Skeptic finds 4 year Bigfoot project "intriguing"

[Bells]

LOL! How ridiculous. What evidence that it was a monkey or a sea otter? Go ahead. Show us the evidence. Show us the footage of monkeys and sea otters in the remote mountains of Oklahoma throwing rocks and using them to crush nuts.

He doesn't need to. He was explaining animals that do use tools and throw rocks in response to your claims that only bigfoot do these things.

You are yet to provide any image of bigfoot doing it. Hell, you are yet to provide even credible photos of bigfoot. Just as you are yet to provide evidence, such as DNA samples to show that it is a new species of hominid or primate.

Even your own so called evidence that you tried to rely on stated that the lack of any scientific evidence meant it did not exist.

There's no animal that throws rocks from 50 yards away, leaves giant humanoid footprints, bangs on trees with sticks, huffs and vocalizes like an ape, pushes trees over, bangs on cabin walls at night, and cracks nuts with a huge rock other than a bigfoot. When you turn up some other animal that does let me know. But we all know you won't. Because like Bells with her circus bears, you got nothing.

Ah the trees.. Yes, apparently bigfoot is so strong, that it is pushing these huge trees over in the forest. But it bangs on a cabin wall and doesn't break it or even dent it. Ya, sounds credible.

You have no proof that bigfoot has done any of these things. All you have are accounts of dubious people who are making a lot of money preying on gullible individuals.

Nope..humans don't hang out in the woods in the remote mountains of Oklahoma for 4 years and throw rocks at bigfoot researchers and make huffing sounds and bang on trees day and night and push trees down and emit noxious scents and leave giant footprints, etc. Doesn't make sense at all. Still waiting on that evidence of monkeys and sea otters in the woods of Oklahoma. Guess you don't have that do ya?

Yes, because people are not going to do any of that to trick a bunch of people who are paying to search for bigfoot..

Really? So how many bears get hit by cars every year? Ofcourse its possible for bigfoot to exist undetected. Particularly if they live in remote wooded areas beyond roads and bury their own dead as I already posted eyewitness accounts of.

If we can detect and monitor secretive tribes that have never had contact with the outside world in the middle of the Amazon Forest, I am fairly certain that finding some hairy apes that "emit foul smells" and vocalise like apes and are strong enough to push huge trees over with their bare hands would not go unnoticed.

As for the bones, there are several eyewitness accounts of bigfoot creatures burying their corpses. So that would definitely explain why there's no bones.

And yet they don't dig up the dead bigfoot and take samples for testing?

Nor do they lead scientists to these sites later on?

How totally expected, because if they did so, then it would be actual scientific proof. But they don't because they know it is fake.

 

[milkweed]

I have a hard time believing someone can see a penis is circumcised at what looks to be about 50 yards. But who knows? Maybe the head of that species of primate is more exposed than others.

Bigfoot looks like a man in a gorilla costume because that's what we are used to seeing--men in gorilla costumes. We don't get to see Bigfoot that often, so the assumption of a hoax is an easy one to make, albeit a biased one based on what we're used to seeing.

You have a hard time believing something that confounds what you want to be true. Your readily accept the video (posted by someone who wants to film a bigfoot) but reject his later conclusion. And its not just him who recants. It is a prior sighting (with video), a different person. Two people duped.

But you clearly understand people Do hoax with intent to deceive the general public. And one thing about all the bigfoot programs and talk is it teaches people how to better deceive with their attempts to hoax.

Skeptics will always remain skeptics. It's how many of them make a living. As for the bones, there are several eyewitness accounts of bigfoot creatures burying their corpses. So that would definitely explain why there's no bones.

The two people who doubt their own videos do not make there living by being skeptical of bigfoot. There are allegations of bigfoot burying their corpses. But no evidence.

 

[Magical Realist]

You have a hard time believing something that confounds what you want to be true. Your readily accept the video (posted by someone who wants to film a bigfoot) but reject his later conclusion. And its not just him who recants. It is a prior sighting (with video), a different person. Two people duped.

No..I was very clear on what I didn't believe. The two photographers claim to see a circumcised penis at 50 yds. I don't believe that. You can't even see a penis in the video.

But you clearly understand people Do hoax with intent to deceive the general public. And one thing about all the bigfoot programs and talk is it teaches people how to better deceive with their attempts to hoax.

