Answer the question.

origin said:
This is just another example of how your limited understanding of simple physics concepts leads to your meltdowns when someone tries to expand the concept beyond your tiny sliver of undertanding
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And yet, that's all you got! :rolleyes:

You don't want to try to explain it to me, do you?
 
billvon said:
So a fully charged EV battery, sitting there doing zero work, contains zero energy.
Cool. I will just get in my Leaf, drive away - and blow your mind to bits.
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Drive away? That sounds like work.

Care to explain how you'll drive away without doing work?
 
Motor Daddy said:
Drive away? That sounds like work.
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Exactly!

Motordaddy makes an instantaneous (zero time) measurement of the battery. Doesn't matter what he sees on his meter - Zero energy=any power*zero time. Therefore he concludes that the battery has zero energy.

Then billvon gets in and drives off for an hour or so, drawing 10 kilowatt-hours from a battery with zero energy! Motordaddy's head explodes and his brains rain down on the empty road!
 
billvon said:
Exactly!

Motordaddy makes an instantaneous (zero time) measurement of the battery. Doesn't matter what he sees on his meter - Zero energy=any power*zero time. Therefore he concludes that the battery has zero energy.

Then billvon gets in and drives off for an hour or so, drawing 10 kilowatt-hours from a battery with zero energy! Motordaddy's head explodes and his brains rain down on the empty road!
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Your misunderstanding is stupendous!! Your ignorance knows no bounds!

Energy=power*time! Duh?

Your display of your ignorance of what power is, is awesome! Great entertainment for all!
 
Motor Daddy said:
Your misunderstanding is stupendous!! Your ignorance knows no bounds! Energy=power*time! Duh? Your display of your ignorance of what power is, is awesome! Great entertainment for all!
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I guess your head really did explode! Now say "duh?" a few more times to make that image perfect.
 
billvon said:
I guess your head really did explode! Now say "duh?" a few more times to make that image perfect.
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Learn what distance, time, force, acceleration, work, torque, power, energy are, then come talk to me. Until then you're making a fool of yourself.
 
billvon said:
I guess your head really did explode! Now say "duh?" a few more times to make that image perfect.
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I pointed out MD limitations and he asked me if I would like to explain energy to him. Of course not, it would be a waste of energy.;)

Fun trying trying to expand MD horizons, ain't it!

MD has the worst of mixtures; ignorance and arrogance.
 
origin said:
I pointed out MD limitations and he asked me if I would like to explain energy to him. Of course not, it would be a waste of energy.;)

Fun trying trying to expand MD horizons, ain't it!

MD has the worst of mixtures; ignorance and arrogance.
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More like knowledge and sharing. But your perception is skewed by your science religion.
 
Motor Daddy said:
Learn what distance, time, force, acceleration, work, torque, power, energy are, then come talk to me.
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"Zero energy=any power*zero time." That's the level you're operating at. So I can try talking to you, but until you're willing to admit that you're not always right, it will be like trying to teach a pig to sing.
 
billvon said:
"Zero energy=any power*zero time." That's the level you're operating at. So I can try talking to you, but until you're willing to admit that you're not always right, it will be like trying to teach a pig to sing.
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It's easy to prove me wrong when I am using standard definitions of the terms. Since you understand the meaning of those terms (such as work, power, and energy) then certainly you can strategically use razor sharp accuracy to show me why I am wrong.

Prove how a gallon of gas has a spread out energy that's not available and not measurable. Prove it! Just tell me how much work the gas is doing in the can.
 
Motor Daddy said:
Since you understand the meaning of those terms (such as work, power, and energy) then certainly you can strategically use razor sharp accuracy to show me why I am wrong.
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Simple. From inspection, your formula would "prove" that a fully charged EV battery has zero energy. That is clearly not the case.
Note that the formula is fine; you are just misapplying it.

Prove how a gallon of gas has a spread out energy that's not available and not measurable. Prove it!
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Sure. From Wikipedia:

"Heat capacity, or thermal capacity, is the measurable physical quantity of heat energy required to change the temperature of an object by a given amount. The SI unit of heat capacity is joule per kelvin."

How do we calculate this? Simple: joules/(kilogram * deg C.) The thermal constant for gasoline is 2.22 kJ/kg*K. That is the total available heat energy in the gasoline. It is spread out and is present in the kinetic energy of the molecules. That gives you about .5 kilowatt-hours of potentially available ENERGY (not power.)

What can we do with this? Not much. If you had a very cold heat sink you could run a heat engine and extract some of that energy. Due to the second law of thermodynamics (specifically Carnot's Theorem) you will never extract all of it.
Just tell me how much work the gas is doing in the can.
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None. Now pick your brains up and figure out why that makes sense.
 
billvon said:
Simple. From inspection, your formula would "prove" that a fully charged EV battery has zero energy. That is clearly not the case.
Note that the formula is fine; you are just misapplying it.
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Wrong again, it's you that's claiming zero work equals some energy. Bull!


billvon said:
Sure. From Wikipedia:

"Heat capacity, or thermal capacity, is the measurable physical quantity of heat energy required to change the temperature of an object by a given amount. The SI unit of heat capacity is joule per kelvin."
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So it is in fact measurable!! Go figure! Some were claiming that it's not measurable... :rolleyes:

So..billvon, what object changed temp, the gas? The can?
 
Motor Daddy said:
Wrong again, it's you that's claiming zero work equals some energy. Bull!
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OK. Here's a question for you.
A battery is fully charged. It can output 24 kilowatt-hours of energy. It is currently outputting nothing. How much electrical energy is it storing?
So..billvon, what object changed temp, the gas? The can?
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Nothing. The can and gas remain the same temperature, and the available energy remains the same as well.
 
billvon said:
OK. Here's a question for you.
A battery is fully charged. It can output 24 kilowatt-hours of energy. It is currently outputting nothing. How much electrical energy is it storing?
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"Storing" and "it can" are words best used for potential energy...but, you know we're not talking about your fantasies in the future, right? We are talking about measured real world work that was done, not your fantasy land dream world.

billvon said:
Nothing. The can and gas remain the same temperature, and the available energy remains the same as well.
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Again, we aren't talking about available, stand-by, on-hold, potential, visions of the future, we are talking about real world measured results.

Do you know the difference between what happened in the past that was measured, and what might potentially happen in the future?? Apparently not!
 
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