Ultimate male feminist?

[BrianHarwarespecialist]

Like you implied Birch, attraction isn't some basic thing like "just revolves around sex"... Look at this thread this conversation, I am attracted to Birch, obviously not physically I have never seen Birch but I can completely relate to everything she is saying and that's rare.

Just like Birch implied about friendship that's platonic I could be attracted to Birch platonically, I could really like her lots as a friend but have no sexually interest in her because she may not be my sexual type. Just like she stated maybe if I was in a sick and or desperate state I may have sex with a female or any female I have no genuine sexual attraction towards, that's called desperation and its both disrespectful and unfair for you and the other participating party.

Further attraction has many avenues such as physical, emotional, spiritual(energetic), intellectual, so you must know what attraction you have for someone as well as which one they have for you. This is what will make all the difference in how they interact with you and them you.

I personally have a spiritual attraction to a certain person that I believe was the most beautiful women I have ever seen I only ever seen 2 or 3 more women in all of my long life that I would say is as beautiful as her. But you know what that was the least important reason I had any kind of interest in her the attraction felt unique it felt Devine like one of a kind. The other women that I would put on the same level of physical attraction but not above I couldn't care less about them, they were just another hollow body just a pure physical attraction. I actually never once had any sexual feelings not even once towards this person I am talking about and I may never will because the connection is so much deeper than a sexual one actually compared to this connection sex is meaningless. In this situation sex is not necessary for a very very deep and devine spiritual stimulation it feels like a connection outer worldly beyond life and death itself it will always remain no matter who I am with. And at the same time I have no need for that person or for them to be around they are free I am free I just needed to know that there was someone alive that could make me feel this way. It's only about the feeling that one unique and Devine inspiration. That's actually enough for me am satisfied and do not need to be more than a genuine friend with this person I am describing, l learned a lot about my self because I met this person and it also helped me mature.

I used to think like secular sanity when I was young, but then I grew up and realized I was immature. Yes men and women can be friends but it's situationally dependant. And I would admit attraction may complicate things but that depends on what kind of attraction.

 

[birch]

Am jealous, I now need to shut the hell up, it's seems to me that you have a gift at understanding these things that superseded my own understanding. But before I shut up completely I will just say a few things...

Believe me, it was hewn in the fires of mordor and took a dip in mount doom...nothing like life experience and the school of hard knocks...

 

[Secular Sanity]

You seem to think that just because a male may have sex with you, it means something as in maybe they can't be friends because they might.

So, you don’t think that the willingness of men to engage in noncommittal sex is a challenge for cross sex friends?

Does anyone think that the willingness of men to engage in noncommittal sex presents another challenge? JD O'Meara found four basic challenges that cross-sex friends must negotiate.

These challenges are (1) determining the type of emotional bond experienced in the relationship, (2) confronting the issue of sexuality, (3) dealing with the issue of relationship equality within a cultural context of gender inequality, and (4) the challenge of public relationships—presenting the relationship as authentic to relevant audiences.

From my own personal experience, I'd say that men make better friends than women do. I've found my male friends to be far more generous with their attention, time and money. Whenever I've been in a bind and needed some assistance (eg. ride to work, move house, fix my PC), it's always been my male friends who help. In most cases I didn't even have to ask, they just offered. Now perhaps they had some ulterior motive, I'm not a mind reader, but I've noticed that men also go out of their way to help their male friends. So obviously sex can't be the only motivating factor.

I also think men are generally less demanding and judgmental, and aren't as petty and gossipy as women.

My first inclination is to agree with you, but do you think this could this be a gender bias? I’ve helped people move more often than my male counterparts. I’ll have to admit, though, I don’t like women to use me, either. One found out that I knew how to do electrical work. She showed up on my porch with a lamp in her hand wanting me to rewire it. She gave me a bottle of wine, but the parts were more expensive than the wine. I’ve watched men struggle with reciprocation, too. When it comes down to it, everyone has an agenda, right? Maybe this article is onto something, though. What if it’s not just about tit for tat? During some of our previous discussions on rape, I came across theories that suggested that men may use their alliances for social and political dominance, allowing them more access to females.

