11000 scientists warn re climate change

Xelasnave.1947 said:
We need the list, which we will get tidied up, but who to accuse of lieing should be easy..those who claimed to have a list when what they had was not what they claim...
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Are they claiming not to have this list? Nope!
Did they make a promise to display that list for public perusal? Probably?
Did they promise to never remove that list or edit it to make corrections? Nope!

As I stated I doubt very much that a state University would lie and threaten their reputation.
Nor would the 5 scientist that have published their names at the top of the web page.
  • William J. Ripple,
  • Christopher Wolf,
    • Research, Oregon State University >46 research items 1092 citations.
  • Thomas M. Newsome,
    • University of Sydney > 117 research items 1866 citations
  • Phoebe Barnard,
    • PHD Full affiliate professor - Washington University.
  • William R. Moomaw
I would agree however that because of incompetence they have diminished the effectiveness of their message significantly. ( see post #30)

What happens if the list comes back with >20,000 scientists names on it?.... ( it is an online survey/poll after all and could grow in to the millions... for all we know)
 
Quantum Quack said:
As I stated I doubt very much that a state University would lie and threaten their reputation.
Nor would the 5 scientist that have published their names at the top of the web page.
  • William J. Ripple,
  • Christopher Wolf,
    • Research, Oregon State University >46 research items 1092 citations.
  • Thomas M. Newsome,
    • University of Sydney > 117 research items 1866 citations
  • Phoebe Barnard,
    • PHD Full affiliate professor - Washington University.
  • William R. Moomaw
I would agree however that because of incompetence they have diminished the effectiveness of their message significantly. ( see post #30)

What happens if the list comes back with >20,000 scientists names on it?.... ( it is an online survey/poll after all and could grow in to the millions... for all we know)
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Bingo, the older letter with 15,364 scientists did not have Phoebe Barnard, William R. Moomaw or Mickey.
 
Quantum Quack said:
What happens if the list comes back with >20,000 scientists names on it?.
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I would be happy as that is needed.
The best thing they could do is let the dust settle and some time in the future produce a list of climate scientists. The standard call on any scientist railing against is that they are not a climate scientist ..which personally I think is perhaps not necessary in so far as I am sure a scientist can read stuff outside his field and decide if it has been done correct...however seeing the rebuttal is ..you are not a climate scientist.... that sort of puts you in the position where you ought to practice what you preach.
Double standards don't work well.
alex
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
I would be happy as that is needed.
The best thing they could do is let the dust settle and some time in the future produce a list of climate scientists. The standard call on any scientist railing against is that they are not a climate scientist ..which personally I think is perhaps not necessary in so far as I am sure a scientist can read stuff outside his field and decide if it has been done correct...however seeing the rebuttal is ..you are not a climate scientist.... that sort of puts you in the position where you ought to practice what you preach.
Double standards don't work well.
alex
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Perhaps they were flooded with scientists wishing to sign up and simply couldn't keep up with the need to verify them?
They got a huge global advertisement after all...
 
Quantum Quack said:
Perhaps they were flooded with scientists wishing to sign up and simply couldn't keep up with the need to verify them?
They got a huge global advertisement after all...
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Why the need from you and everyone to seek excuses.
If they lied let them explain why.
If they can organise the list and the letter maybe they should not bite off more than they can chew.
I guess it bolis down to..its not ok for an opponent to do the wrong thing but if its supporting our cause anything goes...including our honesty with the public but more sadley with ourselves. The responses here...its ok cause they believe in climate change..then excuses..I really don't know why I bother...
Just look at the damage done..excuses are not appropriate.
alex
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
I would be happy as that is needed.
The best thing they could do is let the dust settle and some time in the future produce a list of climate scientists. The standard call on any scientist railing against is that they are not a climate scientist ..which personally I think is perhaps not necessary in so far as I am sure a scientist can read stuff outside his field and decide if it has been done correct...however seeing the rebuttal is ..you are not a climate scientist.... that sort aof puts you in the position where you ought to practice what you preach.
Double standards don't work well.
alex
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There is value in any educated person adding their name to this petition. It's not a paper, it's a political call to action.
 
spidergoat said:
There is value in any educated person adding their name to this petition. It's not a paper, it's a political call to action.
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Sure, I agree...but an educated person is not a scientist so you don't claim such...if you have a list of educated people the solution is rather simple you call it a petition signed by educated people.

