Everyday sexism

This is called making the point.

Women can get away with certain things that men cannot. We still see women slapping men on television all the time. It’s depicted as sexy, justifiable and/or funny. We assume that Paddoboy is being condescending or flirtatious because he’s a man.
 
Most men are sexist
Most women are sexist

Working in a profession, nursing, predominantly female, with Doctors, predominantly male, I agree to both those statements for both those groups in their interactions with each other

It was decreasing by the time I left the hospital setting

Many more females were becoming Doctors than males becoming nurses

From the little I have observed males do seem to be in the majority in the paramedic ambulance driver arena

:)
 
How you behave is not the norm.
Of course it is. And as yet I have never seen anything [other then the comments on this forum ] to indicate any different.
One of the biggest issues with your behaviour is who you target. Younger women who are forced to comply and who risk their jobs if they tell you that you make them uncomfortable. Those women are powerless in the face of your behaviour.
No, that is absolutely false. I interact with all people, men, women, young and old...from the young bar attendants, to the 40ish year old paramedic, to the possibly 45ish to 50ish year old bank teller.
My behaviour is not an issue in these circumstances.
It is normal and conventional banter with people you know, friends, family, etc. Not with complete strangers who always happen to be younger women.
It is the normal convention with all people I have interacted with, young, old, male or female.
And certainly not in a situation where they cannot refuse or indicate that they are uncomfortable or unhappy with your treatment and they are not allowed to tell you to fuck off, because by your own admission, you'll call the manager and complain.
That appears to be the only line of argument you have...they are all disgusted with my words and actions, but are not allowed to react. You weren't there...James wasn't there. My general perception of people is pretty accurate and has in most cases to be spot on. None of the incidents I related, did any of those women even look like objecting to. If they had, and if what you say were true, I would have at least got the "silent treatment" and interacting verbally as least as possible. That, definitely wasn't the case with the bar attendants, the bank teller, nor the paramedics, the first and last examples, seeing both those parties acting likewise, particularly the paramedics, both to me and the Mrs.
You linked people responding like fuckwits and bigots to lies and you tried to pass the response as appropriate and tried to claim the story of "PC" was correct. It was all a lie.
No it wasn't. They were feelers put out to gauge reactions, then quickly swept back under the carpet.
My father was around your age.

Not once has he ever spoken to women he does not know in the manner that you do. Not once.
Not sure how you are able to say that with such confidence, and anyway, that's your Dad's business.
I forget, you are used to women being forced to comply to your wishes. You're not used to women who talk back to you.
More guess work Bells. I have many friends and aquaintances, both male and female, young and old that talk back to me, respectfully, without unfounded allegations and accusations, in normal everyday speak...Can't really think of any specific incident that you would be interested in, but yeah, it happens.
The norm used to be that men could beat and rape their wives and not face any criminal action. Do you think it was acceptable? No, it was not.
I have never said all change was wrong...most is desired and inevitable. Some of it is superfluous and unnecessary pedant as per some of the current extreme PC attempts...not all, some.
 
He disinherited all his children. He also told his daughter who had been raped by his "mate" that she had to keep quiet about her repeated rapes because if she reported it, it would affect his political ambition.

I don't appreciate anyone who condones rape and sexual assault for political ambition, just as I don't appreciate any leader or PM who encouraged and then turned a blind eye to invading a country and the implementation of human rights abuses, mass murder and a dictatorship of an entire country.

Call me strange, but I don't consider anyone who acts that way as "great" or admirable.
The thing is that all we have to go on is the media reports. You know nothing about the internal family problems and probably never will...neither will I, but I also have spoken to fairly close Labor comrades of his. Enough said.
He was a great PM...along with Gough and Keating, and yes I am biased in that regard. TIP: and you can say you first heard it here: If Albanese loses the next election, there will be moves to move Daniel Andrews from Victorian state to the Federal sphere.
We all know what you said in that thread and how you view women in general.

I know what I said in that thread also, afterall I started it to raise awareness of the couple of incidents, where women acted as arseholes, falsely accusing men of sexual assault, one losing his job and being jailed for it.
I also find the "Not all Men" meme as justified and factual. None of that in anyway belittles the facts that the larger majority of sexual assaults see women as the victim, some in extremely heart breaking circumstances, as per the "crazy" that burnt his wife and children in their car.
No one was saying otherwise. That's the point. You made a claim, a complete lie, and linked articles that detail how your claim was a fabrication that was designed to stir up anti Muslim sentiment (which you expressed and shared and repeated)
I made a claim that there were suggestions of toning down the Christian side of Christmas by certain orginisations and councils, and yes, thankfully, none of them eventuated, due to immediate reaction.
 