I clearly understand it would take extraordinary effort and ambition to go out into the cold forests in a remote area dressed in a fur suit just to randomly hoax someone who might by chance see you. I don't doubt that there may be a few loons out there who would do this (there's one guy in a hairy suit that was hit by a car in Montana in fact). But this simply cannot account for all the videos and sightings and footprints and vocalizations we have of these creatures. And it definitely can't account for the report referred to in the OP in which bigfoot researchers were harassed over a 4 year period in their remote cabin by creatures precisely matching the characteristics of a Bigfoot.

The two people who doubt their own videos do not make there living by being skeptical of bigfoot. There are allegations of bigfoot burying their corpses. But no evidence.

Eyewitness reports ARE evidence. And who knows if those guys aren't making money. For all we know they were paid off by a skeptical magazine to retract their video. The dubious nature of their doubt concerning it certainly suggests something like that. They even describe it like it was something they only remembered seeing later. Like it suddenly came to them in a dream. lol! Right. Like a big fat check in the mail more like. Oh, and just now I noticed this guy Noah who is retracting the Yellow Top video as fake now wants you to see his new movie about it. Something smells fishy here.

http://yellowtopsightings.com/sightings.htm

 

[Kittamaru]

So then why don't they bag a Bigfoot, or dig up the grave they supposedly just saw it bury?

 

[billvon]

So then why don't they bag a Bigfoot?

Bigfeet are bulletproof and often invisible. I mean, everyone knows that.

 

[Kristoffer]

Bigfeet are bulletproof and often invisible. I mean, everyone knows that.

And if they sense a camera being pointed in their direction they go blurry.

 

[spidergoat]

But this simply cannot account for all the videos and sightings and footprints and vocalizations we have of these creatures.

I've said it before, lots of crappy evidence doesn't add up to good evidence.

harassed over a 4 year period in their remote cabin by creatures precisely matching the characteristics of a Bigfoot.

You can't say you know the characteristics of an undiscovered creature.

 

[milkweed]

No..I was very clear on what I didn't believe. The two photographers claim to see a circumcised penis at 50 yds. I don't believe that. You can't even see a penis in the video.

An estimate of 50 yards. Not a measurement. Context. 2 lengths of semi truck + trailer.

And both of their videos are after the sighting begins. See bigfoot. Get camera out. Begin filming a moving animal in brush.

I clearly understand it would take extraordinary effort and ambition to go out into the cold forests in a remote area dressed in a fur suit just to randomly hoax someone who might by chance see you. I don't doubt that there may be a few loons out there who would do this (there's one guy in a hairy suit that was hit by a car in Montana in fact).

Yet right here in your post you acknowledge an idiot doing just that. Half of your videos were roadside shots.

But this simply cannot account for all the videos and sightings and footprints and vocalizations we have of these creatures. And it definitely can't account for the report referred to in the OP in which bigfoot researchers were harassed over a 4 year period in their remote cabin by creatures precisely matching the characteristics of a Bigfoot.

But my original point was you are producing links/videos which are highly suspect. Your own sources on some come to the conclusion they were duped but you are dismissive of that portion. Another example from your post: Elk hunters. It is by a road so its not miles away in the wilderness. And they are hunters, in a truck, not alone and they run?? I've been to montana. Elk hunters are not chickenshits. Most of those guys drive around with gun racks in their back windows. Additionally, this video is ripped from another site, which is no longer listed as present and is a site of ripped videos. Now I didnt spend a lot of time trying to find the original source but neither did you. So again I am skeptical of its veracity.

Bigfoot researchers who spent 4 years being harrassed and produced nothing of note. No scat, hair, dna, pictures, bodies, bones. I skipped down to # 96 - 104. Blood splatters. Nope says third party lab. Hair samples. European humans says third party lab. One time I found FRESH bear tracks on a recently graded road. These tracks were less than one hour old. The thing that really surprised me was the claws didnt show. That is not typical but there is was. And it was a line of tracks. I could clearly see both front and back prints. I have also found prints occasionally where one will line up just perfect front/rear overlap ... I could see where someone might call it a bigfoot. If I would have had plaster of paris I could have called it a bigfoot too. I wouldnt have. But I could have. Could have gotten my 15 minutes of fame. Would have brought tourist dollars into town. But I know it wasnt a bigfoot because, again it was not a single track it was multiples that were obviously bear. I have never seen a grizzly track. Nor an alaskan brown bear. But I bet they are bigger....

