Existence of god

[spidergoat]

That "silly" teaching has probably saved people's lives. That teaching has probably put an end to bitter hostilities, animosities and revenge.

Where and when?

 

[Mazulu]

Islam is actually a religion of peace. Your view is a bit…narrow, Mazulu. Expand thy mind. Read the Qur'an and Muhammad's words, known as hadith, some time. Be prepared to be amazed. (and you didn't read the entire page in that link )

OK, I could use some "amazement".

 

[gmilam]

You think I'm lying? You don't think there are bold and courageous people in the world who are willing to risk their life to protect others? It's sure as hell not a human response in atheist China where people are routinely afraid/unwilling to help others. A lot of it has to do with a belief in God and a moral instinct for right and wrong. Remember that atheists are not courageous people; atheists are mechanically logical like Baleron. Atheists experience no passion or feelings of any kind. Feelings only get in the way of atheist logic.

There is something inherently wrong with atheists. They're like intellectual zombies trying to pass for human, but they're not. They have no feelings, only logic. They're more like machines, they're not human beings with a soul

"Atheists experience no passion or feelings of any kind."? Pure bullshit.

Are you saying that if you found out for certain that there is no god, you would become an unfeeling asshole? This tells us a lot more about you than it does about atheists.

 

[wegs]

OK, I could use some "amazement".

I'm not promoting Islam over any other religion certainly, but if you gain a deeper understanding of Islam, it just may dispel any bias you might have towards it.

Always be open to learning something new.

 

[Mazulu]

"Atheists experience no passion or feelings of any kind."? Pure bullshit.

Are you saying that if you found out for certain that there is no god, you would become an unfeeling asshole? This tells us a lot more about you than it does about atheists.

What if you atheists found yourselves as a minority in a world full of unfeeling assholes? If Jesus doesn't exist, then he never said, "Love thy neighbor". He never said, "turn the other cheek". Or if God doesn't exist, then he was just some nutcase with some stupid ideas. But go ahead. Let's let atheists erode the moral protections that make us nice people.

 

[Mazulu]

I'm not promoting Islam over any other religion certainly, but if you gain a deeper understanding of Islam, it just may dispel any bias you might have towards it. Always be open to learning something new.

Actually, atheists find it easy to attack Christianity because Christianity is so tolerant. Even the most hateful Christians are carrying signs, not AK-47's. There are six countries in the world where atheists are routinely killed for blasphemy. Most of them are Islamic countries. So maybe "turn the other cheek" and "love thy neighbor as thyself" is saving the lives of atheists.

 

[gmilam]

What if you atheists found yourselves as a minority in a world full of unfeeling assholes?

Apparently, we already are.

 

[Mazulu]

Apparently, we already are.

As you keep eroding the American culture, you will cause America to go the way of Egypt. A once great nation that has devolved into an Islamic fascist state that kills infidels and atheists.

 

[gmilam]

As you keep eroding the American culture, you will cause America to go the way of Egypt. A once great nation that has devolved into an Islamic fascist state that kills infidels and atheists.

Uh, Muslims believe in the same god that Christians do...

I rest my case.

 

[spidergoat]

As you keep eroding the American culture, you will cause America to go the way of Egypt. A once great nation that has devolved into an Islamic fascist state that kills infidels and atheists.

So, it's not that you don't like atheists, you don't like non-Christians. It's not enough that people believe in god, they have to believe in YOUR god. And like gmilam said, they are pretty much the same thing anyway.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Who said the universe is chaotic?

I thought you said it, but perhaps I misunderstood you. Do you think that order emerged from the original chaos, then?

 

[spidergoat]

As you keep eroding the American culture, you will cause America to go the way of Egypt. A once great nation that has devolved into an Islamic fascist state that kills infidels and atheists.

Wow, atheists are so powerful! Why would everyone lose their faith if it's so strong?

 

[wynn]

The level on which atheists rely, is the same level theists rely upon.

I seriously doubt that. On principle, there should be a significant difference.

There is no difference between the atheist and theist, other than what they believe. Other than that there are no discriminatory favours which are enjoyed by one, and not had by the other.

In which case, there is no point in being a theist, and accepting Pascal's Wager isn't an act of common sense.

Theists looking for that God on tap type of religious get out of jail free card, usually end up being atheists because there is nothing to gain materially from believing in God.

Maybe not materially, but otherwise certainly.

If you're in the shit, you're in the shit. How we deal with it, will determine our true state of mind.

This is a truism. And I'm saying that theists on principle have the opportunity to deal with trouble differently than atheists.


Bhava, birth, should be understood to refer to the body. As far as the soul is concerned, there is neither birth nor death; that we have discussed in the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Birth and death apply to one's embodiment in the material world. Fear is due to worrying about the future. A person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has no fear because by his activities he is sure to go back to the spiritual sky, back home, back to Godhead. Therefore his future is very bright. Others, however, do not know what their future holds; they have no knowledge of what the next life holds. So they are therefore in constant anxiety. If we want to get free from anxiety, then the best course is to understand Kṛṣṇa and be situated always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In that way we will be free from all fear. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (11.2.37) it is stated, bhayaḿ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syāt: fear is caused by our absorption in the illusory energy. But those who are free from the illusory energy, those who are confident that they are not the material body, that they are spiritual parts of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and who are therefore engaged in the transcendental service of the Supreme Godhead, have nothing to fear. Their future is very bright. This fear is a condition of persons who are not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Abhayam, fearlessness, is possible only for one in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
http://vedabase.net/bg/10/4-5/