All I am pointing out is not to lie as it destroys credibility and gives folk cause to believe that they are being scammed.

I think I know where you are coming from but don't let your support be given unconditionally to liars or folk who display incompetance just because you share the same view.

And think of it this way...if opponents of climate change presented a list claiming they had 11000 scientists and you find that is not the case do you think that you would be finding excuses for them lieing or would you be pointing out the obvious lie.

Alex
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
All I am pointing out is not to lie as it destroys credibility and gives folk cause to believe that they are being scammed.
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With friends like you, who needs conservatives? They will believe they are being scammed no matter what. Idiots will not be persuaded, they will double down and nitpick irrelevant details.
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
Sorry I thought I was pretty clear.
There were no 11000 scientists that made the warning. It was a lie. Lieing destroys credibility. I hope that is clear.
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You have not said what is wrong with the statement the thousands of scientists all backed in regards to climate change...

Do you think their statement is wrong?

Secondly, you have yet to demonstrate that 11000 scientists did not back the warning. All evidence points to their being over 11,000 scientists who did back the warning: https://bit.ly/344fBnX

If you are unable to open that link, you can find the "list" at the bottom of this paper that was also linked above: https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/advance-article/doi/10.1093/biosci/biz088/5610806

Are you saying these 11, 258 scientists from 153 countries do not exist? Or that you don't think they put their names out to support the claims made by these climate scientists? Do you have any evidence to suggest this is all false?
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
I do think it's this type of propagandah that has folk thinking climate change is BS.
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Why? It's just a bunch of scientists who have signed a letter that says they think that climate change is an emergency. That's an opinion and they are certainly entitled to it. Why would that mean that climate change is BS?

Imagine if 11,000 football players signed a letter that says that head injuries in American football present a grave health risk. Would that mean that head injuries in football are BS?
 
Bells said:
You have not said what is wrong with the statement the thousands of scientists all backed in regards to climate change..
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I don't think there is anything wrong with the statement at all.

The issue is not about what the letter said it is about the allegations that there were no 11000 scientists.

Bells said:
Do you think their statement is wrong?
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Why do you have a total inability to read what I have said..it is just so tiresome...I have not commented on the contents and certainly have not said it is wrong...please read what I say not what you think I say.

Bells said:
Secondly, you have yet to demonstrate that 11000 scientists did not back the warning. All evidence points to their being over 11,000 scientists who did back the warning: https://bit.ly/344fBnX
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For goodness sake...what do you think I mean when I say that we need to see the list???? And sadly the evidence ...the actual list...is unavailable ...hence I kept saying we need to see the list.

When we see the list it is then we can determine the strength of any allegations.

Bells said:
If you are unable to open that link, you can find the "list" at the bottom of this paper that was also linked above: https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/advance-article/doi/10.1093/biosci/biz088/5610806
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Thanks I will check them out.

Bells said:
Are you saying these 11, 258 scientists from 153 countries do not exist? Or that you don't think they put their names out to support the claims made by these climate scientists? Do you have any evidence to suggest this is all false?
Click to expand...

I thought my posts herein show clearly what I have observed and that I have concluded until the list is available there is no call that can be made.

I do think the withdrawal of the list suggests there may be something to the allegations...but I remind you that as I have repeatedly stated until those claiming they have the list produce the list we are in the dark.

Alex
 
and then, we have
Geophysical Research Letters.

"Historical records of solar activity indicate that solar radiation has been increasing since the late 19th century. ...
 
billvon said:
It's just a bunch of scientists who have signed a letter that says they think that climate change is an emergency.
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I guess I am a total failure at communicating.

The point is there is a plausible allegation that there were no 11000 scientists...forget what the letter said..I actually 100% agree with the general drift of the letter but that is not the issue ....see if reading my posts you can guess what I see as the issue.

billvon said:
Imagine if 11,000 football players signed a letter that says that head injuries in American football present a grave health risk. Would that mean that head injuries in football are BS?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately an irrelevant example.
The only issue would be if you want to parallel my approach would be did 11000 football players sign the letter or not.

Alex
 
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