Vocalizations:
Heres a page with multiple bear vocals.

http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pa...ication/29-vocalizations-a-body-language.html

2nd to last one is very similar to the samuri sounds. And this is a black bear, not a griz.

2nd one on the page is cubs in a den. However the accompanying text:

Adults make this sound with a deeper voice.

You could use the above to help you distinguish between mis-identification vs unknown.

Additionally the bigfoot vocalizations are sounds recorded without seeing the animal producing the noise. Owls make incredible ranges of noises. Growls and clicks. Screams. Loud. Unnerving if you dont know whats making the noise. Cougar screams are chilling (heard one once in the wild). They purr, growl and whistle (captive noises I've heard). Last summer while recording wolf howls something in the distance wasnt quite right. The person with me ID' it as a bobcat. And later that night as we departed, a bobber crossed the road and we caught a glimpse of it in the headlights and the location was very close to where we estimated the bobber calls origin. Yeah I know thats not a bigfoot but my untrained ears did not ID the bobber. Simply put, we have no idea whether we have documented all the noises/calls/territorial/mating calls of the animals we know exist in the wilds of N America.

Heres a video on the wolves. Listen from 38:52 - 41:55.

I point you to this video because if you listen to her Very Accurate description of the balance between predators and go back to some of those 'bigfoot' vocals you will hear the territory declarations between various species. Dogs barking in one area, coyotes answering from another, owls in other locations and the alleged bigfoot calls. And as we wolf call, it is common to get responses from other critters including owls, bear, bobcat, geese and swans. Again, we do not know if we have documented all the calls of the wild and correctly put them with the proper animal. Therefore one cannot assign a recording of a scream/howl out in the mountains of somewhere as a bigfoot. It can only be described as unknown.

 

[Kittamaru]

Animals make all kinds of freaky noises...

 

[Bells]

And if they sense a camera being pointed in their direction they go blurry.

Duh. It's called going stealth!

It's how the US were able to create stealth bombers.. They experimented on Bigfoot.

 

[Magical Realist]

An estimate of 50 yards. Not a measurement. Context. 2 lengths of semi truck + trailer.

And both of their videos are after the sighting begins. See bigfoot. Get camera out. Begin filming a moving animal in brush.



Yet right here in your post you acknowledge an idiot doing just that. Half of your videos were roadside shots.



But my original point was you are producing links/videos which are highly suspect. Your own sources on some come to the conclusion they were duped but you are dismissive of that portion. Another example from your post: Elk hunters. It is by a road so its not miles away in the wilderness. And they are hunters, in a truck, not alone and they run?? I've been to montana. Elk hunters are not chickenshits. Most of those guys drive around with gun racks in their back windows. Additionally, this video is ripped from another site, which is no longer listed as present and is a site of ripped videos. Now I didnt spend a lot of time trying to find the original source but neither did you. So again I am skeptical of its veracity.

Bigfoot researchers who spent 4 years being harrassed and produced nothing of note. No scat, hair, dna, pictures, bodies, bones. I skipped down to # 96 - 104. Blood splatters. Nope says third party lab. Hair samples. European humans says third party lab. One time I found FRESH bear tracks on a recently graded road. These tracks were less than one hour old. The thing that really surprised me was the claws didnt show. That is not typical but there is was. And it was a line of tracks. I could clearly see both front and back prints. I have also found prints occasionally where one will line up just perfect front/rear overlap ... I could see where someone might call it a bigfoot. If I would have had plaster of paris I could have called it a bigfoot too. I wouldnt have. But I could have. Could have gotten my 15 minutes of fame. Would have brought tourist dollars into town. But I know it wasnt a bigfoot because, again it was not a single track it was multiples that were obviously bear. I have never seen a grizzly track. Nor an alaskan brown bear. But I bet they are bigger....

Vocalizations:
Heres a page with multiple bear vocals.

http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pa...ication/29-vocalizations-a-body-language.html

2nd to last one is very similar to the samuri sounds. And this is a black bear, not a griz.

2nd one on the page is cubs in a den. However the accompanying text:


You could use the above to help you distinguish between mis-identification vs unknown.

