, because we went through it back in March↗.

So, like I said: With reading comprehension like that, don't be surprised that anyone might find your assessments and definitions unreliable.

Then again, the reliability of your assessments was already in doubt, because you apparently need to dumb down what religion is in order to be able to criticize it.

As to what I was saying about our neighbor, SA6, I can clarify by reaching back to November↗ and simply reiterating what I told someone else:

• If you go back in site history to SA6's conversion, you might find he is very much akin to Poe's Law insofar as his religious utterances have generally read more like atheistic parodies of faith; its kind of hard to tell the difference 'twixt the before and after. Our neighbor might be genuine, as such, and thus a living example of why some people need religion. But, remember, his former atheism was overcome by this sort of balbutive, and over the years he has not really gotten any better at it. And I still don't understand why people let themselves be led around like this, except maybe I do, but they wouldn't like the explanation.​

You managed to set yourself up in an unenviable position: Either your reading comprehension is so awry, or else you really are that clumsy and brutish in your zeal. These years later, you certainly haven't gotten any smarter about it.

 

[(Q)]

Here, let's go through it:

Well, his understanding of religion does not seem to have grown much since converting from atheism. Of course, crackpots who need to redefine religion↗, to simplify↗, in order to have an argument at all↗, because otherwise it's just too hard to be a ranting bigot, might not notice the lack of difference.

(#50↑)​

The first sentence in that responds to you, when you commented that maybe SA6 "just cease and desist his ignorant, callous and idiotic claims". What I said is that SA6's understanding of religion does not seem to have grown much since converting from atheism.

That's hilarious, you actually believe Seti converted from atheism? He would have had to have lost his mind considering how deluded, ignorant and incapable of rational thought to have ever been an atheist. He was never an atheist, that's far too obvious. It's hard to believe you actually thought he was. How naive could you be.

The second sentence acknowledges "crackpots who need to redefine religion, to simplify, in order to have an argument at all", and observes they might not notice the lack of difference. That is to say, they might not notice the lack of difference about SA6's understanding. Moreover, that sentence links to three posts, as examples, that are not written by SA6. More particularly, you wrote them. And the thing is, you already know this, because we went through it back in March↗.

No idea what you're talking about. "We" have never been through anything of the sort, whatever you believe that is. I don't redefine religion, I respond to what people say about their beliefs. And, if you can find anywhere where I have actually redefined religion, please do post it here or shut the fuck up.

So, like I said: With reading comprehension like that, don't be surprised that anyone might find your assessments and definitions unreliable.

Then again, the reliability of your assessments was already in doubt, because you apparently need to dumb down what religion is in order to be able to criticize it.

You managed to set yourself up in an unenviable position: Either your reading comprehension is so awry, or else you really are that clumsy and brutish in your zeal. These years later, you certainly haven't gotten any smarter about it.

Ah yes, the typical egocentric, narcissistic, I'm-smarter-than-everyone-else bullshit you always spout, continuously having to reaffirm that we're all dolts and you're the forums intellectual giant we should all bow down and praise because our content is beneath you. How bitter and pathetic you've gotten over the years.

 

[Tiassa]

No idea what you're talking about. "We" have never been through anything of the sort, whatever you believe that is. I don't redefine religion, I respond to what people say about their beliefs. And, if you can find anywhere where I have actually redefined religion, please do post it here or shut the fuck up.

Since I linked to the example, I think you need to answer. You even quoted the links. Lying is not a useful argument, (Q).

Ah yes, the typical egocentric, narcissistic, I'm-smarter-than-everyone-else bullshit you always spout, continuously having to reaffirm that we're all dolts and you're the forums intellectual giant we should all bow down and praise because our content is beneath you. How bitter and pathetic you've gotten over the years.

It's not that I'm smarter than everyone else; Sciforums is a small marketplace, and while you're just not that good at this stuff in general, you did actually fail rather particularly with that clumsy but believable pretense of stupidity.

 

[(Q)]

Since I linked to the example, I think you need to answer. You even quoted the links. Lying is not a useful argument, (Q).

Here's what I said: believing in God IS religion

Here's the online definition: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

So, how the fuck did I redefine religion?

It's not that I'm smarter than everyone else

Yet, you want to make sure everyone knows it.

Sciforums is a small marketplace, and while you're just not that good at this stuff in general, you did actually fail rather particularly with that clumsy but believable pretense of stupidity.

And, there you go again. So bitter, so pathetic.

 

[Tiassa]

So, how the fuck did I redefine religion?

Well, I did post a sketch of that, over six years ago↗, but you just ducked out↗. And as I said back then↗, it certainly makes it easier to criticize "religion" if you have no obligation to comprehend what you're criticizing.