In other words, we might like to make grand claims that friendships are without agenda, but that doesn’t necessarily mean this is the case.”

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130123-what-are-friends-really-for

I suggest you keep working at it.

I don’t know. Maybe Dywyddyr is right. Perhaps it is “much ado about nothing”. Maybe my cynicism is making me stupid. Perhaps, I too, am prone to cognitive biases by reporting on my friendships in which there were more challenges. As one study suggested, these relationships would be more salient.

Have researchers made “much ado about nothing” in regards to purported challenges facing cross-sex friends? We conclude that scholars have been justified in their study of these challenges, but perhaps have overestimated their prevalence. Out research indicates that the challenges enumerated by O’Meara (1989) were not relevant to many individuals in cross-sex friendships. However, for some respondents the challenges were of central importance, and a few cross-sex friends even became preoccupied with certain challenges. There is also the possibility that some respondents self-selected a non-challenged friendship to report on, which would give the impression that the challenges were less common than they actually are. However, the reverse argument could also be made, i.e., respondents are more prone to report on cross-sex friendships in which there are challenges because those friendships are more salient and easier to remember.

One thing that I did find interesting, though, was that men with an unrestricted sociosexual orientation was linked with higher levels of rape myth acceptance and adversarial sexual beliefs; more conservative attitudes toward women; higher levels of power motivation and lower levels of affiliation-intimacy motivation; and past use of sexual aggression.

Cross-sex friendship: Four basic challenges of an ignored relationship

Challenges Confronting Cross-Sex Friendships: “Much Ado About
Nothing?”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociosexual_orientation

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16817063

 

[billvon]

Good post, especially this:

If you assume every male wants to sleep with you, that's you.

I've met a lot of people whose preconceptions both color and determine all their relationships.
"Well, I know what you want, all guys want that."
"You're just after my money, because all women want rich guys."
And if you go into any relationship - friendship, romantic, purely sexual - with such assumptions, more times than not you'll find what you expect to find, whether or not it's really there.

 

[Secular Sanity]

a very very deep and devine spiritual stimulation

A spiritual stimulation? WTF is that? Is it some sort of military attack? Christ O'mighty, I think that I might have a spirit simulator in my top dresser drawer. Do you think it could be damaging my awareness?

 

[birch]

What I've noticed is there is a feeling or sense of friends as kindred spirits, male and female. It doesn't matter. I've also noticed you feel safe, familiar, comfortable, they are like family. When you've built up a rapport and understanding with someone, you aren't direly offended if a platonic friend may develop a crush or other feelings. You just know its not going to happen and maybe gently steer them in another direction. You are not grossed out, utterly disgusted, violated, or unsafe because you know them inside so well, care, appreciate and like them as a person genuinely. It may be a little awkward or even a bit amusing. This is the difference between true close friendships vs superficial ones or casual acquaintances. I've experienced both and if the thought of someone making known non-platonic feelings just makes you shudder, offended or unsafe, you most likely aren't that close friends as well as don't like them much or don't have a real solid or sincere understanding.

 

[Bells]

From my own personal experience, I'd say that men make better friends than women do. I've found my male friends to be far more generous with their attention, time and money.

Friendship should not be based on what they can give you.

Whenever I've been in a bind and needed some assistance (eg. ride to work, move house, fix my PC), it's always been my male friends who help. In most cases I didn't even have to ask, they just offered. Now perhaps they had some ulterior motive, I'm not a mind reader, but I've noticed that men also go out of their way to help their male friends. So obviously sex can't be the only motivating factor.

That depends on the friendship.

I also think men are generally less demanding and judgmental, and aren't as petty and gossipy as women.

Heh..

Men are just as petty and gossipy as women. Some men, more than others.

From my own observations, women tend to see friendships with men as a chance to use a man's wealth and abilities.