Additionally the bigfoot vocalizations are sounds recorded without seeing the animal producing the noise. Owls make incredible ranges of noises. Growls and clicks. Screams. Loud. Unnerving if you dont know whats making the noise. Cougar screams are chilling (heard one once in the wild). They purr, growl and whistle (captive noises I've heard). Last summer while recording wolf howls something in the distance wasnt quite right. The person with me ID' it as a bobcat. And later that night as we departed, a bobber crossed the road and we caught a glimpse of it in the headlights and the location was very close to where we estimated the bobber calls origin. Yeah I know thats not a bigfoot but my untrained ears did not ID the bobber. Simply put, we have no idea whether we have documented all the noises/calls/territorial/mating calls of the animals we know exist in the wilds of N America.

Heres a video on the wolves. Listen from 38:52 - 41:55.

I point you to this video because if you listen to her Very Accurate description of the balance between predators and go back to some of those 'bigfoot' vocals you will hear the territory declarations between various species. Dogs barking in one area, coyotes answering from another, owls in other locations and the alleged bigfoot calls. And as we wolf call, it is common to get responses from other critters including owls, bear, bobcat, geese and swans. Again, we do not know if we have documented all the calls of the wild and correctly put them with the proper animal. Therefore one cannot assign a recording of a scream/howl out in the mountains of somewhere as a bigfoot. It can only be described as unknown.

So to cut to the chase, you're essentially claiming these various recordings of alleged Bigfoot can be explained as wolves, bears, coyotes, dogs, bobcats, geese, and owls all calling out together or in response to each other. I find that very unlikely. For one thing the recordings sound nothing like any of those creatures. And for another, if they were different animals, we could tell because they'd be coming from different directions at varying amplitude levels. Most people can distinguish separate calls made by different animals. Not to mention it is simply inconceivable that all these animals are located in the same location at the same time. Taken with the fact that many vocalizations accompany tree knocks as well as rock throwings, none of those animals fit the bill. And then we have audio analysis of the recordings. Here's some of those:

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/biology/kirlin.htm

More vocalizations. Clearly NOT a bear, wolf, or coyote:

http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Bigfoot_sounds_sound

And here's a database of 1,407 sightings in the state of Oregon alone. Hoax? I don't think so!

http://www.oregonbigfoot.com/database.php

 

[Kittamaru]

So to cut to the chase, you're essentially claiming these various recordings of alleged Bigfoot can be explained as wolves, bears, coyotes, dogs, bobcats, geese, and owls all calling out together or in response to each other. I find that very unlikely. For one thing the recordings sound nothing like any of those creatures. And for another, if they were different animals, we could tell because they'd be coming from different directions at varying amplitude levels. Most people can distinguish separate calls made by different animals. Not the mention it is simply inconceivable that all these animals are located in the same location at the same time. Taken with the fact that many vocalizations accompany tree knocks as well as rock throwings, none of those animals fit the bill. And then we have audio analysis of the recordings. Here's some of those:

No, cut to the actual chase - why don't these people, who claim to be witnessing Bigfoot burying a dead Bigfoot... go out and dig up one of these bodies and bring it back for science? It'd be the find of the millennium!

 

[billvon]

No evidence then for your claim...Ok. That's what I thought..

So you think apes can cause airplanes to crash! LOL! LOL!

 

[billvon]

Animals make all kinds of freaky noises...

So some animals imitate Bigfoot. Well, where do you think they LEARNED those bigfoot noises?

 

[Kristoffer]

So some animals imitate Bigfoot. Well, where do you think they LEARNED those bigfoot noises?

Chewbacca.

 

[Magical Realist]

Mike Wooley's Bigfoot encounter:

Encounter at the Oregon Caves:

 

[billvon]

Chewbacca.

What a silly claim. Chewbacca is neither invisible nor bulletproof, and he prefers bars in Mos Eisley to the forests of Oklahoma.

 

[milkweed]

So to cut to the chase, you're essentially claiming these various recordings of alleged Bigfoot can be explained as wolves, bears, coyotes, dogs, bobcats, geese, and owls all calling out together or in response to each other.

