COVID-19 Source: Will we ever know?

[RainbowSingularity]

actually

while its fun to be able to joke about serious things to take the pressure off
the terrible issues around risperdal is quite tragic

https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/prescription-drugs/risperdal-lawsuit/

obliviously, the parents would probably be happier with a living teenager with breast issues than a dead teenager whom has committed suicide or is crippled for life by a suicide attempt gone wrong.

Risperdal Gynecomastia in Boys and Adolescents
The term gynecomastia comes from two Greek words, gynaik (female) and mastos (breast).

Antipsychotics reportedly cause gynecomastia by increasing levels of a hormone, prolactin, which stimulates breast growth and milk production in women. Risperdal itself is known to be one of the worst of the newer antipsychotic drugs (known as atypical or second generation antipsychotics) in increasing prolactin.

Risperdal is also one of the worst atypical antipsychotics in producing gynecomastia. If the condition is not addressed early, it can lead to the growth of permanent breast tissue that remains even after the drug is discontinued. In many cases, liposuction, breast reduction surgery, and surgical removal of the breast may be required.

Understandably, gynecomastia in boys is traumatic, both physically and psychologically. A 2012 study by doctors in the Division of Plastic Surgery, Children’s Hospital of Pittsburgh, University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, concluded that gynecomastia is a threat to “normal self-esteem and sexual identity” in adolescents. Measures of anxiety, depression and social phobia were significantly higher in adolescents with gynecomastia. A 2013 study by doctors at Boston’s Children’s Hospital and Harvard Medical School found that adolescent boys with gyncomastia have significantly lower general health, self-esteem, social functioning and mental health compared to boys without the condition, regardless of their weight. These adolescents have reported “embarrassment, humiliation, teasing, and rejection.”

american perversion to blame the drug maker for the child being teased at school where they have no discipline or culture
i believe there are some questions around the effectiveness of the HPV vaccine
but i bet most teenage girls would prefer to have a vaccination that doesn't do much than ovarian cancer

idle privilege often overlooks the reality of the truth

teenagers in the usa with no health care
... on anti psyche medications
now having breast cancer issues and breast growth that starts to negatively impact their mental health to push them more toward suicide and self harm

exploiting victims with no health care to try and use them to make profit from
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/08/jj-...r-male-breast-growth-linked-to-risperdal.html

how much are the law firms getting ?
how much money gets paid to the patients to pay for health care ?

so ... when you look at the reality of how the USA operates with public health
if you were russia, would you sell covid vaccine to the usa ?
knowing it would only be given to the rich while used as a tool to exploit tax payer working class health care money away from those very people ?

probably not
so there is the reality
usa will want to mock and discredit russias vaccine because they are too immoral to give one to their own tax payers and children

would you like source with that ?

it is far more psychologically guilt free to make up some bullshit story conspiracy where the citizens have no power & nothing you do can make a difference
self serving splain guilt sales(... & sign up to my [truth news word of truth family values insider new day word truth]site its only 99.99{just added daily stock prices and market tips})

 

[RainbowSingularity]

USA what you pay for with your tax money for public health

USA what you get for your tax dollars when your sick and needing all the source to stay alive

"would you like sauce with that?"
... ummm well i need the source to stay alive!..."
"soo thats a YES ? , that is a co-pay and will you be paying cash or charge before the procedure?"
..."or do you live in a house we can take from you for payment?"

 

[RainbowSingularity]

75% of full time working Americans cant afford their own health care system

 

[Ethernos D Grace]

The issue of where this virus started and how it made it's way into the human population appears to be gaining importance to the many governments around the world wishing to understand why their losses both in human and economic have occurred and more importantly how to prevent this sort of pandemic from happening again.

The general population also wish to know and no doubt over the coming months and years many investigations will ensue.
Lead contender at the moment is:

• A wet market in Wuhan China. ( November, December - 2019)

There is reason, I believe, that this may not be the case so I ask:

Will we every really know where this terrible pandemic had it's source?