*Cough*

"I've found my male friends to be far more generous with their attention, time and money"​

Please do not project.

Indeed, I remember one of the earlier studies you posted suggesting that women tend to form friendship with men in order to obtain security.

Evolutionary findings show that women form friendships with men for protection and men form friendship with women as part of a "longer term mating acquisition strategy".

Bleske-Rechek et al. (2012) theorize that cross-sex friendships are a part of humans’ evolved mating strategies. Current mating strategies unconsciously motivate individuals to enter into cross-sex friendships because it gives them more opportunities to mate. As a result, individuals within these cross-sex friendships often develop attraction to the other individual, even when that attraction is completely unintended.[3] This evolutionary theory predicts that cross-sex friendships are formed by males for sexual access and by females for protection.[4] This demonstrates one way in which cross-sex friendships serve, in part, as a long term mating acquisition strategy. Having more opportunities to mate is an evolutionary advantage, however, being attracted to a cross-sex friend creates negative social consequences. This is especially true for younger adults who are attracted to a cross-sex friend, because these people report less satisfaction in their current romantic relationship.[3] Also, middle-aged adults tend to nominate attraction to their cross-sex friends as more of a negative than a positive.[3]

[...]

Within cross-sex friendships, men judge sexual attraction and the desire for sex as a more important reason than do women for initiating their friendship. Additionally, men are more sexually attracted to their opposite-sex friends and have more frequent desires to have sexual intercourse with their opposite-sex friends than women are.[4] Bleske-Rechek et al. (2012) found that men overestimate how much their female friends are attracted to them. Women are less likely to want to date their male friends if he is in a committed relationship, but men have the same desire to date their female friend whether or not she is dating someone.[3] Bleske-Rechek et al. (2012) hypothesize that a man’s desire to date his female friend is not changed by whether or not their female friend is in a relationship. This is due to males’ mating strategies that focus around acquiring short term mates.[3] Furthermore, Bleske-Rechek et al. (2012) suggest that men would pursue cross-sex relationships both when single and in a relationship, while women would be less likely to pursue cross-sex friends while dating someone.[3]

Attraction within these friendships can cause challenges. Sexual attraction can arise for a variety of reasons in cross-sex friendships. In a study by Halatsis and Christakis (2009), participants cited social pressures and emotional vulnerability as reasons for sexual attraction arising in a cross-sex friendship.[6] A social pressure that may prompt sexual attraction between cross-sex friends is the perceptions other friends have of their relationship and emotional vulnerability coupled with closeness may provoke sexual attraction between cross-sex friends. When sexual attraction develops in a friendship, it can corrupt the friendship and individuals state that behavior often changes. Sexual attraction in cross-sex friendships is often dealt with in one of three ways: management of this attraction through communication or an internal decision not to pursue the attraction in order to preserve the friendship, a sexual relationship forms then dissipates, or sex becomes a part of the friendship.[6] When participants in the study by Halatsis and Christakis (2009) were asked about their experience with sexual attraction in cross-sex friendships, over 50% had experienced attraction, and over 50% of that group had expressed or acted on their sexual attraction. However, men had a tendency to be more attracted to their cross-sex friends, and a higher tendency to act on that attraction. Only 16% of individuals who had acted on their sexual attraction claimed that their friendship ended as a result, otherwise the friendship remained intact or transformed into a romantic relationship.[6] So, sexual attraction in cross-sex friendships does not have to mean the end of the friendship.

[...]

Historically, women are more vulnerable due to their smaller stature and lesser strength compared with men. Thus, women have consistently needed to secure protection for themselves.[4] Seeking protection from men would have been an evolutionary advantage as women who do so increase their reproductive success, which has caused an evolved preference for men who are willing and able to offer protection.[4] Therefore, it is not surprising that Bleske-Rechek & Buss (2001) found that women judged physical protection as a more important reason for initiating an opposite-sex friendship than did men and that opposite-sex friendship is a strategy women use for gaining physical protection.[4]​

Since First World nations don't have roving packs of murderers and rapists like those seen in Mad Max: Road Fury, we are left wondering exactly what sort of security women want from men...