I am saying I/you do not know what made some of those noises but we Do Not know people have documented all KNOWN N. American wildlife vocalizations. You cannot declare "I dont know what this is, and its doesnt match what we do know therefore it is bigfoot vocalizations". And there have been so many scams that until someone brings back a body, it is simply a mis-identified known animal or a hoax (imo).

And then we have audio analysis of the recordings. Here's some of those:

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/biology/kirlin.htm

More vocalizations. Clearly NOT a bear, wolf, or coyote:

http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Bigfoot_sounds_sound

And here's a database of 1,407 sightings in the state of Oregon alone. Hoax? I don't think so!

http://www.oregonbigfoot.com/database.php

Link 1. Show me where they declare those vocals as bigfoot.
Link 2. None of the soundfiles played for me.
Link 3. Yeah ok same old same old.

When I see things like the oregonbigfoot link I often read 'sightings' that are in areas I am familiar with.
Hoaxes. Some of them. Most of them honestly think they saw/heard something else, just like those guys from colorado who later think they were hoaxed. Lots of those reports say... I dont know what it was but heres what I [think I] saw. And you want to believe bigfoot exists so you are not skeptical enough when you encounter these reports. And it does not help your position when you continue to post suspect videos without stepping back and saying "wait a minute" to yourself.

 

[Magical Realist]

I am saying I/you do not know what made some of those noises but we Do Not know people have documented all KNOWN N. American wildlife vocalizations. You cannot declare "I dont know what this is, and its doesnt match what we do know therefore it is bigfoot vocalizations". And there have been so many scams that until someone brings back a body, it is simply a mis-identified known animal or a hoax (imo).

Your ability to use words seems overly impeded now. But from what I can decipher, you are saying vocalizations of an animal that don't match any known animal don't entail it is from a Bigfoot. What praytell DOES it entail? What howls and whoops like a primate, chatters like an angry Samurai, roars like a lion, whistles, and shrieks like a madman? Bigfoot! That's what the recordings show, and that's what we know about it. When you come up with another explanation besides a joint chorus of bears, wolves, owls, and geese, let me know, ok?

Link 1. Show me where they declare those vocals as bigfoot.

He says it in the very beginning of the interview: "And you believe this is Bigfoot? "Yes I do", he says.

Link 2. None of the soundfiles played for me.

They work fine for me.

Link 3. Yeah ok same old same old.

And here I thought you openminded about this.

When I see things like the oregonbigfoot link I often read 'sightings' that are in areas I am familiar with. Hoaxes. Some of them.

What evidence do you have they are hoaxes? Surely you can back up your claim.

Most of them honestly think they saw/heard something else, just like those guys from colorado who later think they were hoaxed. Lots of those reports say... I dont know what it was but heres what I [think I] saw.

Right..noone knows what Bigfoot is yet. So most people DO say they don't know what it was. Doesn't mean they are denying they had the experience.

And you want to believe bigfoot exists so you are not skeptical enough when you encounter these reports. And it does not help your position when you continue to post suspect videos without stepping back and saying "wait a minute" to yourself.

Unlike you I look at the evidence as given, and weigh it against the possibility that it is consistently the result of hoaxing. As I've already stated, there's just too many eyewitness accounts by totally credible witnesses, including the 4 year study quoted in the OP, to dismiss it all as hoaxing. That borders on conspiracy theory, which is a road to crazyville I'm not willing to go down just to deny the existence of Bigfoot.

Here's something to ponder: take that creekside Bigfoot in Northern California filmed by Patterson /Gimli. That very famous video from the 1960's. Now you may say that was a hoax. But further study reveals that the small town near there, as well as the surrounding area there, has reported hundreds of similar sightings over the decades. The area is a known Bigfoot hotspot. And there are many others of these across North America. So while we might attribute that video to a hoax, if it WAS, why is that very area so full of sightings since then? A hoaxter could not possibly be behind so many sightings over such a long period of time. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Daecon]

"Deny the existence of bigfoot"?

There's no real conclusive evidence to prove the existence of bigfoot, so it's not so much "deny" as "acknowledge that there's no conclusive evidence to prove its existence".

But from what I can decipher, you are saying vocalizations of an animal that don't match any known animal don't entail it is from a Bigfoot. What praytell DOES it entail? What howls and whoops like a primate, chatters like an angry Samurai, roars like a lion, whistles, and shrieks like a madman? Bigfoot!

A parrot.