View attachment 3357

Care to discuss?

With the same ruling party in china it is unlikely that we will every know. The china has tendency to destroy evidence that does not suit their view. There are many evidence to suggest that. The galwan valley incident between china and india where both sides suffered fatalities. China haven't released its death count. Anything that suggest threat to china is erased. Recently WHO visited china to get data on wuhan and how it all started but the WHO could not get the mission accomplished.

 

[Q-reeus]

With the same ruling party in china it is unlikely that we will every know. The china has tendency to destroy evidence that does not suit their view. There are many evidence to suggest that. The galwan valley incident between china and india where both sides suffered fatalities. China haven't released its death count. Anything that suggest threat to china is erased. Recently WHO visited china to get data on wuhan and how it all started but the WHO could not get the mission accomplished.

Indeed. And...reinforcing what I wrote in #202, this imo essentially seals the case for Wuhan lab modified (with inputs from US, Canadian researchers), Wuhan lab released SARS-Cov-2 virus:
https://zenodo.org/record/4028830#.X19xByXZglR
alternate links:
https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/r...itter-publishes-evidence-covid-19-created-lab
https://wearechange.org/rogue-chine...smoking-gun-evidence-covid-19-created-in-lab/ (link therein to Dr Li-Meng Yan's credentials and track record)

Repeatedly shouting 'batshit crazy bitch' etc. won't wash with me at least. Dr Li-Meng Yan was very well placed to make her judgements and had nothing to gain by concocting a lie. But I know what to expect as general reaction here. Sigh.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Indeed. And...reinforcing what I wrote in #202, this imo essentially seals the case for Wuhan lab modified (with inputs from US, Canadian researchers), Wuhan lab released SARS-Cov-2 virus:
https://zenodo.org/record/4028830#.X19xByXZglR
alternate links:
https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/r...itter-publishes-evidence-covid-19-created-lab
https://wearechange.org/rogue-chine...smoking-gun-evidence-covid-19-created-in-lab/ (link therein to Dr Li-Meng Yan's credentials and track record)

Repeatedly shouting 'batshit crazy bitch' etc. won't wash with me at least. Dr Li-Meng Yan was very well placed to make her judgements and had nothing to gain by concocting a lie. But I know what to expect as general reaction here. Sigh.

What is puzzling is that there are over 100 different and independent organizations ( thousands of highly qualified scientists) attempting research and development of a Covid vaccine around the world.
You would think corroborating Dr Li-Meng Yan's claim would be relatively easy.
There is strong motivation to point the finger of blame towards China sure...(seeking compensation etc)
Why do you think that this corroborating science has not happened?

 

[Q-reeus]

What is puzzling is that there are over 100 different and independent organizations ( thousands of highly qualified scientists) attempting research and development of a Covid vaccine around the world.
You would think corroborating Dr Li-Meng Yan's claim would be relatively easy.
There is strong motivation to point the finger of blame towards China sure...(seeking compensation etc)
Why do you think that this corroborating science has not happened?

Well if the official line is 'accident from natural causes only', researchers will be wise not to upset the apple cart and risk being ostracized. As you know there has been a push from some governments for transparency from Chinese authorities and that led to a less than cordial response. But instead of asking that kind of question, why not point out glaring errors in the jointly published article - if such fatal errors do exist? They do go into meticulous detail and imo their three reasons for ruling out natural mutation of bat corona virus seems quite sound.
Not being a virologist I nevertheless will rely on any not obviously politically motivated critiques. Maybe not so easy to sort out.

You can provide a convincing reason why Dr Li-Meng Yan et. al. would make up an elaborate falsehood - given their previous standing and careers? This is SF so you KNOW any hint of conspiracy will be frowned on and ridiculed.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Well if the official line is 'accident from natural causes only', researchers will be wise not to upset the apple cart and risk being ostracized. As you know there has been a push from some governments for transparency from Chinese authorities and that led to a less than cordial response. But instead of asking that kind of question, why not point out glaring errors in the jointly published article - if such fatal errors do exist? They do go into meticulous detail and imo their three reasons for ruling out natural mutation of bat corona virus seems quite sound.
Not being a virologist I nevertheless will rely on any not obviously politically motivated critiques. Maybe not so easy to sort out.