The necessities of the material world are four -- ahara, nidra, bhaya and maithuna (eating, sleeping, defending and mating). In this material world, everyone is in fearful consciousness (sada samudvigna-dhiyam), and the only means to make everyone fearless is Krsna consciousness. When Lord Nrsimhadeva appeared, all the devotees became fearless. The devotee's hope of becoming fearless is to chant the holy name of Lord Nrsimhadeva. Yato yato yami tato nrsimhah: wherever we go, we must always think of Lord Nrsimhadeva. Thus there will be no fear for the devotee of the Lord.
http://vedabase.net/sb/7/9/5/en2

Etc. etc. Look up abhayam: http://vedabase.net/a/abhayam

You're making the assumption (again) that theist's don't have the same reliant-ness, on others, as atheists.

Because they don't; or at least have no need to.
Belief in God has to make some kind of difference in one's life, otherwise, it is nonsensical to talk about belief in God.
What I'm saying is in line with the scriptures.

 

[wynn]

What does it matter if people other than yourself, loved ones, community, even broader community, aren't suffering?
I'm not saying it doesn't matter, I'm just asking why it matters.

Here's another factor for the seeming empathy and compassion, even for strangers: Experiencing one's problems or attempting to deal with one's own problems vicariously by focusing on the problems of others. This happens when one feels overwhelmed by one's problems, and/or when one hasn't figured out a viable stance on the "big issues of life" (however one conceives of them, but they usually revolve around birth, aging, illness, death, separation and oppression).
So when such a person expresses concern over some stranger's problems, it's not due to actually being concerned about that person's problems, but being concerned over one's own problems, while facing one's own problems directly seems too daunting. Focusing on other people's suffering because focusing on one's own is too demanding, overwhelming. - Like they say, "Other people's burdens are easier to bear than one's own."

 

[rr6]

I Care

Answer from the universe: who cares. Go find your joy in life.

I care, ergo I ask the question.

Simple, not complex, yet you have no answer, certainly no answer thats addresses the question specifically rationality and with logic. imho.

Soul-1 = biological
..see emotions, chemistry etc....

Soul-2 = pattern / geometry etc.
..see mind/intelligence etc....

These are the scientific facts for defining soul.

r6

 

[Jan Ardena]

Is ''love thy enemy'' something that a theist would embrace at any level?

The potential is there.

jan.

 

[Mazulu]

Wow, atheists are so powerful! Why would everyone lose their faith if it's so strong?

Maybe you are right. Maybe I am the one who is wrong for talking to atheists. There is still 5x more unknown mass-energy content in the universe then known matter (standard model). Maybe there are invisible/undetectable fields out there that naturally shape themselves to our neural network, our brains. Maybe these invisible/undetectable fields retain consciousness even when we die. The fact that they haven't been detected doesn't really mean anything. You're right spidergoat! Faith is still a beautiful and good thing to have.

 

[Write4U]

I thought you said it, but perhaps I misunderstood you. Do you think that order emerged from the original chaos, then?

What you see is what evolved from the initial chaos. Seems orderly to me. We have even been able to recognize some of the universal constants (such as the fundamental causal forces) and fashion equations which allow us to make future predictions. This would be impossible in chaos.

 

[Seattle]

God is irrelevant to most of these comments. If you believe in God and volunteer for some project or if you give a person a gift you generally feel good doing so. If you don't believe in God and perform these same acts you get the same feeling.

If you imagine a world in which there is no God (as a matter of fact) and then compare it to our world it is a perfect match. This doesn't mean there is no God but it certainly suggests that that if there is one it's irrelevant.

 

[Write4U]

W4U,
IMHO, the truth of "apparent spiritual connectedness" may be found in the function of our "mirror" neural network, through which we experience emotions such as Empathy, from which compassion springs, from which the "golden rule" emerged as a Virtue. The same evolutionary process results in the concepts of Love, Compassion, Respect.
But we are by no means the only animal with mirror neural networks, though they may be adapted to their specific environment. Have you ever watched "field trials'
The mental connection of long distance communication between the hunter and his dog is truly astounding. These dogs are trained for mirror responses to a series of visual or auditory commands. The amazing part is that the dog LOVES it, and in addition their performance will be rewarded with approval and a tasty tidbit.

Jan Ardena,
You're right. I remember watching a documentary about a couple who were left stranded in the Caribean Sea. They went out on a scheduled snorkeling trip, and stayed in the water too long. The captain didn't notice they weren't in the boat with the other passengers, and sailed off back to port. When the couple emerged, they found themselves alone, way out in the sea. Eventually they attracted the attention of sharks who were circling them. Suddenly, (to cut a long story short) a group of dolphins formed an inner-circle between them and the sharks, and protected them. It was amazing.

Yes, I recall a 300 lbs silverback gorilla protecting a young boy, who had fallen into the gorilla compound, from other younger gorilla males. He cradled the unconscious boy's head in his lap and stroked his face with a finger the length of the boys head. It was a clear act of compassion and protection of an infant from another species.

However, this confirms that moral behavior is not exclusive to humans or a result of biblical teaching. Morality exists naturally and it is practiced naturally. It evolved independent of Scripture, especially in social animals.