Dear Believers, prove your god or gods is/aren't just fiction(s).

DaveC426913 said:
There you have it. You have an opinion.

The opinion you have, that God explains the universe, is not evidence. You just like it.
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Nope.
It is the best explanation of the evidence.
The best evidence to date regarding the origin of the universe is the Big Bang theory.
So I regard it as evidence.
Anyway fancy moving on?
 
Trek said:
Some do.
It’s called abiogenesis.
Life emerging from non life.
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Clearly, there are a few options:

1. Life emerged from non-life; or
2. Life sprang into existence from nothing; or
3. Life always existed.

No evidence points to the need for a god to enable options 1 or 3. Option 3 is probably ruled out anyway, because big bang.

It seems that magic is only required if option 2 is true.

So far, Trek hasn't produced any evidence that is God magicked life into existence from nothing.

A good topic for a different thread might be one that asks whether anybody can show that option 1 is impossible (absent the intervention of a magical god). Trek seems to think it's impossible, but I'm guessing it's only because he really wants God's magick to be the explanation. Regardless, it would be instructive to see whether he (or any other god believer) has any reason other than the assumed existence of a magical being to think that option 1 is impossible.

A reminder, in case it is needed: the topic of the current thread is not "Is abiogensis possible (with or without a magical god)?" The current thread is for believers to present their evidence for God.
 
Trek said:
Some do.
It’s called abiogenesis.
Life emerging from non life.
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Since abiogenesis did not produce cells, your answer is not related to the previous statement. I have told you this at least four times now. Why do you persist in your ignorance? Is ignorance required to maintain your belief in God?
 
billvon said:
Since abiogenesis did not produce cells, your answer is not related to the previous statement. I have told you this at least four times now. Why do you persist in your ignorance? Is ignorance required to maintain your belief in God?
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I didn’t mention cell in the post you responded to. Did I?

What is your definition of God?
 
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James R said:
So far, Trek hasn't produced any evidence that is God magicked life into existence from nothing.
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I don’t know of any magicking of life out nothing.
But I’m aware of life magicing out of non life. Consciousness, thoughts and everything. I wish I had as much faith as you guys.

While I have your attention James R.
Can you give me your honest definition of God?
 
James R said:
A reminder, in case it is needed: the topic of the current thread is not "Is abiogensis possible (with or without a magical god)?" The current thread is for believers to present their evidence for God.
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Actually it’s not.
The actual thread is for believers to show PROOF that God, or gods, aren’t just fiction.
Yes… I kid you not!
Anyway the answer as you can imagine is simple nobody can prove anything.
 
Trek said:
I don’t know of any magicking of life out nothing.
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Where did life come from, then?
Trek said:
But I’m aware of life magicing out of non life.
Consciousness, thoughts and everything. I wish I had as much faith as you guys.
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There's no compelling argument that I'm aware of that magic is required for life to come from non-life.

Do you have one? If so, please present it in a different thread.
Trek said:
While I have your attention James R.
Can you give me your honest definition of God?
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I'm quite happy to go with your definition, for now.

There's another thread where you can try to tell me what you think I think.
 
Trek said:
Actually it’s not.
The actual thread is for believers to show PROOF that God, or gods, aren’t just fiction.
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As per the opening post, yes.

I'm willing to cut you some reasonable slack, though. I ask only for evidence that your God isn't fiction.

So far, you haven't really come up with any. (See my previous response to your suggestions for possible evidence, to which you have not responded so far.)
 
James R said:
As per the opening post, yes.

I'm willing to cut you some reasonable slack, though. I ask only for evidence that your God isn't fiction.

So far, you haven't really come up with any. (See my previous response to your suggestions for possible evidence, to which you have not responded so far.)
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I beg to differ James.
I have put forward my evidence for God.
As for whether or not you accept God is fiction or not, that is a silly request which is just as nonsensical as asking someone to prove something.

So why do you think, given that your definition of God is the same as mine, that external evidence of God is needed to know God is real?
 
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Trek said:
Do they know this for a fact?
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No.
It really depends on how you view the scientific method does it not?
The highly qualified professionals who do this for a living?

They think the universe is infinite (a lot of physicists) these same physicists thought the Universe was between 8 and 16 billion years old, pretty solid consensus now it that it is 13.8 billion.

Does the scientific method work or not?

Paul Dirac predicted the positron, he didn't believe it himself it was so strange but his equation predicted it, three years later they found it.
Pauli predicted a particle that could not be detected, he did not like the idea at all.
They found the neutrino however.
Peter Higgs predicted the boson that gives some key massive particles mass, 48 years later they found it at the Large Hadron Collider.
Einstein (among other things) predicted an expanding Universe, he did not like the idea so he put a fiddle factor into his theory so keep it static. A Belgian priest wrote to him showing how solutions to his equations gave an expanding universe, then Hubble provided empirical evidence. The scientific method did not care about these great minds, egos or intuition, the scientific method looks for truth and history tells us that eventually it finds it.

Now you would like a finite universe because that way god who IS infinite created it and here we are.

Two things, consensus seems to be it is infinite, that fits with the current working models.
Second IF all these scientists are wrong and it is finite are you any closer to strengthening your argument for a god?
Stars are old, billions of years and finite BUT we know how they work and how they came to be, there is no reason why a finite universe cannot be worked out also.
Physicists are good to about 10 >-32 ish I think? All natural. Plank time/epoch (I'll Google 10>-42) is where you want to stick a god waving a wand?
 
Pinball1970 said:
Now you would like a finite universe because that way god who IS infinite created it and here we are.
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The best theory about the origins of the universe is hands down the Big Bang. As far as we know, based on the most compelling evidence to date, is the BBT. This is a problem for atheists because it means the universe had a beginning.
If you have a BETTER theory, or explanation let’s have it.
If not let’s move on once and for all.
 
Trek said:
The best theory about the origins of the universe is hands down the Big Bang. As far as we know, based on the most compelling evidence to date, is the BBT. This is a problem for atheists because it means the universe had a beginning.
If you have a BETTER theory, or explanation let’s have it.
If not let’s move on once and for all.
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The Universe having a beginning is not a problem for me or other atheists. It is a problem for cosmologists, an active area of research.
Please note BBT does not contradict an infinite universe. BBT is silent on T=0 or before.
Everything after T = 1x10 > -32 or so and is in line BBT AND infinite or finite Universe.
 
Trek said:
Let’s deal with the evidence for
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Ok we can do that, it was your link though. Going forward if you give a lengthy link as your only argument for the existence of god besides 'the universe' can you at least:

Read it first?
Edit it?

It's lazy otherwise and a bit disrespectful expecting readers to do the work for you.
 
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