Last edited:
Women can get away with certain things that men cannot. We still see women slapping men on television all the time. It’s depicted as sexy, justifiable and/or funny. We assume that Paddoboy is being condescending or flirtatious because he’s a man.
These are all indefensible suppositions on your part.
 
...
I made a claim that there were suggestions of toning down the Christian side of Christmas by certain orginisations and councils, and yes, thankfully, none of them eventuated, due to immediate reaction.
and
we have
merry xmas
happy holidays
and an anti-religion nutjob sued and got the ten commandments removed from the courthouse lawn

but
then again
this ain't Australia
 
In one's immediate family, you can be as "you" as they will tolerate - because they know you.
No argument on that score.
The larger the circle, the less one knows the people in the circle, the more one reins in their own behavior.
Yes.
In one's extended family, one tempers their predilections somewhat. Great granny might not care for that racy blonde-eats-a-banana joke.
Great Grand Pappy might though.
In one's community, one reins it in a little more, because, while ones local pub is a place where most people know you, not everyone will. Pretty bad idea to tell a joke about X not knowing if there's one at the table next you with no sense of humour.
Well, yes probably true in some respect. I certainly would not tell a demeaning joke about a muscle bound hulk, if there was a muscle bound hulk at the next table within hearing range.
The internet is a world stage. You don't know anybody, and the probability that others will have sensibilities different from your own approaches one.

So one tempers oneself to accommodate as many others as reasonable. The bigger the group, the fewer you know well, the more you temper yourself.

It is more constructive for person A to accommodate person B by simply being polite for the duration of the discourse than it is for person B to sit in discomfort in the face of person A's courseness.
That may hold if addressing someone directly and personally, agreed. I told a joke yesterday in the appropriate section, that you could have taken offence to...I don't believe you did, but you could have because of your situation. Let me also say that I now have to make a list before I go shopping, where 10 years ago I did not need to. ;)
Oh yeah, and if one (or many) of the people in the group says explicitly that they're uncomfortable with some line being crossed, then you tone it down - or you gracefully withdraw to go find a group more amenable.
That's just part of the social contract.
Yes, explicitly yes!! If my style of addressing any man or woman was objected to by that man or woman, I would cease it immediatley. But that has not happened in the cases I have presented, and the interactions have proceeded both ways.
One of the young bar attendants at my reunion referred to us as a bunch of old darlings. You know Dave I am reasonable enough and sensible enough and perceptive enough, to have recognised any displeasure in any of the circumstances I have posted here.
That was not evident and in fact reciprocated in kind.
And when the banter is played out equally by both sides, it is even more normal and acceptable within that group.
 
I certainly would not tell a demeaning joke about a muscle bound hulk, if there was a muscle bound hulk at the next table within hearing range.
Is that anything like telling demeaning jokes about women in a public forum within reading range of men and women who object to demeaning jokes about women?


If my style of addressing any man or woman was objected to by that man or woman, I would cease it immediatley.
Your style of comments here has been objected to - by members, here. So what will you do?


You know Dave I am reasonable enough and sensible enough and perceptive enough, to have recognised any displeasure in any of the circumstances I have posted here.
OK, you are "perceptive enough to recognize displeasure in any circumstances you've posted here".

Is that a concession that you'll stop, now that displeasure, here, has been noted and recognized? No more defending it?
 
Is that anything like telling demeaning jokes about women in a public forum within reading range of men and women who object to demeaning jokes about women?
But this isn't so much about me telling jokes that maybe construed as sexist,[although the one I told here was not imo..it was a remark about women not being able to make up there minds :rolleyes: And just as many male deflationary adages out there, like men always leaving the toilet seat up] it's more now about casual banter in public.
Your style of comments here has been objected to - by members, here. So what will you do?
Dave, I don't address anyone here as Love, and rarely mate for that matter, because we all have handles.
OK, you are "perceptive enough to recognize displeasure in any circumstances you've posted here".
Is that a concession that you'll stop, now that displeasure, here, has been noted and recognized? No more defending it?
I don't see the original joke as displeasurable or sexist Dave, and it was never recognised that way until James appeared and commented on it.
 
Women can get away with certain things that men cannot. We still see women slapping men on television all the time. It's depicted as sexy, justifiable and/or funny. We assume that Paddoboy is being condescending or flirtatious because he's a man.

There is always some mystery about what to say when an argument appears to be predicated on alternative history not evident in the record. Consider this: Why is this form of violence "depicted as sexy, justifiable and/or funny"?