You can provide a convincing reason why Dr Li-Meng Yan et. al. would make up an elaborate falsehood - given their previous standing and careers? This is SF so you KNOW any hint of conspiracy will be frowned on and ridiculed.

yes it is all very puzzling... indeed...I would have thought more than a few of the scientists involved in vaccine research and development would have every reason to expose the Wuhan lab culprit...but they appear to not have so far..

President Trump and his cronies would absolutely be delighted with any corroboration that would point the finger at China. But alas, there appears to be none...

 

[Q-reeus]

yes it is all very puzzling... indeed...I would have thought more than a few of the scientists involved in vaccine research and development would have every reason to expose the Wuhan lab culprit...but they appear to not have so far..

President Trump and his cronies would absolutely be delighted with any corroboration that would point the finger at China. But alas, there appears to be none...

What??!! You just disappeared from the record everything provided in #225, not to mention #202. Have a nice day.

 

[Quantum Quack]

You can provide a convincing reason why Dr Li-Meng Yan et. al. would make up an elaborate falsehood - given their previous standing and careers?

Whether true or false she is puting her and her families life on the line given the sheer scale of what she is accusing China of doing.

 

[Quantum Quack]

The Wuhan puzzle:
What is also puzzling about Wuhan China event to me, is that by the time they locked down 400 million people, the virus would have spread virtually through out the Chinese mainland. This would be primarily due to the amount of traveling that was happening at the time as part of the New Year festivities. The mass migration of people during this time of year would guarantee viral spread.

Based on transmission evidence provided by Spain and Italy shortly after the first declared out break in Wuhan, the mainland China should have been comprehensively infected.
It is true that the Chinese have made tremendous efforts to conceal and cover up their COVID situation but with a population of over 1.4 billion that sort of cover up would be virtually impossible if the situation was as dire as it currently is in , say, India or Russia.
So it is puzzling that it appears that China has avoided the similar transmission issues that the global community generally have had to endure.
Perhaps this is due to their way of nation wide containment being so much more aggressive that other nations but still it would be impossible to contain so effectively if the virus transmission rates were as demonstrated in other places.

So my question to the Chinese authorities are:
How did the Chinese government manage to prevent comprehensive mainland infection?
Why did the Chinese Government consider international border closures to Chinese travelers as being an over reaction?
Why didn't the Chinese Government by it's own choice, close it's own borders preventing Chinese international travel, thus pacing China in a state of necessary quarantine?

and a heap more....

 

[origin]

Repeatedly shouting 'batshit crazy bitch' etc. won't wash with me at least. Dr Li-Meng Yan was very well placed to make her judgements and had nothing to gain by concocting a lie.

Bat shit crazy. The scientific community has viewed the genome, they say it is a naturally evolved virus, so she must be that shit crazy, or maybe just wrong.

 

[exchemist]

Bat shit crazy. The scientific community has viewed the genome, they say it is a naturally evolved virus, so she must be that shit crazy, or maybe just wrong.

Either bat-shit crazy or deluded by the far right. I quote from Wiki on Yan Li-Meng

QUOTE
In September 2020, Yan co-authored a pre-print research paper named "Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route."[15] Three other researchers were listed as co-authors, but the SCMP was unable to find any prior work from them.[16] The paper was uploaded to the Zenodo website, an open-access repository where anyone can post their research.[17] The paper is affiliated with the Rule of Law Society, founded by Steve Bannon and Guo Wengui.[1][15][17] The Rule of Law Society had not previously published scientific or medical research.[17] Yan had previously appeared on Bannon's "War Room" podcast.[16][17]

