Existence of god

Discussion in 'Religion' started by shivansh, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I think Mazulu is demonstrating vividly what is wrong with believing (think Pascal's Wager). To apparently see no joy in life without religion is to show the great harm that religion is doing to him (and others) and that's totally needless.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
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  3. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps. Considering Pascal's Wager favors Christianity, I beg to differ with that view. How a religion that breeds fear can be seen as liberating, is beyond me.
     
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  5. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Religions were created to communicate different simple social rules. For instance, Judaism was created to communicate the value of Truth. Christianism was created to communicate Love. Islam was created to communicate Peace. Of course, the religions were perverted so, we have events like the Crusades happening. But most importantly, one must note that Truth, Love and Peace can never be experienced separately, as they are different aspects of one state of consciousness.
     
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  7. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Which, incidentally, they all call "God". And Jesus even speaks of it, "Father", "Son" and "Holy Spirit". Three aspects of the same state of consciousness.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No, most importantly, all these religions were perverted so events like the Crusades and Jihads did (and do)happen.

    Thus logic would tell us that these avenues are not the way to Truth, Love, and Peace, because they ARE corrupted and perverted. This is what science has demonstrated.

    And you are right, religions were created to control simple people who knew nothing about the universe. Even the people who wrote the scriptures were ignorant of the way the universe works, thus none of it was from "knowledge" but from interpretations of apparent miraculous events. This goes back to the early hominids, perhaps millions of years ago.

    But what does any of this have to do with Truth, Love, and Peace, when these religions condone murder in the name of God?

    IMO, the philosophy of Humanism (and its extensions to the natural world) does advocate Love and Peace, but wisely leave Truth to be discovered by Science.
    Cosmic Truth is far from Loving and Peaceful. It started from Chaos.
     
  9. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    What I am having trouble with is that science has not found the soul. That means we are just soulless animals. That bothers me significantly. Many years ago, when I was young, when I was a soldier, I had walked up the street to the local convenient store for a snack. As I approached, there was a young lady who was being attacked by a man (her date). Back then, I felt honor, I felt bravery, and I felt compassion, I felt all those things that were part of me, part of my spiritual nature, and so I acted. I charged the man (I had no idea if the man had a gun or not); I charged and he withdrew to his car and drove away. We called the cops, I attended to the woman's wounds, and walked her home. I did these things because I believed that there was God and good acting in the world. I believed in virtues and moral duty.

    But the world has changed. Science is killing religion, culture and the soul of America. Science tells us to have values like expediency, not compassion, not love, not bravery, not honor. What atheists would risk their life for a stranger? Please answer me that question?
     
  10. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    Pascal's wager is what's wrong with atheist and science. You should embrace God because you feel something in your heart, in your soul. Not because you are managing risk. It's like you atheists are partly dead, it's like you have no feelings. You feel nothing inside.
     
  11. Balerion Banned Banned

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    That seems to be how you're feeling, not us.
     
  12. Balerion Banned Banned

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    What would make you think an atheist cares less for his fellow man than a theist?
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    IMO it is the other way around. Religions, by their very exclusivity, demand obedience only to their interpretation and lifestyle. Anything outside of scripture is evil and must be eradicated, in the name of their particular truth (thou shalt have no false gods.......)
     
  14. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    They were meant to communicate Truth, Love and Peace, but because society is not in a state of harmony, they communicate the opposite. One could say that, perhaps, they are not in harmony with the knowledge of society, as we gained more knowledge, so there is conflict between the religions and society.
     
  15. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, and perhaps the universe is not chaotic, we just don't know enough to determine what is actually occurring.
     
  16. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    No, we have feelings. We just don't have faith in a monkey man. That's it. Otherwise we are the same. We just don't believe in voodoo.
     
  17. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Not to mention that Pascal's Wager is neither atheistic or scientific.
     
  18. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you need to care for your fellow man?

    Why does it matter to you if people die as a result of the bombing campaign in Iraq by America?

    jan.
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Who said the universe is chaotic?
     
  20. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    Maybe it's not atheists, maybe it's just you. Have you ever thought of getting your emotion chip replaced? Maybe then you'll pass for human.
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Seems that both the WTC and the subsequent bombing of Iraq were committed by religious people (who believed even in the same god) on both sides. Apparently it did not matter to them that innocent people would die as a result. Can't lay that one at the doorstep of atheists.

    Your arguments are becoming more and more desperate and disparate. You equate atheism with evil. Another biblical fallacy!!!!!!!
     
  22. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Firstly, I didn't, and don't equate atheism with evil, I am using the exact meaning of ''atheist'' (a person who does not believe in God).
    Secondly, I didn't make an argument, I simply asked questions regarding ''why?'', if a person doesn't believe in God, is there a need to care for those people. Maybe other animal species would care if their fellow species were being killed mercylessly in a different part of the world. I don't know. But I doubt it. Why does it matter to an atheist?

    I'm not saying that all theists automatically care, but there is scope to connect with ones fellow man through compassion, and empathy, which can be directly understood through God, not only for our fellow man, but for all forms of life. To what degree do atheists care about peopl,e who are not only thousands of miles away, but are not related in anyway to their life and life patterns, and why should they care??

    This is a serious question, with no implication or judgement.


    jan.
     
  23. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, even more so. While theists may be depending on God to provide for them, atheists don't have that recourse, and have to rely on other people much more.


    "Compassion, and empathy, which can be directly understood through God" -?? What do you mean?
    In what way is any consideration (or belief in God) necessary in order to experience compoassion and empathy?


    There's probably an element of innate, automatic empathy, compassion for other beings of one's own kind, esp. if those beings are experienced in a more abstract way (such as via news reports on tv). It's easy to feel empathy, compassion for people who are on the other end of the world.

    Secondly, there is probably an element of concern over cosmic justice and victim mentality in an atheist's caring about strangers - as if to say "Look, people are suffering all over the world, innocent people. This is just further proof that God either doesn't exist, or doesn't care or is evil."
     

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