Security from other men.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/th...public-street-harassment-20150401-1mcrwk.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-31/hales-walking-as-a-woman-when-compliments-are-threats/5858080

 

[birch]

Like it was mentioned before, there are just all kinds of different types of people out there, regardless of gender. Are there a lot of sexist males who view women as sex objects only? Yes. But there are also males that don't and looking for their true love or whatever just as many women. Alternately, there are plenty of female sluts too who have no qualms about viewing men as objects or having side pieces themselves.

As for users, both genders are culpable. Heh, there are plenty of men who try to use women (imcluding girlfriends or wives) not only for sex but also money, favors, chores etc. Anything they can get just as their are women who do the same to men. Of course, a genuine relationship involves give and take that meet eachothers expectations for however the dynamic is defined by two but users will try to make this uneven or the motives just aren't sincere as in having your best interests at heart too.

That said, not all men or women are like this. It all depends on their particular nature and morals. But even with these core aspects in common, when it comes to personal relationships whether platonic or otherwise, there are many factors in play to determine that such as mentality, personality, personal taste/preferences, interests, culture or sub-culture etc. So you can't be friends or partners with just anyone regardless if they are saints or criminals. That's why its called personal. What you can have though is general respect and compassion for your fellow man/woman and hopefully try not to hurt or damage people along the way as we are all on our own unique personal search and quest.

You have to keep in mind too, that we all do rejecting as well. Sometimes not in the healthiest of ways or even with fair treatment. Some people are jerks or they also have issues or lack of maturity. Also, depending on the situation or person, you might have to really put your foot down or sour the milk, so to speak, if they are taking kindness or polite refusal or kindness as weakness to get rid of them. We all have a right to defend our boundaries. That said, we also may learn in hindsight from those we had differences with and its not always a case of right or wrong about certain contentions. But the bottom line is even with rejection, even if the other party wasn't fair, immoral or constructive during a relationship or how they rejected you, know you have a right to respect, health, happiness and love. No one has a right to destroy you, disrespect you as a human being or snuff out your light. Learn, respect and love yourself.

Not all relationships are meant to last forever either. How many times have we perhaps believed in the moment, the apple of our eye is the best for us when in hindsight you later meet someone you love even more or is better suited for you? This is the blessing in disguise of rejection. In the moment, you can't see it but you may still need to grieve and learn from the bad and take away what was good from it.

One should always be true to oneself even if it doesn't please another. Never compromise your values or who you really are. You can compromise on many things but not this. You will not be happy anyways. Don't lose yourself. People are very fallible, dont put your self worth in their hands. They dont deserve it. Someone who doesn't value you isn't worth it for you anyway. Also, it is true we are all born alone and many die alone. Life is just a journey of learning and discovery. If we can cherish the moments of love or friendship along the way, it just makes it less harsh or lonely is all. But if you develop enough self love, you can find things to enjoy in life.

Another thing to consider is people assume looking from the outside that people have these wonderful, fairy tale relationships when most people have problems, gripes etc. Relationships, especially romantic ones are usually difficult in the long haul except for a few lucky souls who happen to meet a close to perfect match. Its nothing to envy and could be a case of 'be careful what you wish for'. Make wiser decisions as it comes and bail when its right too.

 

[Bebelina]

Hasn't Justin Trudeau recently been appointed this title?

 

[Secular Sanity]

Hasn't Justin Trudeau recently been appointed this title?

I don’t know much about him. He did participate in a “What a Girl Wants” fundraiser. The ladies seem to love him, eh? I wonder, though, when he calls himself a feminist, who do you think benefits more, him or us?

It seems to me that birch here is saying something similar to what Evan Katz said in his blog.

“It IS possible for a man to be friends with a woman, but he has to be a very experienced, very evolved man.”

http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/dating-tips-advice/can-men-and-women-really-be-just-friends/

What about you, Bebes, do you think men and women can be close friends?