According to the paper's abstract, "SARS-CoV-2 shows biological characteristics that are inconsistent with a naturally occurring, zoonotic virus" and that it could have been created in a lab in approximately six months.[18][19] According to Newsweek, several experts in evolutionary biology and infectious disease, including Jonathan Eisen and Carl Bergstrom, said the paper did not include new information, contained multiple unsubstantiated claims and had a weak scientific case.[15] Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at Columbia University, said the paper was "basically all circumstantial and some of it is entirely fictional".[17] For example the paper asserts that SARS-CoV-2 has a "unique" furin cleavage site in its protein structure "completely absent in this particular class of coronaviruses found in nature"; however Rasmussen says that many coronaviruses, including the 2012 MERS coronavirus, have these sites and that hence "This proves exactly nothing."[1][18]

Yan's paper also stated that two strains of bat coronaviruses discovered in China, ZC45 and ZXC21, were "suspiciously" similar to SARS-CoV-2 and these strains could have been used as a template for a deadlier virus.[3] The two strains differed by approximately 3,500 nucleotide base pairs.[3] Several virologists, including Rasmussen, said it would be either inefficient or impossible to engineer a virus where 10% of its genome would have to be replaced.[3]

In addition to citing many other unpublished pre-print papers, Yan's September 2020 pre-print cited online blogs and obscure web sites named "GM Watch" and "Nerd Has Power".[20]Immunologist Kristian G. Andersen, a specialist in communicable diseases and genomics who was one author of a March 2020 journal article in Nature Medicine entitled "The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2" which definitively stated the virus was not created in a lab,[21] and Yujia Alina Chan, a postdoctoral researcher, both said the paper left out recent data related to coronavirus in pangolins and bats.[20] Andersen further characterized the paper's prose with the statement: "It's using technical language that is impossible to decode for non-experts - poppycock dressed up as 'science'."[20]

After describing her newly published research paper in a Fox News interview with Tucker Carlson in mid-September 2020, Yan said she believed the Chinese government intentionally released the virus.[22] Instagram and Facebook flagged posts of the interview on Tucker Carlson Tonight as false information about COVID-19, saying that they repeated information “that multiple independent fact checkers say is false.”[23] PolitiFact said her statement on Carlson's show, that SARS-CoV-2 was created in a lab, was "inaccurate and ridiculous" and gave their strongest rating of "Pants on Fire".[24]

On 15 September 2020, Yan's Twitter account was suspended, although the reason for the suspension was unclear. She had only four visible posts and one linked to the preprint paper that had not been peer reviewed.[25]

UNQUOTE

This person has little credibility.

 

[billvon]

You can provide a convincing reason why Dr Li-Meng Yan et. al. would make up an elaborate falsehood - given their previous standing and careers?

Sure.

1) She hates the Chinese government and wants to harm them.
2) She is being paid by Steve Bannon; she appeared on one of his talk shows. Her paper is affiliated with the Rule of Law Society, a society that has never published a scientific paper before. It was founded by Steve Bannon and Guo Wengui. (Wengui is the guy who owned the yacht that Bannon was arrested on, and is someone who also wants to harm the Chinese government.)
3) She previously published a paper entitled "Pathogenesis and transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in golden hamsters." In it she said that the virus was very similar to existing horseshoe bat viruses, and that it had a "high nucleotide identity" to that SARS-related coronavirus.
4) She listed three other researchers on her paper - but no one, either in China or the US, has been able to find any of them, nor have they found any other papers published by them.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Sure.

1) She hates the Chinese government and wants to harm them.
2) She is being paid by Steve Bannon; she appeared on one of his talk shows. Her paper is affiliated with the Rule of Law Society, a society that has never published a scientific paper before. It was founded by Steve Bannon and Guo Wengui. (Wengui is the guy who owned the yacht that Bannon was arrested on, and is someone who also wants to harm the Chinese government.)
3) She previously published a paper entitled "Pathogenesis and transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in golden hamsters." In it she said that the virus was very similar to existing horseshoe bat viruses, and that it had a "high nucleotide identity" to that SARS-related coronavirus.
4) She listed three other researchers on her paper - but no one, either in China or the US, has been able to find any of them, nor have they found any other papers published by them.