There is a marketplace story I sometimes recall°, about a movie scene two pudgy cops in towels talking about sex toys and inadequate wives. One reason for mentioning it is simply that the subject came up, but what makes it stand out is the history. Over twenty-five years later, a masculinist celebrity scholar dug himself a hole with the idea of enforced monogamy, and what he walked himself back to in a subsequent post blogged on his home domain, was not a rule of law thing, but customary shaming of women against anything else. It is one thing to see men complaining about men getting their way, and waxing nostalgic would be one thing, but as a larger phenomenon, it's not just psychologically distressed masculinists requiring an inchoate ahistorical alternative by which women have always been in charge. And, honestly, I've yet to find the peer-reviewed historical paper on subsumption as a feminist conspiracy to enslave men, so, if anyone happens to know where it is, that would be a great example for trying to understand how this weird, alternative cuckstory works. But in my lifetime, the range of conservative family values in American Christianist society included to marrying well as a good woman's duty; indeed, that's part of what brings men to happy hour lamentations, or locker room talk, about everything wrong with their wives. My lifetime also includes men bitterly complaining about golddiggers, and the thing about that was the sight of pathetic men complaining about men getting their way. The celeb scholar appealing to enforced monogamy is not unaware of such history, having also lived through it.

Historical niche consideration: It is actually observable that political cooperation between conservative Christians and so-called fiscal conservatives created particular capitalistic outcomes frustrating conservative Christian values; about a year ago↱, I observed:

• Think back. There's an old song called "Lorelei", by Styx, and it's about unmarried cohabitation. Living with an unmarried heterosexual partner was controversial in the day, but that one-bedroom apartment requiring thirty-eight and a quarter per hour, these days, is much more likely to be shared by two people. There's a joke about Republicans, in there, if you think about it.​

That seemingly trivial scrap is not irrelevant. It's one thing if James Brown tells us, "It's a man's man's man's world, but it wouldn't be nothin' without a woman or a girl", does it mean the same thing as when Etta or Johnette remind? Because, as Maurice Chevalier once explained, thank heaven for little girls, because without them, what would little boys do. And I could go on with music; and if I recall there actually is a recording of "Lorelei" that includes the obvious masturbation joke, it can seem nearly an abysmal descent over the course of a decade. Pop music generally tumbled into and through a countercultural pretense of repressed romance of doing it, and doing everything, down in a dark place no one knows, which sounds like begging for anal, but such is the market of hearthrob-vampires in love, when beauty had her way, with her hooks in your face.

Some of my favorite music from the Eighties just slays me, today. Don't get me started, for instance, on Tommy Shaw's solo albums from the period, because the literary analysis is a neurotic disaster including an answering-machine message song about drunkenly harassing a woman, the tale of the young girl who dutifully hides in her little girl world; and this really weirdly predatory bit in which he tries to treat some totem of a mean, snotty, self-aware heartbreaker of a privileged woman as some manner of pretended equal, and it comes off as just menacing. And this was before the rise of the enlightened caveman; in his way, this was actually grasping after enlightenment and equality, yet remaining utterly trapped in masculine myth.

And if it's hard to justify the period when we objectified woman, raising them as idols, as we sought their equal station within within our own myth and interest, the point is not to plead our failure to have learned how to think that part through, but, instead, remind that the historical narrative by which the hedonism of the Eighties were sexually liberating for women remains controversial in the outlooks of some influential dependents of tradition. That is to say, the narrative we see looking at the most apparent pop culture iterations and influences of the time range, for women, into the unhealthy and even downright dangerous°°. The actual historical narrative describing woman's sexually liberating benefit is, even today, often disdained as some manner of radicalism.

The comparative radicalism of that feminist historical narrative tells us something about the standards of comparison. The bad joke about men becoming feminists because they think it means they'll get laid more by liberated women isn't thin air. When the Christianist censors panicked about Madonna, society did not respond by attending a feminist critique, but, rather, raising masculine expectation of gettin' some. That is, actual historical narrative, which coincides with a a generally feminist-intersectional narrative, describing female benefit of sexual liberation within a hedonistic pop culture trend in the 1980s and into the '90s, is only radical compared to certain masculine needs within the traditionalist framework.

These days, we see similar traditionalist needs in frontline transphobic arguments, and while, sure, there is much to say about that, the underlying point is that traditional structures and standards of marketplace measurement have long treated women poorly and sought their disempowerment. Your proposition—

"Women can get away with certain things that men cannot. We still see women slapping men on television all the time. It's depicted as sexy, justifiable and/or funny."