And, there you go again. So bitter, so pathetic.

Are you actually going to do anything more than pick fights and cry↗? I mean, you did say something about infinite brawling, but that also seems more your specialty.

(Yes, really: Your return performance↗ certainly wasn't constructive; in fact, that's↗ pretty↗ much↗ how↗ you↗ roll↗°.)​

Meanwhile, vis à vis this thread, raising Bowser, as some have, or SetiAlpha6, as some sort of idols is no more productive than elevating Jan, or any other meaningless balbutive some people apparently don't know any better than to take seriously. SA6 was not convincing as a witness unto Christ, struck his best rhythm in his later agnostic turned cynical anti-Christian period, and has been a Poe's Law paper doll in his reaffirmed faith. Bowser, for his part, was pushing an increasingly superficial alt-troll routine, and there is some complicated history about how his behavior finally became his downfall, but he had previously found defenders willing to tolerate it for the sake of other sympathies.

I have noted before that some seem so anxious to be led around by bullshit in order to complain about theists, they will let anybody pretending a halfassed whiff of religion say whatever. That's probably more important a consideration on occasions when people pretend some care about the harms inflicted by religious belief and behavior; those in for the infinite brawl will continue to seize any halfassed whiff of a pretense for an excuse.
____________________

Notes:

° I'm not overlooking when you turned your form toward Trump and white supremacism↗, but no, you don't get a medal for that one; and, sure, there was the bit about baseball, but even that was just a cheap joke↗.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I have noted before that some seem so anxious to be led around by bullshit in order to complain about theists, they will let anybody pretending a halfassed whiff of religion say whatever.

Please reduce this to specifics. As you may suspect those who reject religion consider it unworthy of serious involvement and perhaps being on that side of the fence I can understand that approach and indeed accept it to be reasonable. You seem to be prepared to extend a serious consideration of religion suggesting you think it deserves a better treatement than it is given by the ignorant Athiest...what approach should the athiest take if he thinks he is dealing with nonsense and make believe..is there a respect you contend that should be extended to a theist and if so what is it in your view. I am not entirely sure what it is that you expect and although you are most eloquent in expression I find I can not identify exactly what it is that you expect..I know it must be me but perhaps you could take some time to explain your view upon religion generally. I expect your education and background has given you an approach that say someone such as myself, a poorly educated person, has not had opportunity to understand.. what I expect must be some higher level of assessment that in my case I simply do not see..Is it wrong or rather uninformed to regard religion as just some superstitious hang on from our past..can anything positive be said for it in your view?
Indeed it may be political cement but at it's core are we not dealing with make believe to manage humans.
Alex

 

[(Q)]

Well, I did post a sketch of that, over six years ago↗, but you just ducked out↗.

So, you're obsessing over something you posted but didn't get a response to over six years ago? That's creepy.

Are you actually going to do anything more than pick fights and cry↗?

Says the guy who obsesses by following me around crying and trying to pick a fight because I ignored his post six years ago. Really creepy.

I mean, you did say something about infinite brawling, but that also seems more your specialty.

Says the guy who obsesses by following me around about something that happened six years ago. Creepy.

(Yes, really: Your return performance↗ certainly wasn't constructive; in fact, that's↗ pretty↗ much↗ how↗ you↗ roll↗°.)

So, you're obsessing about me to tell me how I roll? Still creepy.​

Meanwhile, vis à vis this thread, raising Bowser, as some have, or SetiAlpha6, as some sort of idols is no more productive than elevating Jan, or any other meaningless balbutive some people apparently don't know any better than to take seriously. SA6 was not convincing as a witness unto Christ, struck his best rhythm in his later agnostic turned cynical anti-Christian period, and has been a Poe's Law paper doll in his reaffirmed faith. Bowser, for his part, was pushing an increasingly superficial alt-troll routine, and there is some complicated history about how his behavior finally became his downfall, but he had previously found defenders willing to tolerate it for the sake of other sympathies.

I have noted before that some seem so anxious to be led around by bullshit in order to complain about theists, they will let anybody pretending a halfassed whiff of religion say whatever. That's probably more important a consideration on occasions when people pretend some care about the harms inflicted by religious belief and behavior; those in for the infinite brawl will continue to seize any halfassed whiff of a pretense for an excuse.

You appear to be under the impression that I actually care what you think

____________________

Notes:

° I'm not overlooking when you turned your form toward Trump and white supremacism↗, but no, you don't get a medal for that one; and, sure, there was the bit about baseball, but even that was just a cheap joke↗.

Well, we can't all be intellectual giants like you.