..additionally she wasn't aware that the virus has been found in sewage samples and lung tissue samples in Europe predating the "declared" Wuhan outbreak by a few months when making her claims. Seemingly relatively low key, but present all the same.
So the COVID puzzle just gets more puzzling...
Also it is worth emphasizing your point, that it takes more than one or two scientific papers to grant credibility especially when making such massive claims.
One of the problems is that the Chinese Government is constantly setting it self up for conspiracy theories due to it's all pervasive community surveillance, secrecy and manipulations..the lack of transparency being breeding ground for paranoid speculations.

 

[Ethernos D Grace]

Indeed. And...reinforcing what I wrote in #202, this imo essentially seals the case for Wuhan lab modified (with inputs from US, Canadian researchers), Wuhan lab released SARS-Cov-2 virus:
https://zenodo.org/record/4028830#.X19xByXZglR
alternate links:
https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/r...itter-publishes-evidence-covid-19-created-lab
https://wearechange.org/rogue-chine...smoking-gun-evidence-covid-19-created-in-lab/ (link therein to Dr Li-Meng Yan's credentials and track record)

Repeatedly shouting 'batshit crazy bitch' etc. won't wash with me at least. Dr Li-Meng Yan was very well placed to make her judgements and had nothing to gain by concocting a lie. But I know what to expect as general reaction here. Sigh.

Virus is of natural origin but the source is definitly wuhan lab.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Virus is of natural origin but the source is definitly wuhan lab.

Definitely? How so?

 

[Ethernos D Grace]

Definitely? How so?

Sorry definitely is a too much of a strong word. All the evidence seem to suggest that virus outbreak occur in wuhan lab when a scientist reported of a virus outbreak in wuhan warning the locals. He was arrest and later came pandemic. Then there is virology lab in wuhan near which residents first seem to contract covid.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Sorry definitely is a too much of a strong word. All the evidence seem to suggest that virus outbreak occur in wuhan lab when a scientist reported of a virus outbreak in wuhan warning the locals. He was arrest and later came pandemic. Then there is virology lab in wuhan near which residents first seem to contract covid.

You never know you could be right...
However, because the virus has been detected in lung tissue ( deceased pneumonia patients) dating way back in (October, 1919, I think) in Spain and Italy, and even the USA, one could just as easily claim that it originated in Europe or the USA. There are many cases of un-diagnosed viral pneumonia fatalities every year (unknown virus). In many cases lung tissue samples are taken for future research. Apparently they have done some tests on historic tissue and found the COVID virus present well before it was first formally identified in China.
Google for it if interested.
The big issue is, as you know, that China is far from transparent about just about anything. Deception, lying and manipulated media reports regardless of pro or con China, must be read with a grain of salt.
In other words, China is a sitting duck when it comes to conspiracy theories and are a victim of their own making. IMO.
Circumstantial evidence, co-incidence, etc all feed the mill...and as you also know, it is far from allowing a definitive and factual objective outcome.

 

[paddoboy]

Covid 19 has wreaked havoc around the world in what is regarded as advanced first world countries.
Yet in Australia, New Zealand and Fiji things are looking more promising.
Now NZ with zero cases, are allowed access to NSW, with single digit numbers, and with two detectable cases in Fiji with a 100% recovery, and even now Victoria, also with single digit numbers, after its severe second outbreak.
In the Victorian case, the severe lockdown/s has proved successful and things are now being eased back, albeit slowly.

Looking forward particularly with open travel to Fiji and seeing friends and relatives again, when it is included in the bubble.

One must ask at this time, will world air travel ever be the same again? and how about Oceanic cruises!