—occurs within that framework. That is to say, as a general question, the depiction of sexy, funny, or as you include, justifiable, still occurs within that masculine-sympathetic framework. Whether and how a given act of violence is justifiable is a narrative question, and that remains true even within smaller spheres of influence where the intersectional narrative might from time to time prevail.

As a question of female privilege, getting away with things men cannot, the basic measurement and comparison is pretty apparent: Compared to men, according to a man's need in a man's world according to a man's expectations per a man's definitions.

The mystery about these alternative historical experiences is that we don't really know what they are. We only get small glimpses according to narrative priorities of masculine complaint.

Nor is all that separate from the question of whether "we assume that Paddoboy is being condescending or flirtatious because he’s a man". We can, of course, suggest there is more to it than assuming, but toward your expression of the circumstance part of the affirmative is that of course we do because that is the station assigned by the customary scheme within which he stakes his own conduct and standard of assessment.

It's as if your four-sentence post does not recognize history, yet everything about it comes around to masculine influence and interest.

Again, are making the point, and multivalently, this time.
____________________

Notes:

° 1↗, 2↗, 3↗, 4↗; the summary juxtaposition for 5↗:

It's why I do the Candy-Belushi bit, which is about the lightest touch I can give it. Two doughy cops wrapped in towels, glistening in a warm, moist locker room, discussing sex toys because the married one is distressed by his wife's lack of sexual passion and performance.

The more common version is a couple tired men at "happy hour", commiserating over how their wives are cold-fish nags raising the kids wrong.

°° It's not like the market ever really stopped. I remember a Canadian band that had a hit song about being an adult, and it was very easy to sympathize with the masculine angst, but these years later, those albums can be agonizing experiences.
 
It's as if your four-sentence post does not recognize history, yet everything about it comes around to masculine influence and interest.

Those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it.

Blessed is the lioness which becomes a woman when consumed by a woman. And cursed is the woman whom the lioness consumes, and the lioness becomes a woman.
 
Last edited:
I don't see the original joke as displeasurable or sexist Dave,
How you see it is not the issue. As you said:

"I am reasonable enough and sensible enough and perceptive enough, to have recognised any displeasure."

I am certain you would agree you have recognized displeasure. There's currently 172 posts of evidence.

and it was never recognised that way until James appeared and commented on it.
It was. By me (Not to mention others).

The fact that James R called it out does not mean that others of us didn't feel the same way when reading the post. You can't lay this at James' door.
 
That's just your opinion.
It's not. You've made claims where you deign to speak to how others feel.

"Women can get away with certain things that men cannot."
Unfounded assertion. You speak only your own perception.

"...women slapping men on television all the time [is] depicted as sexy, justifiable and/or funny."
Unfounded assertion. You speak only your own perception.

We assume that Paddoboy is being condescending or flirtatious because he’s a man."
Unfounded assertion. You speak only your own perception.
 
Women can get away with certain things that men cannot.
And men can get away with certain things that women cannot, yes. Sexism in action. Worthwhile to reduce that IMO.
We still see women slapping men on television all the time.
We used to see men slapping women all the time on TV, too. Men "keeping their women in line." In From Russia with Love, Sean Connery slaps a woman in the face, after which she says "but I love you, James!" - thus proving that not only was it not unacceptable, it was entirely forgivable.

And it wasn't just fiction either. In a later interview Sean Connery said "well, sometimes women just need a slap."

Time moves on, and things become less acceptable.
We assume that Paddoboy is being condescending or flirtatious because he’s a man.
Which does not make it OK.
 
Which is totally correct but I am sure would fly over the heads of some ie those who pretend there are more than 70+ genders or you can be age fluid
You sound like the people who thought that men marrying men would lead to men marrying dogs, or who laugh at the idea that gay marriage is "real" :smile:
 
And men can get away with certain things that women cannot, yes. Sexism in action. Worthwhile to reduce that IMO.

We used to see men slapping women all the time on TV, too. Men "keeping their women in line." In From Russia with Love, Sean Connery slaps a woman in the face, after which she says "but I love you, James!" - thus proving that not only was it not unacceptable, it was entirely forgivable.

And it wasn't just fiction either. In a later interview Sean Connery said "well, sometimes women just need a slap."

Time moves on, and things become less acceptable.

Which does not make it OK.

Yep, what's good for the gander is good for the goose. Rules should apply equally but they aren't. Women call people luv, sweetie, hon, etc. and it's accepted.
 
That's just your opinion.

“Luv” is a common term in Britain. A waitress might say, “What are you having, luv?”
Luv or Love is also just as common in Australia, by people in all walks of life...It is said with any second thought or any imagined attempt at flirting or leering.
 
Back
Top