 

[Bebelina]

I don’t know much about him. He did participate in a “What a Girl Wants” fundraiser. The ladies seem to love him, eh? I wonder, though, when he calls himself a feminist, who do you think benefits more, him or us?

It seems to me that birch here is saying something similar to what Evan Katz said in his blog.

“It IS possible for a man to be friends with a woman, but he has to be a very experienced, very evolved man.”

http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/dating-tips-advice/can-men-and-women-really-be-just-friends/

What about you, Bebes, do you think men and women can be close friends?

Yes, he's a hottie allright.

I think we all benefit from Trudeau callling himself a feminist, obviously he benefits MORE ( being just one person getting all that postitive attention and money)

I have an evolved (!) view on gender belonging and don't see it tied to the physical body. So yes, I see people being friends regardless of bodytype and genderbelonging.

It's complicated issue though, since many people are still living with the oppression of stereotypical images based on cultural and social constructions.

There are people who fit in the stereotypical genderroles, those who don't, those who feel uncomfortable with their physical gender, those who feel comfortable with their physcial gender but don't fit into the stereotypical images and so on...

It's a naive question to ask, if men and women can be friends, because it's based on the assumption that those two words stands for something that only a few perecentage of the population can agree with, the cavepeople.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

I don’t know much about him. He did participate in a “What a Girl Wants” fundraiser. The ladies seem to love him, eh? I wonder, though, when he calls himself a feminist, who do you think benefits more, him or us?

It seems to me that birch here is saying something similar to what Evan Katz said in his blog.

“It IS possible for a man to be friends with a woman, but he has to be a very experienced, very evolved man.”

http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/dating-tips-advice/can-men-and-women-really-be-just-friends/

What about you, Bebes, do you think men and women can be close friends?

Sex is sex. Respect is respect.

Can you tell the difference or do you not want to?

 

[Secular Sanity]

It's a naive question to ask, if men and women can be friends, because it's based on the assumption that those two words stands for something that only a few perecentage of the population can agree with, the cavepeople.

No, not really. I’m asking about a close friend, not an acquaintance. I’m not asking you, if you can be friends with a man. I’m asking if a man can be just friends with you, or if he would even care to.

You must have male friends then, right? Friends with benefits or just friends? You don’t think that it could be tricky or a slippery slope? How do you juggle the emotional intimacy, the self-disclosure, the secrets, the physical contact, or the trust? You’re single, correct? But what if you were married? How would you manage all of these intimate extracurricular activities without sabotaging the intimacy with a romantic partner?

Sex is sex. Respect is respect.

Can you tell the difference or do you not want to?

Are you gadfly or something?

 

[Beer w/Straw]

You have made one of the most stupidest posts I have to stop and wonder if there is underlying issues.


Seek psychiatric help.

 

[Secular Sanity]

Seek psychiatric help.

Are you done yet?

"You know the cool thing about women? Women get to have platonic friends. He’s my pal, he’s my bud, he’s my platonic friend. I love him like a brother. Men don’t have platonic friends. We just have women we haven’t fucked yet".—Christ Rock

Don't be so stupid.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Stop quoting idiotic media.

 

[Secular Sanity]

Stop quoting idiotic media.

Why, you don't think that the media has any influence?

Don't be so stupid.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

You're not educated.

 

[Secular Sanity]

You're not educated.

And you don't know shit about physics, now, do you?

I'm into physics where one can use mathematics as a tool, and not be shackled to questionnaires.

Yeah, right.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

And you don't know shit about physics, now, do you?



Yeah, right.

lol

I don't boast. But I'm careful not to make absolutely, horrendously stupid comments as well. You've already posted stuff that I can use to intellectually and emotionally destroy you, yet I haven't. It would be mean. I asked, because you post things so stupid, to seek psychiatric help.


Do you want me to begin?

:EDIT:

I actually don't feel like it. I don't want to viewed as a bad person. You win.